Thoughts from a PvP game Veteran.

To whom it may concern;
First off I would like to say that for a PvE game that added PvP, SE has done a very good job for their second installation of PvP (Frontlines; a Battle Ground Scenario), and I am looking forward to more PvP Scenarios.

I've played mostly PvP centered games. Dark Age of Camelot (Mordred: Sin Vida Represent!), Warhammer Online, and a handful of games that had PvP servers in them. The two I mentioned by name however are the most significant as they were Realm vs Relm games where PvP was center stage and PvE was secondary. These games had a several of challenges to overcome win the balancing of the the PvP between classes and such. But sense it was their focus they were mostly addressed quickly.

Class Balancing is very hard. I have noticed that in FFXIV the classes are semi balanced. Though some classed are more "OP" as people have been calling them in PvP as they have abilities which are easily spammed, and take little effort and they can dance around line of sighting enemies easily, yes I'm looking at you bards. This wouldn't be much of an issue is there was less of a chance that archer shots (other then silence obviously) did not stop casters from casting.
On that note the only things that should stop a spell from going off is movement, stun, silence, sleep, (insert any CC I forgot to list), frankly casters have a huge disadvantage in the current PvP system. Any Melee DPS or Archer can attack non-stop while line of sighting the caster stopping 99% of their abilities. This needs to be addressed. Either by adding a interruption rate threshold or resistance or something. High Mind or High Int = lower % of being interrupted.

Which leads me in to the next thing, which is something that even the mighty WoW (gosh I hate that game) has acknowledged in PvP which is the needed diminishing returns for Crowd Control Abilities. This can be accomplished a few ways. 1 is to add a parameter to characters so that (lets pick sleep) if they have been slept they are immune to sleep for X time or the next sleep will only last for 50% longer. Sleep was just an example but it gets the point across. There is already a mechanic in the game which works likes this. Virus/Anti-virus.

Another thread mentioned the whole line of sight issue for casters so I will only touch lightly on it here; Line of Sight for COMPLETION of the cast needs to be removed or changes so that only WALLs prevent the cast from completing. I'm sorry but it is true, the idea that a melee dps or archer or anyone for that matter can break LoS so easy is very sad and makes for very frustrated mages.

Scenario make up: now this is going to get me in trouble with some people I am sure, but There should be NO CLASS CHANGING WHILE IN FRONTLINES, this also means there should be 1 Tank 2 healers 5 DPS in a party. I have been in several matches where my team has had 0 healers, There was one today where we had a single healer for the whole Grand Company. Now this may just be people unwilling to change classes, and if there is such a req que times will become longer... so I'll leave this as something needs to be done so that there are enough healers for the parties to remain balanced.

PvP Exp & Wolf Marks - Players when defeated should give a small amount of each. say 5 or 10. This would encourage people to PvP I think as right now the rewards are very rigid even if they added more to the end of match reward I think that would be good too.

Regardless of what happens or what changes people suggest I am happy with how well this has been implemented so far.

Another suggestion that could be fun is an open Realm vs Realm area. Where people can go and PvP for fun that is not instant based and is server specific. With some objectives to take for points and something to claim likes a castle or w/e.

I would really love to see a PvP side to this game that allows people to choose which they want to do: PvE or PvP.

*pokes Rubicant*

You can overcome the character limit in posts by writing your post, copying what you wrote, posting a gibberish post, editing your post, and pasting in your full text.

Edited posts ignore the character limit.

Anywho, I don't have much to add other than that, at first reaction, I disagree that classes should not be changeable mid-Frontlines and that parties should require a certain tank:healer:dps ratio. Very little would be gained from this and it would raise queue times dramatically. The only reason queue times are as short as they are are because of the lack of restrictions such as those. I have quit games that expect me to wait 10+ minutes in a queue just to participate in a PvP match, which adds up very quickly as wasted time when it's all you do, despite the PvP in said games being very good. I do not want to see this game follow suite.

First of all you can make your first post longer and break the limit by editing your post.
There is diminishing returns on CC. Note your first sleep lasts 30 seconds, 15, 5, then not at all. I especially enjoy this when i get sleeped by 2 blm at once knocks 15 seconds right off.
Also the issue with adding a limit on how many times you can be interrupted is that it will end up making healers op. you get 3 or even 2 healers together if they both know how to use their pvp skills it's going to take a lot to get them down. not to mention they both get a divine raise + a swiftcast raise.
HOWEVER a change I would like is that attunement be instant. There are several times where i've popped it then the other team gets 10 hits in befor eit activates and i'm dead. I also think equanimity should prevent CC from effecting you as 90% of the time shield bash/silence will just stop my casting anyways.
As for the line of sight thing that really works both ways. Makes it harder for you to cast but also makes it easier for you to dodge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rubicant

snip

---

All of your complaints seem to be from the particular problems one class may have, or maybe just you may have.
They can't balance pvp from a view off "Rubicant's need to win"

understand what your class is good at in pvp and do that.

Wait hold on. Your a DAOC player and your complaining about being interrupted? I just dont know what to say to that....On another note there is diminishing returns on all CC, if your going to use equanmity without purify or the knowledge that you are stun immune then that is just your fault for being bad. Casters in this game are stronger then the ones in DAOC, expect they have pre-TOA cast speed which makes the game fair for melees in a group setting. I run with two black mages that can 2 shot squishys plus you are complaining about casters being interrupted when they have many ways to get around fighting with someone on them. I hate to be mean but your extensive background doesnt mean anything especially if your complaining about the same mechanics that were in those games that you oh so much adored. Get good? Merlin server - Angry Elves

You may have experience in pvp games, but you don't seem to play FFXIV's pvp much :). @OP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Logo

All of your complaints seem to be from the particular problems one class may have, or maybe just you may have.
They can't balance pvp from a view off "Rubicant's need to win"

understand what your class is good at in pvp and do that.

---

*smacks forehead* you are 100% right! I can't wint all the time... wait ... I learned that a long time ago from Warhammer when Order dominated the server for over 2 years and all we Destro had were small groups to play gorilla warfare tactics to try and get any sort of pvp action that wasnt being steam rolled by 2 alliances (48 vs 6 not fun) but that was a open RvR game not this. Though Honestly you are right that my point of view is skewed from a BLM/SMN perspective, as those are the jobs I play most. However watching the different parties and classes from my point of view it still seems that caster DPS are very under whelming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rubicant

*smacks forehead*

---

You probalby need to smack your forehead harder. Majoirty of people that come to this fourm will be some sort of PvP Veteran in other games. From your point of view, you thinks caster DPS are very under whelming. On other end, there are also a lot meeles from their own perspective of view, belvies that meele DPS are very under whelming.

In matter of fact, there is already this topic in regard to meele:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rining-a-melee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Logo

understand what your class is good at in pvp and do that.

---

OP, take this good advice, and re-examine yourself to find what you have done wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawk

You may have experience in pvp games, but you don't seem to play FFXIV's pvp much :). @OP

---

Sadly I've only got 51 Frontlines under my belt so far (and it is pretty evenly spread out over all three placements). I have yet to try the wolves den due to horror stories my friends tell me about it. But as I said for a game that was PvE focused, the PvP has been very good. Once I am a bit higher rank (only 21 right no *sad panda face*) I'll get some gear and try out the Wolfs Den :3