The Hunts - Solution: Party Content in open world.

Simple.

What Hunts should have been from the begining and anyone who played FFXII was expecting. Hunts should be party content, forced spawns individual to each player.
Easy and simple.


B Rank: 1-4 man, 5 per day. (15 diferent marks per day, 5 per each board)
A Rank: 4-8 man, 1 per day. (3 diferent marks per day, 1 per each board)
S Rank: 8 man, 1 per week. (3 diferent marks per week, 1 per each board)

Players in the party will all get the reward, just as GC delivery and supply missions, marks for everyone in the server will be the same, just the area of spawn for them will be diferent, having a big array of diferent marks will help maps to not get full of people looking for the same mark.

Even when is a party triggered spawn, anyone in the area can help, but the reward for those people will not be the full reward of course.

The rewards should stay but the prices of raid items (oils and sands) should increase.

Think about them as harder leve allowances for parties in which any player can participate even if outside your party.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

A great idea

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http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/b...ithreadgy6.jpg
Agree with this 100%. Excellent idea. Can we get some mod responses for all these hunt threads? It's been a week since the patch and with complaints from every country there's been no response at all.

I'd also like to add the positives of this system:

• Promotes group content, people can utilize party finder or do more activities with their FC
• Does not promote people to fight over mobs because ultimately they'd get a better reward by grouping with others
• Utilizes the original "sense" of what hunts were about - killing tough monsters with everyone but without the rage factor of fighting over stuff like it's 2003

Or, your idea could be a completely different system... perhaps elite guildhests instead of elite leves, even. The development team could probably set up some amazing guildhest scenarios.

That said, I don't think the answer here is to make the hunt system popped or instanced. This game already has enough popped/instanced content, and desperately needs more open-world content, not less.

The system just needs to be improved, and/or players should have more options like the one you described. However, some people really enjoy the competitive nature of chasing down open-world marks, which are basically NMs. While some people may enjoy the content more if it's popped or instanced, then others will enjoy it less if it's no longer open-world, competitive content.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

That said, I don't think the answer here is to make the hunt system popped or instanced. This game already has enough popped/instanced content, and desperately needs more open-world content, not less.

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Most games have stopped doing "open world" content like this because this is exactly what happens when they do.
People fight over stuff and it just becomes nasty and offputting. That's why his idea still keeps a bit of the "open world" feel, but still has it be "controlled" so that it's fair for everyone.
The old fashioned "open world" stuff is too old of a system that was never good enough to continue running. That's why a lot of games utilizing it have shut down or are filled with bots.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

However, some people really enjoy the competitive nature of chasing down open-world marks, which are basically NMs.

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there are very very very very few people like this. if you can get Sands with no lockout in another part of the game within a reasonable amount of time (not 7 Allied Seals a day), i'm going to guess most people would not be competitive at all.

Absolute agree with OPs idea, tbh it's at the stage now that this is the only way it would work

Yes, this.

I definitely expected Hunts to be not unlike treasure hunts, but with more searching and spawn requirements for those monsters you were hunting. The system they have atm just doesn't seem thought through at all.

I'd like to add to this by suggesting that the monsters of this systems could have the chance to drop special crafting mats. (Monster Hunter-esque gear anyone?)

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Or, your idea could be a completely different system... perhaps elite guildhests instead of elite leves, even. The development team could probably set up some amazing guildhest scenarios.

That said, I don't think the answer here is to make the hunt system popped or instanced. This game already has enough popped/instanced content, and desperately needs more open-world content, not less. The system just needs to be improved, and/or players should have more options like the one you described. However, some people really enjoy the competitive nature of chasing down open-world marks, which are basically NMs. While some people may enjoy the content more if it's popped or instanced, then others will enjoy it less if it's no longer open-world, competitive content.

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This is not less open world content.

