What is wrong with crafting being a part of the end-game?

I don't get it. Why can't a key-material drop from a boss and require you to find a crafter to make it for you, like request melding? It feels weird that they went through all the trouble of making crafting an actual thing and then only let them make social or vanity things.

Because no one wants to wait for an hour, spend .5-3 million gil, and then have a chance for it not to even work to get the item once it drops.

Dare I mention FFXI, but the system of crafters producing a cursed item that could only be uncursed and brought to its full strength by using an abjuration dropped from end game content would be a lovely addition to make crafting at least slightly relevant to end game.

Casuals don't want money to have to make money in addition to running end game.
Case and point:

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Originally Posted by Eissels

Because no one wants to wait for an hour, spend .5-3 million gil, and then have a chance for it not to even work to get the item once it drops.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Casuals don't want money to have to make money in addition to running end game.
Case and point:

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It has nothing to do with being a "casual," but I appreciate the derisive tone.

But, frankly? It's just a cheap way to force people to "interact" (and I use the term loosely) with others. It adds very little depth or significance beyond giving crafters a paltry way to feel slightly more relevant.

Money has nothing to do with it. I just don't support forcing people to rely on crafters to get something that they already have, especially because a shitty crafter can end up throwing it all away for you.

Yoshida feared RMT would be more of a pain than they already are if end-game gear were possible to craft/trade.

Because Yoshi doesn't like it.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

It has nothing to do with being a "casual," but I appreciate the derisive tone.

But, frankly? It's just a cheap way to force people to "interact" (and I use the term loosely) with others. It adds very little depth or significance beyond giving crafters a paltry way to feel slightly more relevant.

Money has nothing to do with it. I just don't support forcing people to rely on crafters to get something that they already have, especially because a shitty crafter can end up throwing it all away for you.

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In a way it is that, but as you just pointed out crafters would earn a reputation and you'd know who wasn't a shitty crafter. And really, any social interaction, even if it is "forced", is a good thing in a MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Yoshida feared RMT would be more of a pain than they already are if end-game gear were possible to craft/trade.

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In my idea, it'd be bound, and you would need to do something like how request melding works.

Well, I'm forced to ask in return... Why should end-game drops involve crafters? To make them feel important, Why? to give them some use? Vanity items are pretty sought after and expensive (and arguably involve dungeon items eg: tome mats for the stupid augmentation items) so Why also give them progression gear too? Don't high level crafters already have enough ways to bilk you out of gil, and with XI and XIV's "Failure is a thing" crafting system, I really don't want to have to pray to the RNG gods not once but twice, to get a piece of gear that could have just as easily dropped instead just so a crafter can say "Yay, I'm helping!".

not to mention the few times I have seen this, all it does is breed strife between crafters and non-crafters over prices (crafters complaining about the price raider charge for the mats, raiders complaing about the prices crafters charge for the finished product), leading to more infighting than community building.


Edit: and another thing... Add to much of it over the life of the game and the fact that one player can level all crafts and all this will do is make more and more players level crafting to get around you supposed "Interaction" and all crafting has become is another chore which must be done to progress efficiently thus defeating your goal and you're right back to square one.

Because people are afraid to risk anything.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

I don't get it. Why can't a key-material drop from a boss and require you to find a crafter to make it for you, like request melding? It feels weird that they went through all the trouble of making crafting an actual thing and then only let them make social or vanity things.

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Don't think it was a good idea.
It could be read as adding item (key-material drop) that crafters cannot obtain, must relay on Battle class. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Don't think it was a good idea.
It could be read as adding item (key-material drop) that crafters cannot obtain, must relay on Battle class. ^^;

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And there is nothing wrong with that either.

My opinion on the whole crafting debacle is that the game should be about the content, not the gear. There's no point in being the best geared person on the server if getting there involves monotonously running the same dungeons / raids multiple times just to get there. So in that light, there really shouldn't be any reason crafters can't make i90 - i100 level gear, as long as it is suitably challenging to make said gear.

Current system: Run raids/dungeons multiple times and pray RNG gods are benevolent enough to drop said equips.

Proposed crafting based system: Run raids/dungeons multiple times and pray RNG gods are benevolent enough to drop said crafting materials and allow your craft to succeed.

