In the Expansion Main Story..

Please don't use so many fillers. Fillers are good and all, but when they are 85% of what you do, it feels like story doesn't have much.

I hope when making this expansion you have taken this into consideration :D.

There wasn't much filler in this patch. (o.O ) The individual characters are as much the story as the fall of Dalamud.

0.o I thought the story in 2.3 was perfectly paced.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

There wasn't much filler in this patch. (o.O ) The individual characters are as much the story as the fall of Dalamud.

0.o I thought the story in 2.3 was perfectly paced.

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Talking about 2.0 and 3.0 Story, not 2.x story :P.

2.0 Story was well done, how can you say anything about 3.0 story since we know next to nothing.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

2.0 Story was well done, how can you say anything about 3.0 story since we know next to nothing.

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I don't know anything about 3.0, I am merely trying to prevent the same thing happening to 2.0 ( Yes 2.0 story was awesome, but it had way too many fillers and take this to that person and what not).

Cheese. No more cheese or cheese-related storytelling in the future please. :p

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Please use more fillers.

I hope when making this expansion you have taken this into consideration :D.

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Fixed.

I never once found the story to be filler. Everything behind you has had a logical leap to what you're on. Okay, so some quests are just there for funny (Anyone up for Tidus EX or Leviabeetus EX?), but you were told exactly why you were going there: to follow a lead on a hero that killed Titan/Leviathan. And after we finished, at least with Titan, we did come into new info for our mission.

I could stand a small amount of filler to be honest, more to learn the history of the world and such.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Fixed.

I never once found the story to be filler. Everything behind you has had a logical leap to what you're on. Okay, so some quests are just there for funny (Anyone up for Tidus EX or Leviabeetus EX?), but you were told exactly why you were going there: to follow a lead on a hero that killed Titan/Leviathan. And after we finished, at least with Titan, we did come into new info for our mission.

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Yes, however, in between you had to do other pointless thing like 6-8 quests involved Bacchus' Wine before you could even do Titan Story. Could skip all of that pointless "back story" ( which can be told in a side quest).

In Ala Mhigo, You had to get the leader of the base your trust but he wouldn't have it, so you had to go Quarrymill and do 8 or so quests before he sends you back to little Ala Mhigo with a letter of recommendation.

Like I said, I love the story, I can just do without the fetch quests.

my only complaint is having quests that send you halfway across the world to do 1 turn in (not even killing anything) then it sends your right back. If you are going to send us that far, at least have us do something else why we are there lol :)

Yes, what Starlord said x100!

I am enjoying the story but having to do SO MANY pointless fetch quests is bringing it down for me. Save that for the optional side quests.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Please don't use so many fillers. Fillers are good and all, but when they are 85% of what you do, it feels like story doesn't have much.

I hope when making this expansion you have taken this into consideration :D.

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I agree. Using this patch as an example the political unrest in Ul'dah.... I got through a couple dialogues then started skipping. Yes the aristocrats in Ul'dah are power hungry bastards that spit on the weak and poor. I get it. Can we get back to the evil organization that is looking to take over the world?


Or basically any quest that goes something like this...

"Hey you aren't you the one that saved the ENTIRE KNOWN WORLD from those evil primals and the Ultima weapon? Mind going down the street and picking up my laundry from the cleaners?"

^ What. The. Hell. There are plenty of street urchins around this place that would love the 100 gil your paying me to pick up your laundry. How about giving me a task that fits my reputation. I don't want to be known as "Zarzak, Courier of Clean Underwear"

I'm not so sure that would be such a good idea. If they removed the filler, we would have an expansion with a lovely 12 quests to complete.

The expansion should take us to new lands, so I'm sure you can count on a lot of "earn their trust" quests, because nothing says you can trust me like killing sheep and delivering packages.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Yes, however, in between you had to do other pointless thing like 6-8 quests involved Bacchus' Wine before you could even do Titan Story. Could skip all of that pointless "back story" ( which can be told in a side quest).

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The thing that really got me about that part was that it was totally self-aware about it, too, but it went through with it anyway. "Ha ha! I need you to prove your worth by going and doing these mundane fetch tasks, like MMOs are wont to do! Isn't that funny? Haha! ...........But no, seriously, I'm really going to need you to go get me those things."

Pointing out how boring something is while you're telling the player to do it doesn't change the fact that it's boring.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Or basically any quest that goes something like this...