The boss will be in open world, everyone will be able to hit him. The thing is, open world content is bad if it is just there, for everyone to get, becomes a zergfest, and is the mayor problem here. The competitive nature of chasing down the hunts has nothing of competitive thanks to radars, and is not even healthy, just 2 minutes in any elite mark map will tell you that. We have enough zerfest content, we have enough instanced content, we need true open world content. Hunts are not that, hunts in fact are only being played by the reward. Remove oils and sands out of the allied seal rewards and Hunts die as a system completely.

My proposal covers both points, having open world content and not letting it become another zergfest, braindead race only motivated by reward but something players will do to have fun with their parties. You might be even farming arround when a party spawns the boss and you will get the chance to get into the action. Is perfectly sane open world content.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

My proposal covers both points, having open world content and not letting it become another zergfest, braindead race only motivated by reward but something players will do to have fun with their parties. You might be even farming arround when a party spawns the boss and you will get the chance to get into the action. Is perfectly sane open world content.

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This is exactly what happened with us. We were on our way to do a peiste map and one of our party members is like "omg i found a hunt mark!" so we rushed to it, it was one of those giant tonberry scholar things. There was 4 of us in the party so we immediately attacked it along with our chocobos. A few other people came by and began attacking too. So then then a bunch of other people (presumeably linkshells?) came over and were all upset that it was dead. But we thought it was so much fun killing it with our party and the few others nearby. That's what it felt like hunt should be like. Not the entire server rushing to 1 location and killing it in 2 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Or, your idea could be a completely different system... perhaps elite guildhests instead of elite leves, even. The development team could probably set up some amazing guildhest scenarios.

That said, I don't think the answer here is to make the hunt system popped or instanced. This game already has enough popped/instanced content, and desperately needs more open-world content, not less.

The system just needs to be improved, and/or players should have more options like the one you described. However, some people really enjoy the competitive nature of chasing down open-world marks, which are basically NMs. While some people may enjoy the content more if it's popped or instanced, then others will enjoy it less if it's no longer open-world, competitive content.

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Didn't 1.0 have NM's through levequests? Behest iirc? I guess that was replaced with Guildhests though.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

This is exactly what happened with us. We were on our way to do a peiste map and one of our party members is like "omg i found a hunt mark!" so we rushed to it, it was one of those giant tonberry scholar things. There was 4 of us in the party so we immediately attacked it along with our chocobos. A few other people came by and began attacking too. So then then a bunch of other people (presumeably linkshells?) came over and were all upset that it was dead. But we thought it was so much fun killing it with our party and the few others nearby. That's what it felt like hunt should be like. Not the entire server rushing to 1 location and killing it in 2 seconds.

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This is exactly what should happen, like, all the time. Even if happen to you guys, the crude reality is that the Hunt gets zergrushed and the whole experience last 3 seconds.

OP, I think this is the best alternative system anyone's proposed so far. Somehow I think that SE's just going to apply a band-aid to the problem rather than completely overhaul it (if they bother to do anything at all), but if they do then this is how they should do it.

This is exactly what I envisioned (end hoped) hunts to be. I hope they'll change the current system into something like this. After Odin/Behemoth and now hunt, I've learned to stay away from open world content... it's simply not fun.

The hard part is controlling the rewards behind it. Even if you don't get full reward for being outside of the party, the exact same horde of player we see now will attempt to abuse that system by separate spawning things. Run your spawns to the limit - have everyone help. Someone else does their mark spawns - you and everyone else helps to still be rewarded. What we see now will still happen under what you propose, it's just going to be the lesser of two evils. People will still camp every area, hoping someone will spawn their marks. Similar to how it is now, the experience is still going to be nothing noteworthy (despite the fact that the fights are kinda fun when done as intended).

Now if your intent on the Hunt feature is simply the reward, rather than the in-between (doing low man / open world-ish content with friends, taking on new challenges, going on a theoretical hunt to spawn your prey, etc), then by all means none of what I just said would be a bad thing.

This............ Sounds like Sky/Sea Gods in FFXI (Last expansion I played was WoTG) but I heard that since then some HNMs that was back in my day was able to be forced spawn or something like that but that's about the same thing, only difference is that other players are able to help out if they feel like it.