The only people to benefit from this change would be crafters would are currently decked out in the best crafting gear.

If this proposal does happen, prices of crafting gear and mats will go through the roof, causing anyone who would want to start becoming a crafter face an impossible task.
Current veteran crafters will set prices for said services high and simply stop crafting crafting gear to prevent competition from entering the market.

If crafted gear was less powerful than raid drops, which is what it is currently like, its a irrelevant change.
If crafted gear was more powerful than raid drops, get ready for paying millions upon millions to minmax. If prices are ridiculous enough, get ready for boom of RMTs or simply ignoring of said crafted gear due to ridiculous prices.

tl;dr the game is fine as it is, end game equips are fine as being drop only with no part in crafting.

Rather then trying to force crafting into the combat, gear grind end game, it simply needs more value in an alternate end game.

Vanity gear, housing objects; heck, a collectible card game with craftable cards. Make more things to do with crafting and thus to do in the game in general. It needn't all be about fighting stuff to get better gear to fight stronger stuff. That's fun and all, but they don't need to be forced together. Expand.

There's nothing wrong with it at all. Several games feature it and do quite well. The problem is, too many modern MMO players can't be bothered to interact with anyone and don't feel anything but combat is worth their time.

Nothing wrong with it at all.

Gathering jobs purpose is obtaining craft materials.
Craft jobs have no impact on end-game.

Why bother include the Disciples of Lands and Hands class in your game if you don't want them have an real fonction? (i don't think we can say vanity/housing gear are a real fonction... it's purely cosmetic)

Yoshi hates crafters, that's all there is to it.

When we ask for high level crafts, we get ilvl 90 gear requiring abhorrently expensive materials and gated behind a grind mechanic which makes the zodiac quests look positively tame by comparison. Oh, and we also get a ton of level 1 fashion wear which is also ridiculously expensive.

I just get the idea that Yoshi has no idea what to do with them. The vanity items, in my humble opinion, should have been done one of two ways. Either make them viable as combat wear by giving them actual stats to make that expense worth a bit more, or alternatively make them a sub level 50 synthesis requiring 'normal' ingredients. Why over complicate something as simple as looking nice?

Which brings me to alchemy and the insanity that is artifact dyeing. Once again, Yoshi takes a process which should be very simple and turns it into a nightmare fuel where only the absolute best of the best can participate, and at an expense which would make even the wealthiest Ul'dahn merchant count out her pennies.

It's sad, but unless crafting gets a serious overhaul I don't see it as ever being anything more than a side dish for the main event.

If crafters get to make end game gear, they should be subject to, uh, other end game things too.
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I'm sorry, but you have crafted your limit of 10 high end crafting goods this week. The reset is Tuesday morning, please look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Senfei

If crafters get to make end game gear, they should be subject to, uh, other end game things too.
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I'm sorry, but you have crafted your limit of 10 high end crafting goods this week. The reset is Tuesday morning, please look forward to it!

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You realise the mechanic to limit this stuff already exists, don't you? Soldiery tomes have a cap and could be used to purchase items necessary for crafting. You could make items which require items dropped in raids which count towards your weekly limit. There are possibilities here, but people are too short-sighted to see them when it comes to crafting.

Besides, anyone who's done even a little bit of crafting knows how much work goes into capping out your skills in order to be able to craft the high level items. Work, and gil, lots of gil. Why shouldn't we be able to see some kind of return on our investment? It takes a mere ilvl 70 to beat a high level dungeon and walk away with ilvl110 gear, and that's somehow more 'worthy' than spending a lot of time, patience and money investing in a craft.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Casuals don't want money to have to make money in addition to running end game.
Case and point:

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Casuals? WTF? I'm pretty much a 'casual' by your definition, I bet. And I want crafting to be able to make ilvl 100 gear, and even perhaps have a way to upgrade those items to ilvl 110 via some special system. Crafting should be one of many ways to reach end-game. WoW really screwed up the entire concept by gating ALL of the best gear behind raids as drop only. It's stupid. Almost every MMO I played before WoW became popular allowed (if not outright required) crafters to make the end-game gear.