Not liking Frontline? Also, is there a point in brining a melee?

Am I the only one not liking Frontline?

First of all, there's nothing to work towards. Unless you really enjoying it and won't get bored of it, the only reason to do Frontline is to get tomes when you feel dungeons are too much of a bore. For me, progressing to better gear and getting stronger has always been a big factor in what kept me pvping in other games. I know it would be a big issue if the pvp gear were too strong but if there's nothing to progress towards at all, it takes a lot of drive out of pvp after awhile.

Second, melee is a freaking mess right now. There's pretty much no reason to bring a melee except to limit break a healer. Unlike in other games, melee don't even really have more HP or defense than range. Monks have it especially bad. They have as much def and HP as a bard but less damage due to not being able to attack and DoT multiple enemies from afar and less survivability cuz they have to charge into the fray of things. Their natural mechanics of relying on lightning and positional just kills their damage potential and knocks them off their specialized role, single target damage.

The only range that has a big comparative disadvantage is black mage because they have to cast. However that weakness is more than made up for the fact that they have the highest damage potential and that you usually always have people to back you up.

The only advantage I see in melee is that most people tend to go for the range and healers first, probably cuz they feel melees just aren't as threatening and I don't blame them. What they don't realize is that melee goes down faster than anyone else cuz they have very little means of escaping.

I have never seen a melee top the DPS chart, ever. I do more damage as my marauder than I do as my monk and dragoon. My range classes can do twice as much damage as my melee and though I do do more aoe damage as my range (which is another advantage), that is not enough to make up for the damage difference. I wouldn't complain if melee has more single target damage but thing is, they don't. I haven't done any extensive testing but from what I can tell, they don't do more single target damage at all. Maybe there are some melees out there who is absolutely dominating and the rest of us are just noobs, which is possible, but I have never seen such people, ever.

Just the other day I had 11 kills, 1 death. I usually Dps in the high 30k zone during most matches. While Monks don't have the best set of skills for PVP, with some creativity, we can be useful. Running into a pile of casters and slamming our silence can annoy the heck out of them. :-) Swapping to our wind stance at the proper moment, using our rush, burst run and TP renewal skill comes in handy for chasing people down. Perfect balance combined with slamming our cone aoe can also raise some havoc. If nothing else, pester a healer so they can't sit still or watch their group mates.

I've done 118K damage as a monk, but as low as 38k. On average I'll pull 60 - 80k damage, but it varies greatly depending on how much fighting you are actually doing. Some games it can be difficult to keep up with positional requirements as well.

If I am in a group with no other Melee but all casters, then I will usually have to work harder for kills. It isn't uncommon for people to be dead before I can even reach them!

http://i.imgur.com/18mLBNK.jpg

As a MNK I am severely reliant on my healers; to the point where I don't even want to queue without a healer with me. If I get a healer who can keep me up then it is beautiful.

I'll post a video within the next couple of days. Have about 18 matches recorded that I need to comb through.

lol i average 10kills per game as a drg even while going for OP's and def spots, best thing about playing drg for me is fking over all casters they are so squisy lol... then again i have alot of wolves den experience and utilize all my pvp abilities to its fullest. A good drg/monk should be able to solol a heals in frontlines.

There must be a lot of LB action to hit 109k. I save LB for the casters.

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Originally Posted by vcjester

There must be a lot of LB action to hit 109k. I save LB for the casters.

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LB only does 5k on LB 1 - I may have used it twice in that game, tops.

I do agree that it's very tough on MNKs since you have to get GL3 for full damage unlike other classes - outside of Axe Kick and Perfect Balance it'll take time to build that up and if you don't stay engaged then you lose it fast. But I think their role changes slightly from PvE to PvP, i.e. they seem like more of a Swiss Army Knife to me. When I play Monk I don't care about topping the damage charts, I care about assisting my teammates and winning skirmishes. If my BLM can out-dps me then that's fine as long as I can pressure the healers enough so that BLM can nuke their target. Focusing solely on damage is shortsighted in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

I don't care about topping the damage charts, I care about assisting my teammates and winning skirmishes. If my BLM can out-dps me then that's fine as long as I can pressure the healers enough so that BLM can nuke their target.