Don't forget to address the whole if "this" party wipes to that NM can "these guys" take it? In the case similar to Sky/Sea gods they shouldn't be able to.

I can't really see people helping also unless they just want to out of kicks and giggles and not get anything for it and using up 5-15 minutes of their time.

POST IS TOO LONG BRB.

Idea is all fine and dandy though but I feel that the current system can actually be fun with some tweaks to it. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut (don't kill me for this guys) whats the difference between 4-8 person parties and forced spawning monsters that come out and have their own mechanics compared to you and your FC/Friends queueing up for a primal EX fight(other than the monster, location, and it being forced spawn through an item + condition cause then you just have one of those treasure maps)? I might be missing it, someone tell me if I am. I just felt that everyone so far agreed with the OP too quick.

POST STILL TOO LONG HOLD ON ONLY 1 MORE.

I like the whole teaming up with random people to take down a monster, that provides a challenge but not so much that random PUGs can't overcome, and everyone getting mutual rewards out of it that aren't game-breaking. With the current system though those monsters die too fast and everyone will freaking hate your guts if your the puller and call you out in shouts, blacklist you for arguing back and etc. Along with all the trolls that... you know troll(and using the FFXIVAPP Radar). And it's these things that are killing the current system but like I said a couple tweaks here, a banhammer there, a patch and update here...

@Nukocafe: <3 that story it embodies what "The Hunt" should be, server shouldn't be rushing to 1 NM that dies in 30 seconds but, when I was killing an S-Class with my server I found it fun, and a small sense of achievement that I did something with my server. I mean it feels more alive than it ever has in this game.

This has only been my opinion peeps, leave me your feedback/opinion <3
I could of just posted once and edited it and not get the 1000 character caps couldn't I?.... sorries for triple post! >.<

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

This is exactly what happened with us. We were on our way to do a peiste map and one of our party members is like "omg i found a hunt mark!" so we rushed to it, it was one of those giant tonberry scholar things. There was 4 of us in the party so we immediately attacked it along with our chocobos. A few other people came by and began attacking too. So then then a bunch of other people (presumeably linkshells?) came over and were all upset that it was dead. But we thought it was so much fun killing it with our party and the few others nearby. That's what it felt like hunt should be like. Not the entire server rushing to 1 location and killing it in 2 seconds.

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Yea, I tried to be nice today and did a zone <pos> for a B I found today. Kept hearing the "please wait, please wait" and after 20 people showed up I got 1 seal.... I'm sorry if this sounds selfish but if I find a low rank hunt I'm taking it down. It's not worth it for me to wait when I can just get 7 seals from dailies.

For a S I can understand wait for enough to take it down, but it's ridiculous to expect people to wait for the server on something that is designed to be killed by 1-4 people.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Hunts should be party content, forced spawns individual to each player. Easy and simple.

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You forget we already have this in the form of treasure maps. Sadly devs haven't done anything with it since 2.1. Elite Hunt was designed for people who wanted NM's from FFXI and FFXIV 1.0.

Ok as a retired vet ffxi player I will say there is nothing wrong with the current hunt system save for one thing: currently the reward for farming these marks is the highest ilvl armor in the game (110) in a form that's accessible to everyone, and therefore everyone and their grandma wants a piece of the action.

If the reward for hunts was say, loa type gear or darklight for example, would ppl be trampling each other trying to get it? No. The problem with hunts is the reward not the system itself.

This game lacks exciting and unique gear, as well as suffers from having minimal choices for end game gear. i say they need to add a ton more stat types to existing armor, things like barrage+1 and cure cast time down, haste etc. As well as add more armor with different stats at 100/110 for now and make it attainable through dungeons or quests or crafting.

The problem with the hunt is more of a reflection of the deficiencies in the lack of creativity that went into the gear stats.

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Originally Posted by Eiketsu

Ok as a retired vet ffxi player I will say there is nothing wrong with the current hunt system save for thing: currently the reward for farming these marks is the highest ilvl armor in the game (110) in a form that's accessible to everyone, and therefore everyone and their grandma wants a piece of the action.

