Can Paladins get away with 30 Strength?

I've heard a lot about warriors going full strength, but can paladin MT get away with that as well? I hear you only need about 9k hp for a warrior, but what is the benchmark for paladins?

The thing is I am pentamelding topaz accessories for my warrior. I want to know if my paladin buddy would be better off sticking with ilvl 110 tanking accessories or pentamelded ilvl 90 accessories.

We are progressing in second coil together and I would like the option to switch between MT and OT.

It's totally depends on the party, assuming you're in static, but don't go blaming healers if you die, because they can't heal you fast enough.

There are certain points in coil that things hit like a truck. Anything HP based is naturally lowered such as lustrate, stoneskin etc.

There' realistically no difference if the healers can get to you it depends how much you respect your healers and healers you. Damage bursts are just that.

I have seen just as much 100hp critical heal points as much as no problems. You just can't foresee how fast and how often you get healed, even if you play a perfect pld.

There is also the fact that PLDs will never have enough CDs to cover the entirely of the fight, so PLDs going to have to eat the full damage much more often then wars.

I think every tank should have 2 sets of accessories: pure tank and DPS. I do it for Warrior, but probably PLD the same.

As for the stat points, there are still those places where you really need to stay alive. You mentioned "progressing" in coil. I'd suggest leaving some/all points in VIT and just switching accessories as appropriate.

Yeah what Rhaze said if your involved with progression full to your primary stat. It is much easier to swap out 2 accessories that dont have parry to dps ones then to constantly respec.

always full VIT for progression fight. I only use Str stuff when I used to the fight, and healer give me the OK.

the more VIT you have the more room your healer will have to do other stuff.

As HP values climb, 30 vit starts meaning less and less. I have a 30 str paladin. I can't really JUSTIFY it in any meaningful way because it doesn't really help for progression other than letting me do more damage, but you can get away with it. Hell, I'm almost at the point where I want to do 30 dex for the extra block rate, because paladin stats just don't seem to matter that much. Now, a 30 STR warrior? You can justify that. It makes your lifedrain skills that much stronger, and once you reach a certain HP value for a given battle, more HP doesn't really help all that much.

If a War can do it there's really no reason a Pal couldn't. In the end the relative healing that needs to be done is about the same between the two. If you're surviving the hardest hits there's not much reason to continually add vit.

The main thing with War is that the strength goes somewhat farther with their damage skills.

Did T9 first kill as 30 VIT. Did 2nd kill the following week with 30 STR (and a couple pieces of new gear, but net -~300 HP compared to first). Didn't really notice the difference in survivability.

Good healers matter more than 30 VIT.

Definitely go for the i90s if you want to be prepared for the future. They are unquestionably the best balance of STR while still being tanky.

Okay, thanks for the input! We are working on t8 at the moment and dps + allagan field is the issue rather than tank deaths. I think I am leaning toward having the pally gear more strength.

I'm sure PLD "could" get away with STR but it wouldn't make as big of a difference as warrior(Unless OT in Sword Oath) its just the nature of IB being the reason warrior can get away with lower hp not to say PLD couldn't though.

IB isn't "the" reason STR WAR MT works or that it can get away with lower HP (because PLD can too). Unchained is, mostly. For fights with tank swapping, "Unchained" uptime is very high when you count "Defiance off" as Unchained.

Sure why not. While you are at it make sure you get yourself a nice set of Dragoon armor that should boost your Str even more. Don't forget that nice set of Piety rings to increase your mana pool.so you can spam cure to keep the Healer alive. :mad: If you don't want to be a PLD then go play a Mongo Smash. Don't make us look bad!!!!!!!!!!!

Then when you go and tank your 1st boss make sure you try real hard to stay behind him so he can't hit you with his special attacks. I know it's hard to do but you will figure it out eventually. It takes lots of practice.

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Originally Posted by Jarvix

Sure why not. While you are at it make sure you get yourself a nice set of Dragoon armor that should boost your Str even more. Don't forget that nice set of Piety rings to increase your mana pool.so you can spam cure to keep the Healer alive. :mad: If you don't want to be a PLD then go play a Mongo Smash. Don't make us look bad!!!!!!!!!!!

Then when you go and tank your 1st boss make sure you try real hard to stay behind him so he can't hit you with his special attacks. I know it's hard to do but you will figure it out eventually. It takes lots of practice.