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Except that the doing the most damage you can do & pressuring the healers go hand in hand. You pressure the healer by destroying them, and you win these skirmishes by doing the same thing to everyone else. Maximize your damage against those healers/squishies and you will be doing your job; add that to the BLM damage that you mentioned and things will melt.

How much magic defense does a monk have? I know my black mage is pushing 600 in a mix of ilvl 90 and 70 gears, I read on these forums that Drgs were very low on this stat, is it the same for monks?

Lol Nothing is funnier than breaking out the LB on a single SCH or WHM ...DRG , sigh but that Attune tho

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

Am I the only one not liking Frontline?

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1. Morale is not good for the game at all. WoW has nerfed PvP power as well. Not everyone playing PvP for the gear progression like you.

2. My main is BRD and I recently is playing Monk to undertand its mechanic in Frontline. No, it is not in a mess right now. If you are refering to unable to kill a healer one vs one, it is not only meele. No DPS is able to win against healers of any kind in 1v1 at this moment. Healers can kill both BRD and BLM easy as well.

I'm starting not to enjoy Frontline just because Immortal Flames can't keep it together, even the basics and suggestions in chat fall on deaf ears. I think it needs a tutorial or something.

I can understand not being "into it" because there are no tangible end rewards if you're not interested in eventually going back to Wolves Den, or glamour, or desynthing Wolf Mark items to grind your dlvl. I thought I would hate it because there was nothing to work towards, and that I should do hunts instead because it's what I "should" be doing.

Doing too much "should" makes you burn out. I needed Frontline.

Only thing I can tell you, as a healer watching bad melee: stop chasing enemies so far. At a certain point you need to give up and regroup, unless your whole party is going with you. Focusing fire wins battles. LB'ing casters/healers isn't your only role.

Why would anyone need a very specific reward in pvp tho o.o Its all about the fame. Thats your goal here, carrots just shouldnt exist in pvp

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Originally Posted by ZhycranaDranix

Lol Nothing is funnier than breaking out the LB on a single SCH or WHM ...DRG , sigh but that Attune tho

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thats y u save your spineshatter dive & LB :P its the wambo combo lol

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

I can understand not being "into it" because there are no tangible end rewards if you're not interested in eventually going back to Wolves Den, or glamour, or desynthing Wolf Mark items to grind your dlvl. I thought I would hate it because there was nothing to work towards, and that I should do hunts instead because it's what I "should" be doing.

Doing too much "should" makes you burn out. I needed Frontline.

Only thing I can tell you, as a healer watching bad melee: stop chasing enemies so far. At a certain point you need to give up and regroup, unless your whole party is going with you. Focusing fire wins battles. LB'ing casters/healers isn't your only role.

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I love it when Melee chase me on Bard just so I can ambush them with my group.

There's a lot of variables, but if you have a group that'll stay together and has 2 to 3 healers, it probably won't be hard to stay alive. Most people want SCH/WHM/BLM dead first while just doing CC moves on melee to keep them off your healers and casters.

I went DRG once with another DRG and 3 healers and we absolutely wrecked stuff.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

Except that the doing the most damage you can do & pressuring the healers go hand in hand. You pressure the healer by destroying them, and you win these skirmishes by doing the same thing to everyone else. Maximize your damage against those healers/squishies and you will be doing your job; add that to the BLM damage that you mentioned and things will melt.

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When I say "pressure healers" I'm referring to interrupting them through stuns and constant damage regardless of how high it is. Damage doesn't always equal utility. If you're keeping a healer from doing their job and your team is able to eliminate a target because of your efforts what difference does it make that the numbers show up under someone else's name? As long as you win the skirmish, you've done your part and secured an objective.

The problem with relying only on damage charts in Frontlines is that it's completely misleading in terms of measuring your job's value. I've seen a warrior top the damage charts because they ran after every enemy they saw; they fought on the roads away from objectives, made their healers chase after them constantly, and wailed on targets that were being gang-healed by 2 scholars and a white mage. The guy contributed nothing to our team and was more of liability so we quit healing him when he ran off on his own. But he had 50k more damage than the next guy!

I agree that monk gets a bad deal because of Greased Lightning, but I wouldn't go as far as OP and say that melee is "a freaking mess right now."

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I think it needs a tutorial or something.