If the reward for hunts was say, loa type gear or darklight for example, would ppl be trampling each other trying to get it? No. The problem with hunts is the reward not the system itself.

This game lacks exciting and unique gear, as well as suffers from having minimal choices for end game gear. i say they need to add a ton more stat types to existing armor, things like barrage+1 and cure cast time down, haste etc. As well as add more armor with different stats at 100/110 for now and make it attainable through dungeons or quests or crafting.

The problem with the hunt is more of a reflection of the deficiencies in the lack of creativity that went into the gear stats.

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I agree with this. It was very short sighted to offer i110 gear from Hunts. I personally just want the allied seal gear. Even then you can see a flaw because it should have been i90 with set bonus, not i70... I hope in 3.0 they focus on horizontal gear improvement instead of vertical.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I agree with this. It was very short sighted to offer i110 gear from Hunts. I personally just want the allied seal gear. Even then you can see a flaw because it should have been i90 with set bonus, not i70... I hope in 3.0 they focus on horizontal gear improvement instead of vertical.

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The intent with the AS exclusive gear is vanity. Think of the stats (i70) as a small bonus for anyone that wants it for glamour, yet might actually use it for however short of a time for whatever job. Would you feel the same way had it been a level 1 equip? Maybe not, since there would be no stats attached to it, and you wouldn't be led on by an additional carrot on a stick (stats) trying to get it.

I have an idea, why not just have a daily cap on how many times you can kill each mark in each rank? Once you kill a mark 5 times, you cant kill it again until the next day. The cap would be for each individual mark in each individual rank. That sounds reasonable to me.

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Originally Posted by MeganLynn

I have an idea, why not just have a daily cap on how many times you can kill each mark in each rank? Once you kill a mark 5 times, you cant kill it again until the next day. The cap would be for each individual mark in each individual rank. That sounds reasonable to me.

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Because there are so many people doing the hunts that the limit would do little to solve the issue. It's pretty nuts.

I would rather have them make it to where you can purchase the oils/sands of time via Myth tomes. I think if they did this the zerg would die down allowing those who don't wish to compete like a mad man another venue of choice aside from doing SCoB.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I would rather have them make it to where you can purchase the oils/sands of time via Myth tomes. I think if they did this the zerg would die down allowing those who don't wish to compete like a mad man another venue of choice aside from doing SCoB.

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That is going to be far from a solution. The whole system is broken, that is just a patch, this system needs a complete rework, is broken beyond repair.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

That is going to be far from a solution. The whole system is broken, that is just a patch, this system needs a complete rework, is broken beyond repair.

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I partially agree. Marks give out times as well and if they were handed at the same relitive price (250) then evem MORE peopel will spam hunts becyase you can get sands.oil in less hunts using myths instead of marks.

Also the gear you need to use the time stuff on is bought with Tombstones of Soldiery not Mythology meaning that under your proposed solution, people will have instant 110 gear the moment they buy the 100

The way I see it there are four ways Hunts can be improved. The OP's way, HP scaling like FATEs, the removal of Hunt Logs or the complete and utter removal of the system and all it's rewards (including the vanity stuff like the minions) and placing the non 110 rewards in different ways of getting them (Dungeons for minions, 40000 seals for i70 gear, etc.)

They already tried HP scaling, did nothing xD

no. this is the only content i even enjoy giving limits on them will just make it stupid and useless the system is fine the maps need to be bigger or you should beable to buy a item that tracks them.

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Originally Posted by Komoritane

Open world content should provide rewards proportional to the number of people it is intended to draw at one time. Unfortunately even 1 allied seal is enough to draw the whole server to a single hunt :(

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Yeah because ppl are going out of their ways to kill low-level mobs or wating to fates for one seal

The draw is the possibility of getting more than one seal depending on if you're on a party or not

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

They already tried HP scaling, did nothing xD

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It did, and a lot. Now you can hunt reasonably well (in organized fashion) even in prime time. As A ranks have just enough time to survive until at least 20-30 ppl will gang on them. So if you get info straight away, you'll get you participation.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

This is exactly what I envisioned (end hoped) hunts to be. I hope they'll change the current system into something like this. After Odin/Behemoth and now hunt, I've learned to stay away from open world content... it's simply not fun.