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Be sure not not hit the boss anymore once you are the highest on hate list. Don't want to do more damage to it than necessary. While you're at it, don't use Halone combo ever because it does damage. Flash only.

Don't act like tanks do 0 damage and can do nothing to improve it.

As a tank, points should be going into VIT. Especially as a PLD because they have lower HP compared to warriors. Having that extra HP makes it easier to live through things like primals and coil. 30 VIT is a significant amount of HP, I want to say around 250. When I was new to PLD, I thought STR was worth it for the parry, but there are +parry stats on most tanking items.

Sure, there will be times when you OT and you literally sit on your butt and DPS. That's why it's good to have STR accessories to switch into when you go OT (though, I wouldn't recommend switching all of your accessories if you have to pick up adds).

Warriors and Paladins have the exact same eHP.


If you know what you are doing go STR, if you don't stay VIT.

7600 is a safe number for MTing t9. That's how hard beak will hit for with only shield oath for mitigation. (Extremely rare but a measurable bench mark) 8k makes it so you pretty much can't be one shot.

The first step would be to swap in str accessories as needed. If you are full str on the right side and still have room to spare start changing your stats around.

I run a 30/30 PLD and a 30/30 WAR which covers me for everything I tank. I only use WAR for t8 and am PLD for 6-7-9.

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Originally Posted by Jarvix

Sure why not. While you are at it make sure you get yourself a nice set of Dragoon armor that should boost your Str even more. Don't forget that nice set of Piety rings to increase your mana pool.so you can spam cure to keep the Healer alive. :mad: If you don't want to be a PLD then go play a Mongo Smash. Don't make us look bad!!!!!!!!!!!

Then when you go and tank your 1st boss make sure you try real hard to stay behind him so he can't hit you with his special attacks. I know it's hard to do but you will figure it out eventually. It takes lots of practice.

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This is a good example of why some people shouldn't post.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

7600 is a safe number for MTing t9. That's how hard beak will hit for with only shield oath for mitigation. (Extremely rare but a measurable bench mark) 8k makes it so you pretty much can't be one shot.

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Agreed. This is about how much I had for our first T9 kill, then I got more drops the next week and swapped to 30 STR. Net loss of maybe 15 VIT. Still did fine, had about as much.

Not that progression experience should be the sole factor of one's reasoning, but people screaming "OMG MAX VIT NEVER STR" should really clarify how much they have actually tanked, and if they party with static healers or not.

If you want extra str, you could use i90 crafted jewels pentamelded who will give you a better vit to str trade off

7600 is a safe number for MTing t9. That's how hard beak will hit for with only shield oath for mitigation. (Extremely rare but a measurable bench mark) 8k makes it so you pretty much can't be one shot.

The first step would be to swap in str accessories as needed. If you are full str on the right side and still have room to spare start changing your stats around.

I run a 30/30 VIT PLD and a 30/30 str WAR which covers me for everything I tank. I only use WAR for t8 and am PLD for 6-7-9.

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Originally Posted by Selli

When I was new to PLD, I thought STR was worth it for the parry, but there are +parry stats on most tanking items.

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str increased the amount of damage you parry not how often

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Originally Posted by Nabian

str increased the amount of damage you parry not how often

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If you read Strengh under the Attributes section of your profile in-game it says, "Affects physical melee damage, as well as damage prevention by parrying and blocking."

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Originally Posted by Selli

If you read Strengh under the Attributes section of your profile in-game it says, "Affects physical melee damage, as well as damage prevention by parrying and blocking."

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Exactly. Raising strength raises the percentage of damage that you prevent with parry/block.

Dexterity increases how often they occur; not by enough to make it worth stacking, though.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Exactly. Raising strength raises the percentage of damage that you prevent with parry/block.

Dexterity increases how often they occur; not by enough to make it worth stacking, though.

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I was always told that it increased block and parry rates as well. They should word it better.

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Originally Posted by Selli

I was always told that it increased block and parry rates as well. They should word it better.

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All you have to do is mouse over DEX, directly under STR.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

All you have to do is mouse over DEX, directly under STR.

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Why would I have bothered to look at Dexterity when I know it's a ranged thing? I'm also talking about 3-4 months ago when I first started leveling my Pally, which was only my second class in this game. None of the end-game tanks at the time ever corrected me, they simply told me constantly, "Go Vit." So I was always under the impression it blocked attacks as well. My mistake.

