Spirit Binding In Syrcus Tower Needs To Stop

http://i.imgur.com/mrNvdbY.png

This has been happening all day. This needs to get fixed. Make it so they can't drop below the required gear score when they enter please. So many wipes because of this.

there was a topic about spirit binding, according to the dev post about this, we can freely kick these people, hopefully they sort out the system, but we can kick them with no ramification, the more people that start doing this, the more deterrence people will be spirit bonding gear like this.

It needs to stop everywhere, whole thing needs to be scrapped
The entire materia system is the sort of pure RNG and grindfest "content" you'd expect to see in some garbage pay2win game

There are very few DPS checks so I don't see how spiritbonding is causing wipes. Pretty sure incompentant players are the fault of that. I usually ask the group first if it's ok if I can spiritbond or not. No answer or they say go ahead/don't mind then I do it. If people say they prefer not, then I don't.

ST is so easy easy though. That said, wth is that gear they're spiritbonding? Is that a legionary visor? Why? This looks like that player just equipped whatever garbage they had that would fit those slots. Is that a gathering doublet? I don't mind so much when people spiritbond ilvl 55+ stuff that's actually time consuming to do elsewhere, but this is ridiculous.

That doesn't look like SB gear lol..

Depending on what some of those gear pieces actually are, it's entirely possible that it's exactly i80 average.
I see Thyrus with red orb meaning i100 for sure, 3 items that are either weathered daystar or daystar (upgraded), and hero's ring...
A quick calculation based on estimates for the rest leads to the conclusion that it's probably a setup that actually does meet i80 requirement.

Unless a significant portion of your party, and the other parties, is filled with people like that, the wipes are unfortunately more likely due to people not knowing what to do rather than the equipment they wear.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Depending on what some of those gear pieces actually are, it's entirely possible that it's exactly i80 average.
I see Thyrus with red orb meaning i100 for sure, 3 items that are either weathered daystar or daystar (upgraded), and hero's ring...
A quick calculation based on estimates for the rest leads to the conclusion that it's probably a setup that actually does meet i80 requirement.

Unless a significant portion of your party, and the other parties, is filled with people like that, the wipes are unfortunately more likely due to people not knowing what to do rather than the equipment they wear.

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Theres no way in hell that setup makes the minimum requirement. Besides he entered in high allagan coat and all 100 rings and rest i90s and 100s. He swapped just before we started the first boss. with his HP pool being at 2.8k and the mass AoE from the first boss, he couldn't stay alive causing a bunch of issues.

If they still meet the item level requirements for the instance then who are you to tell people what gear they can't use. I don't see a problem it's an easy raid.

I'm not sure if that is even a Spiritbonding set.

Let's take a look at what this gear probably is:

Thyrus Atma/Animus: i100 weapon, essential for not being utterly useless when spiritbinding.
Legionary Visor: Not even convertable. Why would you even spiritbind this?
Crafting/Gathering Doublet(?): A chest piece with no Mind or Vitality? This person is an idiot.
Daystar Gloves: Okay, something useful.
Demagogue Rope Belt(?): Not convertable.
Pants: I'm not positive of their identity. If they are Warlock's Tights, they are not convertable. If they are Harlequin Tights, they are convertable.
Aetherial Shoes?: Those things appear to be i40 Aetherial Boreskin Crakows. Wow.
Choker: At first glance, this appears to be a Mythril Gorget or Choker... and neither of them have Mind.
Daystar Earring: Or is it Evenstar? I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
Aetherial Wristlet: These are probably lower than i40, but we can hope that they're i45 Aetherial Electrum Wristlets.
Rings: Let's just hope that they're both Mind accessories.

Conclusions

1. Even if we assume i100 for all Soldiery items and the highest possible iLvl of unknown slots, the average item level of this character is 65 or 66. If we assume that Soldiery items are i110, it's 68. They switched to this set after entering the instance.
2. Of all of their equipment, only 4 items are guaranteed to be convertable and one other may or may not be.

So, this person was not attempting to spiritbind in any significant fashion. This is a troll, pure and simple. Kicking is the correct choice when you see something this inane.

How to Spiritbind in Instances Without Pissing Off Everyone and Their Mother

1. Only ever spiritbind Accessories in dungeons.
2. Never spiritbind Accessories that don't contain your main stat(ie. MNK binding Dex accessories. Don't do it).
3. If someone gets nervous and asks you to put your "actual" gear on, just do it.
4. Never use a set that is a lower iLvl than the dungeon requirement. That requirement is there for a reason.
5. Switch to your better gear for every boss fight.
6. Just to add to point number 2, never ever ever spiritbind gathering/crafting gear in a dungeon.