"Hey you aren't you the one that saved the ENTIRE KNOWN WORLD from those evil primals and the Ultima weapon? Mind going down the street and picking up my laundry from the cleaners?"

^ What. The. Hell. There are plenty of street urchins around this place that would love the 100 gil your paying me to pick up your laundry. How about giving me a task that fits my reputation. I don't want to be known as "Zarzak, Courier of Clean Underwear"

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In a way, the Main story of 2.0 having some fetch quests is "ok". However, now that your name is out there in a big way, having the story tell you to Pick up something for someone is kinda dull.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

In a way, the Main story of 2.0 having some fetch quests is "ok". However, now that your name is out there in a big way, having the story tell you to Pick up something for someone is kinda dull.

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But I don't mind doing things for Tataru. <3

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Originally Posted by Starlord

In a way, the Main story of 2.0 having some fetch quests is "ok". However, now that your name is out there in a big way, having the story tell you to Pick up something for someone is kinda dull.

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Agreed. I was even ok with the before mentioned Al Migo quest line that sent you to Quarrymill. Because at that time you weren't this renowned adventurer so sure make us go earn a reputation among these people. Was it overly interesting? No but it made sense. But at this point in the story menial labor tasks like these are just insulting. And they only exist because of the modern MMO's love of "do 10000000 quests".



EverQuest Didn't have this many quests. And it was nice because when you DID do a quest

A. it was usually meaningful and
B. the reward was usually pretty nice.

There was rarely filler quests. But for some reason modern MMOs feel that 10 seconds without a quest is poor design and shove them anywhere they can.



Example of FFXIV failing at B would be the "Greatest Story Never Told". LOVED the quest (though the math problem one was rediculious... Eventually just googled it. Dunno how anyone came up with that solution (I was going to just make every possible piece of jewelry and try them all). But after the whole chain you get basically nothing. I like puzzles but being a quest some reward even if it was just a novelty would have been nice.

I dont really count anything that happened as filler, but I can understand what you mean. However you have to remember that 2.0's story was designed to be done across 50 levels and take you to each part of eorzea as you reached the level you were meant to be in that zone. You were supposed to do it as you levelled up, without having to wait to get 10 levels each time before you could do the next quest or grind a whole bunch just to see the story. We couldnt really have earth shattering battles and mind blowing revelations at every single level. I imagine the expansion story will probably not be as long, but will be designed for high level players and wont need as much of that 'filler.'

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Originally Posted by Dijana

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Well from my side anyway I was talking about the level 50 content. Like I said in my last post the "prove yourself" fillers while leveling up make sense. Or even at cap when it's something new (like when we eventually are allowed to travel to new countries) but like going and picking up Tataru''s mining hammer? Are there not some initiates around here that can go on this courier mission while I go look into the evil organization seeking world domination?

As a side quest sure... Doing something for my friend. But as the main story? There is no story here. It is an amusing side story of the Scions being so broke that their bookkeeper is mining for riches. (it was amusing I'll give it that)

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

Cheese. No more cheese or cheese-related storytelling in the future please. :p

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Don't listen to this person.

I want more cheese-based quests. There's a whole world of Goblin cheese I'm only beginning to understand and, if anything, not enough has been done to explore this.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Yes, however, in between you had to do other pointless thing like 6-8 quests involved Bacchus' Wine before you could even do Titan Story. Could skip all of that pointless "back story" ( which can be told in a side quest).

In Ala Mhigo, You had to get the leader of the base your trust but he wouldn't have it, so you had to go Quarrymill and do 8 or so quests before he sends you back to little Ala Mhigo with a letter of recommendation.

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Both of those had good reasons, as both were made of a "why should I trust you?" thing. The CoH didn't want to send some idiot to certain death. The Ala Mhigo have no reason to trust anyone but themselves after how they were treated when the fled the Garlians.

Would you rather it go like this?:

"Why should I trust you?"
"I'm an adventurer."
"Okay I trust you fully."

The other thing the missions did for you was guide you along one path of leveling you could do.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

In a way, the Main story of 2.0 having some fetch quests is "ok". However, now that your name is out there in a big way, having the story tell you to Pick up something for someone is kinda dull.

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I always love going to zones I didn't go to when levelling.

"Who are you supposed to be?"
"Fluttershy Fleetflight, I helped save the world from five primals, destroyed the Garlemald Empire's ultimate weapon, and recognized as a Warrior of Light."
"Never heard of you. Get me CORN."

