How to learn how to dps?

In a recent interview, Yoshida explained that they have no plans to ever introduce a dps meter, because they are worried it would incite conflicts between players.

That aside, I have an honest question:

How does the dev team expect players to learn how to dps effectively? It's well and good that they want to someday introduce a training dummy that you have to pass "dps check" in order to "kill", but will this really give solid information on how a dps can better play their role? It won't tell you if you're missing too much in Binding Coil, or Second Coil, or Primals, or anything. Missing is kind of a big deal. It would be nice to at least know the ACC caps for everything. Maybe see your own dps (AS WELL AS the median dps of the party, or the expected average you need to get going in order to beat the content). I mean, I'd rather a real dps meter, but some kind of meaningful information would be nice.

How would you know how much damage you're doing? If you're doing less well than others? If you're missing or not? It's interesting for Yoshida to praise folks for figuring out this or that about whether or not a particular build is effective, but really there's no way for them to do that without a parser. Well, certainly not efficiently. One has to imagine most of these folks aren't just writing down every attack and adding it up, especially with the amount of attacks needed to really figure anything out.

I understand about not wanting to incite conflict between players, but honestly that will happen anyway. Ignoring the positives in an attempt to shut out ALL negatives will still result in negatives, because nothing is going to be perfect. Instead we should strive for what makes the most sense.

There are definitely going to be people with i100 or even i110 average gear who are still doing less dps than someone who is in i80 gear but knows what they're doing. How would they even know they are doing poorly? A lot of these folks are simply going to think they are amazing, and are going to drag down any party where the focus of the content requires any kind of a dps check.

Will this not in itself incite conflicts? As folks cast about to blame whoever is not doing enough dps without even knowing who isn't pulling their weight?

Its all a conspiracy to make more people go tank or heal.

I don't feel like DPSing in this game is complicated. The class quests describe what's important (PGL tells you to keep GL up and how to do that, THM talks about switching between UI and AF and how and why, etc.) and through playing it should be obvious what's effective. Some of the nuances may escape most players (for instance I'm never sure if I should open with DoTs on MNK or put GL up asap and then apply them fully buffed) but a great disparity shouldn't exist if people pay attention and use some sense. As such, I don't think they can do much to train the senseless to DPS effectively, though I rarely come across someone that's just outright bad at DPSing.

Anyone who puts in minimal effort could check the combat log vs potency and do some math. Or compare threat vs the equally geared players of the same classes. Or read a guide.

Even without a dps meter you can optimize dps by pure theory craft and combat logs. (parsers make estimations half the time this is the better route anyway).

People unwilling to do this minimal effort, lazy/bads/very casual players, are who he is protecting. It makes sense, they are probably as much or more revenue for SE then anyone else, and it does make it harder to harass obviously bad players. It is not very effective in the end though. While it does mean pseudo elitists will have trouble calling people out it does not stop anyone with minimal knowledge of game mechanics from doing so.

As long as a combat log / threat meter exists. I will tell people when they are under performing and abandon any duties I find to be a waste of my own time. This is all without the mention of any parse or dps meter.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Anyone who puts in minimal effort could check the combat log vs potency and do some math. Or compare threat vs the equally geared players of the same classes. Or read a guide.

Even without a dps meter you can optimize dps by pure theory craft and combat logs. (parsers make estimations half the time this is the better route anyway).

People unwilling to do this minimal effort, lazy/bads/very casual players, are who he is protecting. It makes sense, they are probably as much or more revenue for SE then anyone else, and it does make it harder to harass obviously bad players. It is not very effective in the end though. While it does mean pseudo elitists will have trouble calling people out it does not stop anyone with minimal knowledge of game mechanics from doing so.

As long as a combat log / threat meter exists. I will tell people when they are under performing and abandon any duties I find to be a waste of my own time. This is all without the mention of any parse or dps meter.

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Yeah, it's not as though you need a parser to spot a poor DPS. I've seen a BLM using Freeze of all things for aoe damage, MNKs and DRGs who apparently can't tell a mobs rear from it's face, and tanks who are somehow blind to the incredibly obvious flashing dotted lines indicating the next skill in their combo. The latter example actually resulted in me tanking the entirety of Dzaemel Darkhold on MNK (somehow even the final boss that requires the DPS to attack crystals for large chunks of time). I'll enjoy the DPS meter on training dummies when/ if it's released, but don't expect bad players to bother.

I maximized all of my dps jobs over time by utilizing a training dummy to test out combos and making a separate tab for my combat chart. After each encounter in a new area, I copy and past it into a notepad so that I can see what I'm doing right and wrong. A parser can do that too, and give you numbers that they already add up, but don't forget that parsers only tell you part of the story, and on top of that, that lack of information doesn't help. A parser for instance, doesn't tell you what direction you were facing, or your distance from a mob, these are drastically important to so many DD classes at the moment that a parser is more of a hinderance.

Your combat log isn't going to tell you how much DoTs do, so it's already a worthless test.

As DPS, we have one job, to do damage. You can tell a bad tank by mobs hitting everyone else. You can tell a bad healer by people not getting healed... DPS, you can be carried and nobody will ever know. Then you have timed parts of fights. And you keep failing. Why? Well, clearly at least one of your DPS isn't doing the damage you need to be able to make that kill... But let's keep holding hands and banging our heads against the wall.

Parsing damage lets you see where your weak points are, where you need improvement. And the competitiveness of it tends to make your better players play even better.

The difference between DPS and MPH is that we don't call Cars MPH but we call Damage Dealers DPS.

As if you haven't been playing video games your whole life...
You do the same thing in all the games. Figure out what the skills do with which buttons and go kill/ collect stuff.

So really we have all been Dps, healers and tanks for a very long time.

Whether or not your combat log shows the dot damage, you can easily pay attention to floating text and judge that separately a parser wont give you accurate information on dots or hots either, I've never gotten accurate data from them when I used them in the past. I've gotten far more reliable data using a training dummy and pausing, watching the floating text as dots are timed to the internal timer in game, and learning to time with that makes more difference than what your dots are doing along, learning the tick time helps more as any dot adds to dps. It's that simple.

I'm more worried about how they go about teaching people to DPS, if it's just something in the beginning of the game it's completely laughable since you change how you DPS almost every new skill you get. Honestly if I didn't research my class ahead of time I wouldn't know a thing about it because I, probably like a lot of people, didn't really pay attention to the job quest at all. Plus some of the optimal rotations aren't exactly as clear cut without a bit of research like the Perfect Balance Starter Rotation or Dragoon Burst Rotation, research that not everyone is willing to do or even know where to look for.