I love the responses of "its an easy raid" etc, yeah easy for you because people are carrying you to get your gear spiritbonded. Spiritbond on your own time or to the point its not hindering the raid and time of 23 other people.

I do spiritbonding but I only use accessories so it doesnt drop me to low to where I'm a liability. O.o

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Originally Posted by Donjo

How to Spiritbind in Instances Without Pissing Off Everyone and Their Mother

1. Only ever spiritbind Accessories in dungeons.
2. Never spiritbind Accessories that don't contain your main stat(ie. MNK binding Dex accessories. Don't do it).
3. If someone gets nervous and asks you to put your "actual" gear on, just do it.
4. Never use a set that is a lower iLvl than the dungeon requirement. That requirement is there for a reason.
5. Switch to your better gear for every boss fight.
6. Just to add to point number 2, never ever ever spiritbind gathering/crafting gear in a dungeon.

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This, been going into CT with full i110 left side and turquoise accessories (mind) for a while, and the only comment, that I have received about my gear was "wow, stop being so "undergeared" for this"

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

Theres no way in hell that setup makes the minimum requirement. Besides he entered in high allagan coat and all 100 rings and rest i90s and 100s. He swapped just before we started the first boss. with his HP pool being at 2.8k and the mass AoE from the first boss, he couldn't stay alive causing a bunch of issues.

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That was based on a cursory glance at the pic. A closer look shows that he could only reach around i70.
Change a little, he'd still be as useless but would meet entrance requirement.
However, if there was only one person like that in your party, you still shouldn't have ended up wiping if everyone else was doing their parts right.
And for cases like this, use vote kick for harassment.

In short, only enforcing minimum ilevel after entrance would not do anything to solve the problem. You'd have to start adding role based stat requirements and enforcement to solve it.

whys it need to stop? if you can enter the raid means your good enough. im gonna start doing that no point wasting money on repairs when i can make pretty much all the armor you can craft atleast i can get some materia out of it.

you cant just kick someone for following the rules, if you do i hope you get whats coming from SE. quit using the DF if you wanna be the boss.

Or it could be admitted that maybe spiritbonding isn't the best system to introduce into a game and make materia (only) obtainable via other means.

Don't get me wrong, Syrcus Tower IS an an easy raid, and there's no way that a raid is wiping due to some guy spiritbonding (for the record, I don't spiritbond - not in dungeons, not anywhere - I hate spiritbonding), as it's all about addressing mechanics (which people are notoriously bad at in this game for some reason).

Ironic that dev team won't introduce arguably necessary elements such as dps meters so people can see how they're doing and improve - all on the grounds "it will incite conflict between players" - and then they create (and keep) a system in the game that ACTIVELY ENCOURAGES players to wear trash gear when playing with strangers, as if there's no way that would ever incite conflict with anyone.

Why not just disable gear switching when inside?

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Originally Posted by indira

whys it need to stop? if you can enter the raid means your good enough. im gonna start doing that no point wasting money on repairs when i can make pretty much all the armor you can craft atleast i can get some materia out of it.

you cant just kick someone for following the rules, if you do i hope you get whats coming from SE. quit using the DF if you wanna be the boss.

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read my post on top, SE has said we can kick these people with no ramifications as its part of battle strat.

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Originally Posted by indira

whys it need to stop? if you can enter the raid means your good enough. im gonna start doing that no point wasting money on repairs when i can make pretty much all the armor you can craft atleast i can get some materia out of it.

you cant just kick someone for following the rules, if you do i hope you get whats coming from SE. quit using the DF if you wanna be the boss.

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If you can meet dps requirements, etc. in that crafted gear and not cause any trouble to the party, fine.
If not, that's clearly intentional and is a form of harassment for which you can and hopefully would be kicked.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

If they still meet the item level requirements for the instance then who are you to tell people what gear they can't use. I don't see a problem it's an easy raid.

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actually we can, its the groups right to point out a specific person is using for example crafting gear on a monk for example, its in our right to do so, and they should follow the groups wishes who are not only following the rules, actually doing the content properly.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

read my post on top, SE has said we can kick these people with no ramifications as its part of battle strat.