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It's a group competion content, and game seriously lacked it from the start, Arena was uninspiring and not really balanced and cater to a very specific group of people. Odin and Bahamut was so rare that there were no point in active competition for them.
And now we have two new activity - Frontlines that is competitive PvP and Hunts that is competitive PvE.
If you don't like to actively compete with others - just leave this content alone. And as for rewards... they always go to most dedicated crowd.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

It's a group competion content, and game seriously lacked it from the start, Arena was uninspiring and not really balanced and cater to a very specific group of people. Odin and Bahamut was so rare that there were no point in active competition for them.
And now we have two new activity - Frontlines that is competitive PvP and Hunts that is competitive PvE.
If you don't like to actively compete with others - just leave this content alone. And as for rewards... they always go to most dedicated crowd.

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This is not a competition, it would be a competition if the prize was only for the party who did the most DPS out of the hunt. Right now, is just a mindless race, nothing else at all. A bad excuse for a badly thought, devoloped and applied concept of content. The forums beg for a solution, idk if any of us has really a good alternative, but as much as we know, Hunts are not good as they are right now.

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Necromancing this because of the epic maintenance and fix to the hunts.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

This is not a competition, it would be a competition if the prize was only for the party who did the most DPS out of the hunt. Right now, is just a mindless race, nothing else at all.

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It's a competion - receive information, get in time, organize your party properly to get gold even with 100+ people around. All of those requires some practice and organization.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

The forums beg for a solution, idk if any of us has really a good alternative, but as much as we know, [I]Hunts are not good as they are right now.

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You know, that part of the crowd that successful in Hunt mostly not write on a forum because they are good as it is. Leftover and wannabe is the people that post their tearful experiences on a forums, but they a vocal minority.

I propose you a read on a subject "forums beg for solution" - http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/tam...e-forum-tiger/
The very first paragraph is hilarious looking at what a mess General forum became.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

It's a competion - receive information, get in time, organize your party properly to get gold even with 100+ people around. All of those requires some practice and organization.


You know, that part of the crowd that successful in Hunt mostly not write on a forum because they are good as it is. Leftover and wannabe is the people that post their tearful experiences on a forums, but they a vocal minority.

I propose you a read on a subject "forums beg for solution" - http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/tam...e-forum-tiger/
The very first paragraph is hilarious looking at what a mess General forum became.

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It is in fact a competition, except that most ppl don't like it! Ppl are indirectly forced to do it because of the reward if one wants to keep up with other! If the alli-seal reward was taken away, I dare to say all those NMs would just wander alone in the field!

it is a competition, the fact is, it was not designed to be one.

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Originally Posted by Angelfish51

Ppl are indirectly forced to do it because of the reward if one wants to keep up with other!

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actually, no one is forced to do anything.
they zerg hunts because its the fastest and cheapest way to gear up to high level content.
that's all.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

It's a competion - receive information, get in time, organize your party properly to get gold even with 100+ people around. All of those requires some practice and organization.

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Nope. Real competition would involve open world pvp to see who deserves to claim the prize. Seeing whose system can load faster or who is lucky enough to be in the vicinity of a mark is not competition.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

You know, that part of the crowd that successful in Hunt mostly not write on a forum because they are good as it is. Leftover and wannabe is the people that post their tearful experiences on a forums, but they a vocal minority.

I propose you a read on a subject "forums beg for solution" - http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/tam...e-forum-tiger/
The very first paragraph is hilarious looking at what a mess General forum became.

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You seem to like to use that website as a bible to support things you are in favor of. Newsflash: It's an opinion piece, nothing more, nothing less. Look at the comments for that article. Many people disagree with him too.

I got http://mmo-play.com/mmo-blog/mmo-communication 5 seconds after typing search into google. So what's your point?