Well, if we end up dealing with a faction that doesn't know us or doesn't trust us (or both!), we more than likely will end up doing a ton of "look, I bring you things, now trust me" quests.

If the filler and sidequests prove anything (ESPECIALLY the Costa Del Sol ones), it's that the lifeblood of Eorzean civilization in the modern age is mobs of random maniacs with weapons who spend equal amounts of time saving the world from horrors unspeakable and gathering up really great sandwich ingredients for lazy people.

Not one or the other, both. Often within the same day.

By all means, keep the filler. When I put "cheese distribution specialist" among many other titles on my résumé, I mean it, dammit.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

I want more cheese-based quests. There's a whole world of Goblin cheese I'm only beginning to understand and, if anything, not enough has been done to explore this.

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You. I like you.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

I never once found the story to be filler

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Sweet mother of... wat?

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Would you rather it go like this?:

"Why should I trust you?"
"I'm an adventurer."
"Okay I trust you fully."

The other thing the missions did for you was guide you along one path of leveling you could do.

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In terms, of the Ala Mhigo is concerned, I would have done something like this:

- Why should I trust you?
- I know that your city has been taken from you and you been forced into this little area, However, I am going to prove to you that I am going to help you out of this crisis.
- Help rebuild there home since they can't go back to Ala Mhigo. Part of it will be fillers yes, BUT as a side quest deal, you help them rebuild their lives here in Eorzea, while preparing to invade Ala Mhigo to take back their homeland! ( Expansion pack talking here). <------ This could be a "side "Reputation building to gain their trust" ( Fill up a bar by doing odd end things like, bringing them food, wood, helping them build a house of sorts.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Sweet mother of... wat?

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Seriously, I didn't. When I first did the Costa la Sol part, I was concerned that it was pointless, but when they all gathered at the end to tell you why they did, it made a lot more sense to me and I wouldn't consider it filler.

My definition of filler is anything that doesn't have some explained reason in the storyline, it's just there and has no impact on anything at all.

And I expect to be an unknown to a new land an expansion would bring. :D You can't just expect your feats and achievements to carry the same weight elsewhere.

For example, if we got Ala Mhigo, I might expect some people to know me, but as part of the Garlean Empire, other than the events that happened at the Castrums, I can expect that the Empire will keep my name hush-hush.

I wouldn't mind filler as much if its actually interesting. Making it for the sake of length is a no no for me.

if there weren't "Filler" quest, and every quest was "Go Kill The Dragon", we be asking for less "Kill the Dragon quests"

Filler exists for a reason to pace the story and give motivation or backstory. I mean really, the Climax of The Hobbit is the Battle of Five Armies, what's with all this faffing about and playing riddles with a hunchback in a cave? Heck even one of the "Twelve Labors of Heracles" was mucking out a stable and he was not only a "Hero" but a legit Demi-God.

A Hero is not defined merely by how many dragons they've killed, but by all their actions, both Great and Humble.

Also, let us not forget the questlines that involve the Roegayden that goes around claiming to have been a member of "The Company of Heros"and to have felled the primals before and you routinely expose him for the fraud and shiftless lay about he is. How many people are roaming Eorzea now, claiming your accomplishments for their own or even outright claiming to be you? I can see why the people might not be so quick to trust yet another adventurer making wild claims about fame and glory. I mean it's not like there has been a parade in your honor in every hamlet, and a statue erected to depict your raidience in every town square.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Agreed. I was even ok with the before mentioned Al Migo quest line that sent you to Quarrymill. Because at that time you weren't this renowned adventurer so sure make us go earn a reputation among these people. Was it overly interesting? No but it made sense. But at this point in the story menial labor tasks like these are just insulting. And they only exist because of the modern MMO's love of "do 10000000 quests".

EverQuest Didn't have this many quests. And it was nice because when you DID do a quest

A. it was usually meaningful and
B. the reward was usually pretty nice.

There was rarely filler quests. But for some reason modern MMOs feel that 10 seconds without a quest is poor design and shove them anywhere they can.

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Everquest 2 has 10x as many quests as FFXIV. Everquest 1 didn't because it was a sandbox MMO and not a themepark MMO.