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no you can't the post you're refering to was misinterpreted by the players to the OP about the PF group they joined. you are not allowed to and will be punished.

nah, you got it wrong, the dev said its up the us as a playerbase what we want out of the group and decide for our selves, and they will not step in for any kind of dispute, so if we dont like it, we can remove people at will. What YOU are trying to do is scaremonger players and give them no rights or able to speak up on the matter, abuse means insults, as people want to do the content properly they have a right to bring up concerns, and if the group feels players arent being part of the team or such, its the groups decision on the matter, this is player dispute.

Unless I misread the post, OP mentioned they entered with great gear, then changed to a much, much lower iLevel.

I'd hate to see what happens if say two or all three tanks tried something like this. Boy would there likely be a near insta-rage...

The Dev's response was the party's choice. If the party doesn't it want it they can ask you to change back. if you don't change back they can kick you. however if the party just kicks the spirit bonder without ever asking them to switch, then the party is violating the kick policy.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

nah, you got it wrong, the dev said its up the us as a playerbase what we want out of the group and decide for our selves, and they will not step in for any kind of dispute, so if we dont like it, we can remove people at will.

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"Although we understand the impact that is caused after being removed from a duty finder group, please be aware that Game Masters will be unable to take action if a group member has been removed due to a player dispute, or if their game style differs (i.e. skipping in-game cutscenes, disagreement on using specific boss encounter tactics etc). To avoid such incidents in the future, we would advise to speak with either the group leader or fellow party members when joining a new group to discuss any specific party restrictions that need to be addressed (i.e. any loot priorities, allowing group members to watch cutscenes etc)." - Game developers


you mean that one? where it also says you can kick people over loot? lol good one.

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Originally Posted by indira

whys it need to stop? if you can enter the raid means your good enough. im gonna start doing that no point wasting money on repairs when i can make pretty much all the armor you can craft atleast i can get some materia out of it.

you cant just kick someone for following the rules, if you do i hope you get whats coming from SE. quit using the DF if you wanna be the boss.

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Because you can enter the raid with your normal gear, once inside switch to ilvl 10 if you want to. Ilvl requirement is onyl there to be able to enter. no checks after.

You people are the reason we can't have nice things.

If people are spiritbinding stuff, so what? As long as their ilvl meets the ilvl of the dungeon, there shouldn't be a problem. Considering stuff like Novus requires a ton of materia, everyone should be spiritbinding in this dungeon. And really, this dungeon is very mechanics-heavy. The only DPS check in the entire raid is Xande's Starfall, and 9 times out of 10, when it really matters, Starfall can be LB'd, but no one ever LBs Starfall because reasons.

I've only ever died once or twice in ST, and that was largely because either both of my healers were dead, or one was dead and the other one was too busy Ruin-spamming adds. I mean hell, I have ragequit ST because of people like OP shitting on other players more often than I have wiped in ST.

Grow the hell up.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

You people are the reason we can't have nice things.

If people are spiritbinding stuff, so what? As long as their ilvl meets the ilvl of the dungeon, there shouldn't be a problem. Considering stuff like Novus requires a ton of materia, everyone should be spiritbinding in this dungeon. And really, this dungeon is very mechanics-heavy. The only DPS check in the entire raid is Xande's Starfall, and 9 times out of 10, when it really matters, Starfall can be LB'd, but no one ever LBs Starfall because reasons.


Grow the hell up.

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Youve said in here, that people that dislike spiritbonders in grouped parties like ST are the reason why you cant have nice things, well why cant you do spirit bonding on your own or find a dedicated spirit bonding party in a 4 man yourself, this way, you get to spirit bond and not annoy anyone else, its your own time, effort and pain, no one else.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

You people are the reason we can't have nice things.

Grow the hell up.

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So you would be fine with the tanks switching to level 35 gear because they want ot SB materia 2s? The healers switching to crafting/gathering gear? The melee DPS switching to MND/INT gear? casters switching to low level STR/DEX gear?

If one person in the 24 switches to full crafting/low level gear to SB. Then why not the rest of the 23 people switch to the same too.

That would go very well wouldn't it.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

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Marry me~

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

you mean that one? where it also says you can kick people over loot? lol good one.