Point was that mousing over everything in the character sheet does not take much time or effort. Regardless of whether you're new or not.

PLD can do with 30 STR but not say easy to get away compared to a WAR though.

I have ran T8 with a PLD MT that goes for STR build but he have pentamelded i70 accessories (that was before patch 2.3). No problem. Those guys cleared T9 so I don't think he has an issue in T9 either.

depends on content and group composition, I solo tank T9 so i make use of all the VIT i can get. But yes, you can get away with +30 str once you are comfortable doing the content.

For progression, abit more HP means you get better chances at seeing the later phases, thats why the new i90 jewelries will be valuable for new coil for other classes.

In terms of going for 30 STR, you give away some HP and gain more enmity and more block / parry. Let's do some math to see if this is worth it.

With 30 STR build you lose approx 7% HP and gain 6,3% enmity. However, if you hit the Parry / Block treshold (1% reduction for 67 str for Block and 1% reduction for 40/41 str for Parry), you can gain additional 2% damage reduction. Lets say you got 375 STR without the full STR and 405 with the full STR (that gives you additional 1% from block and parry). In that situation you lose 5,6% overall EHP and gain 6,3% more enmity generation.

All in all if you have problem with enmity hit 30 STR. Just remember to hit the treshold because if you add 30STR and will stay between 364 and 405 it won't give you any additional damage mitigation. In other case you sacrifice 5,6% EHP but gain 6,3% more enmity.

This is simple math, I did not took the block chance and probability of blocking into the calculation. But it should give you overall look about the changes 30STR and 30VIT does.

Why in the name of Odin's beard would anyone invest in 30 STR for enmity generation? A factor which is only ever a problem for the first ~3 GCDs of any given target, at best.

If you're investing in STR, it's because you have more VIT than you need and you want to dump more DPS on. Doing it for literally any other reason is extremely misguided.

You need extra enmity to use stun and shield bash from time to time - and stun does brake your combo (that mean free room to not generate addition enmity). Remember that BLM getting firestarter few times in a row with ilvl110 weapon can burst you away. PLD is not doing 900 crits from their x5 enmity generation skills like WAR does. We do ~~450 with FoF at best, that is 4500 enmity which can be bursted down in seconds within 2 hits from BLM. Also remember that our 1st hit in combo, does not do additional enmity, so we have 2 GCD's in that case to suistain on 4500 enmity, and that is crit on FoF. If BLM crits two times in a row with firestarter you are done.

We are not WAR's, we are not able to do that much enmity - we have to fight for it. They can open with Steel Cyclone (that is 17% better than Flash) and start butchering and they are quite set.

When are you using Shield Bash (and I'm assuming you meant Swipe for the non-Stun) "from time to time" that it is in any way risking your enmity (or does anything to begin with)?

Leviathan add? You don't really need to hold hate on it at all. It's only ever hitting anyone (should be you, but doesn't matter if not) for the first 20% of its life.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

When are you using Shield Bash (and I'm assuming you meant Swipe for the non-Stun) "from time to time" that it is in any way risking your enmity (or does anything to begin with)?

Leviathan add? You don't really need to hold hate on it at all. It's only ever hitting anyone (should be you, but doesn't matter if not) for the first 20% of its life.

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Yes the swipe, sorry I'm at work, cannot check everything now ;)

And yes that does risk my enmity generation because it's not off-gcd. That makes another 2,5sec gap between combo moves. (also it does not produce additional enmity).

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Originally Posted by silvach

We do ~~450 with FoF at best, that is 4500 enmity which can be bursted down in seconds within 2 hits from BLM. Also remember that our 1st hit in combo, does not do additional enmity, so we have 2 GCD's in that case to suistain on 4500 enmity, and that is crit on FoF. If BLM crits two times in a row with firestarter you are done.

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Pity Spirits Within doesn't generate additional enmity with how hard it hits. :/

Yeap. It's additional 700-800 enmity every 25 seconds. It's too low to make it essential during fight but it's quite OK as opener. Flash + SW can do about 1600 enmity, it's still 1 good BLM crit but it can cover the time you need to use the Savage.

However, as said before, SW cooldown is too long to make it essential.