Let's see...
I'm a Second Lieutenant in the Maelstrom.
I've felled Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Leviathan, and Ramuh.
I've killed 2 Imperial Legatus (Legacy Character).
I've destroyed Ultima Weapon.
I've bested an Ascian.
I've fought pirates, giants, cultists, voidsent, dragons, marmots, bombs, hell even treasure chests!

but most importantly, I look out for the little people no matter that task I'm given.
I'm merely an adventurer.
Some may call me Hero, Defender of Eorzea, Warrior of Light, or Eikon Slayer, but I remember my roots.
Still green entering the Drowning Wench for the first time with a ballonfish in my pocket.
No task is beneath me, save killing an innocent. That is our true glory.
Anyone can fling about my name, but only I can prove it's worth and thus do I declare: Let There Be Filler!

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Seriously, I didn't. When I first did the Costa la Sol part, I was concerned that it was pointless, but when they all gathered at the end to tell you why they did, it made a lot more sense to me and I wouldn't consider it filler.

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The Costa Del Sol stuff, simply put, is filler done as right as it can possibly be. It's incredibly self-aware, and all of those quests serve to paint a picture of Eorzea as a setting. Hell, it even gets pretty poignant at one point, with you helping out that Garlean deserter.

Overall, joking even aside, I am just very impressed with the writers and localizers for this game. I trust them to make silly, incidental filler content right alongside the big epic world-shaking stuff.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Don't listen to this person.

I want more cheese-based quests. There's a whole world of Goblin cheese I'm only beginning to understand and, if anything, not enough has been done to explore this.

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Remember, the secret ingredient is *mumble*. Oh my gob!

The only part I hated about the 2.0 was the huge back and forth in Coerthas to get an airship. I could not care less about the business of those families/cities/whatever and I felt I was playing a different game entierly. Other than that, 2.2's pacing was terrible but 2.3 was great.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Both of those had good reasons, as both were made of a "why should I trust you?" thing. The CoH didn't want to send some idiot to certain death. The Ala Mhigo have no reason to trust anyone but themselves after how they were treated when the fled the Garlians.

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I read the Costa del Sol part as: "Ok, you wanna fight Titus like us? Well, rather than see if you know which part of your sword to fight with by sending you out to kill this beasty that's been terrorizing the resort, I'll send you out to get ingredients...for a feast....that isn't physically demanding or shows us your martial skill. We could just give you the strat that worked for us but instead, you're gonna make us sammiches cause we're hungry!"

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Originally Posted by Lucke

I read the Costa del Sol part as: "Ok, you wanna fight Titus like us? Well, rather than see if you know which part of your sword to fight with by sending you out to kill this beasty that's been terrorizing the resort, I'll send you out to get ingredients...for a feast....that isn't physically demanding or shows us your martial skill. We could just give you the strat that worked for us but instead, you're gonna make us sammiches cause we're hungry!"

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The biggest annoyance to me was that they tell me, "You'll understand why we did this when we tell you the strategy." and, IIRC, the only strategy you get is, "Go attune to a beastman aetheryte and you can finally face him!"...

>:-(

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Originally Posted by Starlord

*snip*

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I see now, you have no problem with story, you have a problem with quest mechanics. This is how most games are. Are there better ways to handle it? Absolutely, but it has nothing to do with the story really. If you remove all those, the story would admittedly take about 30 minutes, but you would also be somewhere around level 30 when finished with the main story line. They had to add in something to do, otherwise they might as well make a movie.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Seriously, I didn't. When I first did the Costa la Sol part, I was concerned that it was pointless, but when they all gathered at the end to tell you why they did, it made a lot more sense to me and I wouldn't consider it filler.

My definition of filler is anything that doesn't have some explained reason in the storyline, it's just there and has no impact on anything at all.

And I expect to be an unknown to a new land an expansion would bring. :D You can't just expect your feats and achievements to carry the same weight elsewhere.

For example, if we got Ala Mhigo, I might expect some people to know me, but as part of the Garlean Empire, other than the events that happened at the Castrums, I can expect that the Empire will keep my name hush-hush.

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I'm not even really bothered too much by "story filler" (because, as you say, they all can be given a story justification) but rather "gameplay filler." Remember the part in the 2.1 storyline (that requires level 50) that had you randomly go do Qarn and a couple of guildhests? THAT felt like filler.

Come to think of it, wouldn't the Company of Heroes fail because as far as we know, they don't possess the Echo. Titus or Leviabeetus could just temper everyone and that's that. I wonder, can Beastymen be tempered by other beastymen's primals? Brayflox is a gobbie, can she be tempered by Titus and Leviabeetus?

Agreed.
The entire Titan arc was just a slog.
Oh, except for the Fake Hero Fight. That was awesome.