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Yes and no, that quote specifically mentions player strategy, a few weeks ago in a topic about SBing Camate said gear was part of player strategy, now connect the dots.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2214311

For the slow ones, gear = strategy, strategy = decided by the group and GMs will not intervene.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Marry me~



Yes and no, that quote specifically mentions player strategy, a few weeks ago in a topic about SBing Camate said gear was part of player strategy, now connect the dots.

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he said it was part of it for PF that is my point everyone says it was about DF he was telling the OP if they join a PF or make a PF they have the right to choose what gear they can use and all that jazz it was not refering to DF and random groups.

it's simple in DF solo queue (or not full pre-made) you have no power you can't force a random player to play the way you want. in a pf/full pre made you have the right to tell people what they can roll on and what they can wear.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

he said it was part of it for PF that is my point everyone says it was abotu DF he was telling the OP if they join a PF or make a PF they have the right to choose what gear they can use and all that jazz it was not refering to DF and random groups.

it's simple in DF solo queue (or not full pre-made) you have no power you can't force a random player to play the way you want. in a pf/full pre made you have the right to tell people what they can roll on and what they can wear.

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just a curious question to this, you say people who enter DF have no right over other players in how they play, but said random player you are defending has all the power in the world to dictate or have power over the other players and they cant do anything about it ?
each player makes a contribution and puts forth effort, real effort expects respect in return.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

he said it was part of it for PF that is my point everyone says it was about DF he was telling the OP if they join a PF or make a PF they have the right to choose what gear they can use and all that jazz it was not refering to DF and random groups.

it's simple in DF solo queue (or not full pre-made) you have no power you can't force a random player to play the way you want. in a pf/full pre made you have the right to tell people what they can roll on and what they can wear.

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"Although we understand the impact that is caused after being removed from a duty finder group"

The first post refers to DF, the second post also refers to DF.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

"Although we understand the impact that is caused after being removed from a duty finder group"

The first post refers to DF, the second post also refers to DF.

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we would advise to speak with either the group leader or fellow party members when joining a new group to discuss any specific party restrictions that need to be addressed (i.e. any loot priorities, allowing group members to watch cutscenes etc)." - Game developers

this also tells me you have the right to tell me what i can and cannot roll on.

i am assuming you didn't read the OP that camate replied to. the op joined a PF that was SB and was replying directly to them.

you have no power in the DF unless you have a pre made party.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Why not just disable gear switching when inside?

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Because that would suck for those few couple times I forgot to repair my weapon and luckily had a primal weapon on me I could switch to.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So you would be fine with the tanks switching to level 35 gear because they want ot SB materia 2s? The healers switching to crafting/gathering gear? The melee DPS switching to MND/INT gear? casters switching to low level STR/DEX gear?

If one person in the 24 switches to full crafting/low level gear to SB. Then why not the rest of the 23 people switch to the same too.

That would go very well wouldn't it.

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I am a tank and I often go Main Tank anyway, so as long as I get healed the adequate amount, I don't give a crap how many people I carry because my objective is to clear the dungeon, not police the crap out of my party members' gear choices.

The reason I feel I have to ragequit is because, 50% of the time I go into ST, I get this one asshole who thinks it's acceptable behavior to bitch everyone else out for being incompotent, that guy is in a different alliance in the raid, and I can't even blist that person. It's unacceptable behavior and I won't stand for it.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

You people are the reason we can't have nice things.

If people are spiritbinding stuff, so what? As long as their ilvl meets the ilvl of the dungeon, there shouldn't be a problem.

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Probably the most logical point in this thread. If you meet the ilvl requirement then why does it matter? So much whining in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Escadora

Probably the most logical point in this thread. If you meet the ilvl requirement then why does it matter? So much whining in this thread.

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dunno about you, but the post you quoted is the one thats whining the most, most others are having a calm debate.

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Originally Posted by Escadora

Probably the most logical point in this thread. If you meet the ilvl requirement then why does it matter? So much whining in this thread.

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until that mindset is spread across the whole ST and everyone is in the raid with crafting gear even though they meet the "ilvl requirement". Were you the person in High School that when assigned a group project with other classmates you made them do all the work which was double the effort since you brought little to nothing to the table and was able to get the credit for it and own beneficial gain even though you did practically nothing.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

angry holier than thou ranting

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Making the ilvl requirement doesn't matter if you're doing it with gear that has no relevant stats to your class.

I agree that there's no reason to cause a scene if you're succeeding in spite of people using inappropriate gear, but if your group is failing because of it I don't think it's out of line to demand these people put on their proper gear or get out.