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yea, tutorial would be great. I know there is something in DF description but it needs to tell ppl to not use PVP gear. Have seen so many ppl in i70 warwolf gear and some of them even in i55 wolf gear. They drop like flies without doing anything there. I always tell ppl to use regular pve gear but they dont listen.

Every class has their troubles.

PLD- Pro's, Good CC/Defensive flag point stalwart. Cons: limited range/low dmg output.
BLM- Pro's Stellar DPS output, Massive CC Mitigation, High burst damage. Cons-low defensive/hp
SMN- Pro's massive Dot pressure/High Burst/. Cons- Minimal CC Tri-disaster/Blizzard II /Low Defensive/HP/Pet Survivability.
MAR/WAR-High Burst, Good Survivability. Decent Peeler. Cons Low CC, Outside of burst minimal dmg output.
BRD-Pro's Interrupt King, Mobility, CC, Dmg Sustainable. Cons Survivability, Low Burst (compared to casters).
MNK-Good Dmg output, Good CC, PvE/PvP Axekick, Somersault kick, Perfect Balance, Arms of Destroyer, Good utility. Cons- Positional Req, Limited Mobility outside of FoW and SC.
DRG- Good Damage Output, Mobility, Piercing Talon for range/ 3 jumps Decent Survive. Cons Positional req,
WHM- High AoE Healing Output-Player Sustainability High, Sustainable Dmg output, Good CC (cliff throwers) Holy, Repose, Blizzard II, Fluid Aura. Cons- Low Defensive Mitigation.
SCH- High Defensive Mitigation, Excellent Single Target Healers, Good AoE Defensive Mitigation, Sustainable Dmg output. Cons- Very Very Limited CC (outside of 2.28 Miasma Nerf) Blizzard II & Aura Blast.

Every class has it's niche' learn to work around it, you can't win them all. If you're getting pummeled and cannot excel at your desired class you have two options.
Quit that class..
or...
Get Good; Just that simple.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

I've done 118K damage as a monk, but as low as 38k. On average I'll pull 60 - 80k damage, but it varies greatly depending on how much fighting you are actually doing. Some games it can be difficult to keep up with positional requirements as well.

If I am in a group with no other Melee but all casters, then I will usually have to work harder for kills. It isn't uncommon for people to be dead before I can even reach them!

http://i.imgur.com/18mLBNK.jpg

As a MNK I am severely reliant on my healers; to the point where I don't even want to queue without a healer with me. If I get a healer who can keep me up then it is beautiful.

I'll post a video within the next couple of days. Have about 18 matches recorded that I need to comb through.

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This guy right here is a CRAZY GOOD Monk. Ive had the pleasure of PvPing with him quite a bit. You best believe he knows his shite.

It's kind of funny, because all everyone does is stack Melee and healers.

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Originally Posted by Xenolithium

It's kind of funny, because all everyone does is stack Melee and healers.

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What? Really? You kidding? All I ever see in my groups are Healers, Bards, Summoners, and Black Mages. I see maybe 1-2 Monks or Dragoons per game. Aside from that, every other Melee I see on my teams are Paladins, though that's probably because I'm Immortal Flames. I don't even think I've seen a Warrior on my teams, yet. <.<

Lest we not forget monk's one ilm punch

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I'm starting not to enjoy Frontline just because Immortal Flames can't keep it together, even the basics and suggestions in chat fall on deaf ears. I think it needs a tutorial or something.

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im starting to feel the same way with twin adders.
i even tried to talk myself and suggest things but it goes in 1 ear and out the other
its fun when everyone tries, but losing because people arent talking or forcin B to go mid
for days and not helping others before doing so is annoying. the fun feel is slipping tbh

Just a heads up for the DRG out there, there's a pvp ability that reduces someones INT by 20% (40% upgraded) for 10 sec (15 sec upgraded) that's super useful for throwing on that BLM or SMN during a skirmish. I usually pop that on someone every time its up. Also using the move that removes the positional requirements is amazing to get your buff off right in the beginning and add an extra dot with that one combo. If they run, I save meh jumps. Also while chasing someone, do the throw-your-lance move at em. Any damage is better than no damage (and two different TP up abilities, hell I'm not even afraid to sprint). Oh and the turn around quickly, do the jump back move, and turn back around. Good way to push yourself forward quickly or even escape if needed (backwards jump + sprint)