The real problem with hunts; impact on the community.

I'll keep the story short.

I joined a hunt party via Party Finder. Nice folks. We're all actively scouring the zones for Bs and As, it's slow going but we're having some success.

We're often running parallel to a zerg horde from a fairly well known hunt LS.

Our group stumbles upon an A, we're idling for a minute or two to gather, nobody else shows up. We engage the mob (Forneus), and about 50% into it's life the horde shows up. One of my friends is in this LS/Horde, and immediately became angry that we had pulled the mob. I'm not in their LS. I had no idea they were coming, nor did I have any duty to report the mob.

This is the problem with hunts. Everyone wants to be at every hunt, and becomes slighted/angry/whatever that they cant be. I felt genuinely bad that my friend was upset, and words were passed, but this content is bringing out the worst in people. I've seen so much nastiness passing between players over these perceived slights since the introduction of hunts, that I'm genuinely concerned about it's impact on the community.

Do I have a solution? Not really. Perhaps an Allied Seal weekly limit of 300 or 400, to take the pressure off of this rampant, break-neck farming people are feeling compelled to do. Anything would be better than the current system, really.

TBH - yesterday the S-Rank in South Thanalan showed up.


After doing the Trigger-FATE 2-3 Times, i was quite disappointed that someone pulled before I arrived (but enough ppl gathered so i couldn´t even target this enemy because it dissappeared from my screen - not being an PS3 player!). The community got really angry, and myself - I like this Hunter´s Code when you cast out a Pull Time to at least gather some ppl together...

But you have always someone who start´s before.

But there is always the other side, and as i got inside myself i was thinking - someone did really work on that, spawning it and i understand whilst some people want as much ppl as possible to share the reward, you really don´t want the whole server to gather together. What flipped the switch was another thread where the pull happened "before mr. happy arrived" - ppl seriously?!

I can clearly accept if people roaming around the world and spot for monsters, especially for B/A Ranks, it is ok if they kill them in their group and don´t wait for 200 people to show up. Because - let´s be honest - most people in Huntin LS are just sitting around in town idling or crafting, waiting for the spotters to announce a mob, and then rush up to it to snake some credits...

You notice already, that LS are getting quiter, and Groups keep their info for the dedicated group - which i am totally fine after rethinking it. If you wait for at least 20-30 people showing up, it´s more than enough.

Only thing that bothers me is those ppl who literally steal it... be it reseting it so the original group gets their credit reduced...
or by using this radar app to just port around, look up the minimap, next area, found one - zerg it down before anyone else has a chance...

The best solution is to make them force pop like Treasure Chest but with those papers you get from the Board. If you help someone you get X amount and if you had that paper you get a bonus. Simple. So those who wants a bit more reward than just daily/weekly then need to tag team with other players and help them.

The problem with hunts is that they're not competitive ENOUGH. All the drama comes from the intent and expectation to share them.

Decrease spawn timers, lock credit to the party that pulled it, and make them unleashable. Watch as all the drama and namecalling is replaced by sportsmanship.

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Originally Posted by Immut

Decrease spawn timers, lock credit to the party that pulled it, and make them unleashable. Watch as all the drama and namecalling is replaced by sportsmanship.

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My experience in FFXI proves the logic of that statement to be the opposite.

I really wish they would do something with the hunts. If they can't improve them to alleviate this stress that they've put on the players then they need to just can the entire thing complelety.

It is not okay seeing people tearing each other apart in shouts in coerthas because Naul is dying every 2 seconds without people getting credit.

I have never seen so many arguments and bashing among players until this hunt system. It is disgusting and toxic.

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Originally Posted by DoctaruRavenbe

My experience in FFXI proves the logic of that statement to be the opposite.

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I remember Fafnir fights where a WHM from competing LS would stand behind the HNM and spam Cure IV on the main tank to force a Tail Swipe so the claim party died and the competing LS could grab it. When they created the /aid function where you couldn't receive outside help to eliminate the WHM strategy the compening LS' would all gather at the claim party, spamming abilities and bard songs in an attempt to lag and disconnect the claim party. And then all the other tactics for other HNMs.
If we had the "only claim party would get points" again we would see the same problems even though the NMs have much shorter spawn time simply because of the reward, we already see provoke reset being used by some parties.

It needs to go to pop items. As it stands now the amount of crying and bickering is absurd.

We have people using 3rd party tools to locate / track the marks. We have people yelling at each other in zone chat. We have people sending nasty tells to each other.

It's out of hand and needs to be reeled in. As it stands pop items will be the best solution.

That's why I'm not even bothering with this "content". And if I just happen to find a mark while I'm doing something else, I just kill it (or ask my FC and my FC alone). I'm not going to wait for the horde, I'm not going to shout, and I'm not even going to care if anyone gets angry or blacklists me.

That's what I did with Naul while I was doing the main scenario quests. There wasn't anyone in the vicinity, so I just killed him alone and moved on. I couldn't care less.

Too much drama around these things, and too much backfire if you try to do the right thing. I like being nice and all that, but this is not worth it because, no matter what you do, someone is going to be angry at you.

SE, if you somehow read this, implementing the hunts as they're now was a complete mistake. They're an utter disaster: they bring the worse of the community, and that's NOT exactly what we needed here.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

The best solution is to make them force pop like Treasure Chest but with those papers you get from the Board. If you help someone you get X amount and if you had that paper you get a bonus. Simple. So those who wants a bit more reward than just daily/weekly then need to tag team with other players and help them.

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This is actually how I thought the hunt system would work when I first saw previews of it. I thought people would get mark bills from the boards, then could form groups with friends and go out and find the monsters from their bills and, like the treasure hunts, rewards were shared between the party while the person with the bill who spawned the hunt gets the highest reward.

Although I do enjoy seeing more people running around the open world, presumably patrolling areas for marks to appear, this really has been a toxic system.

The hunts are just so frustrating for me.... but not because peoples pull before i arrive... but simply because i'm on ps3.... So that mean... i'm ''forever alone''.... My team dosen't ''load''.... The mobs dosen't load to.... I can only do nothing. That really pissed me off to see people get 15 alexandrite, 3 sands, 2 minions... all in the same day... and me (and probably a lot of ps3 players like me)... who still need to get it in the ''hard way''

WHY HAVE YOU DO THIS YOSHI-P !!!

You make people angry ! you separate the community in ''group'', the people who still want to play the game... and the no life who just want to do it easy... And ps3 players who cant do anything...

You have kill the Coil of Bahamut too. I never saw a T8 group in pf in 2 days...

Well, thx for that wonderful content ! <3

Their low HP and toughness is a factor: then again, they cannot give them as much HP than Odin or Behemoth, as it would kill the point of them being awesome.

I am pretty sure they can boost them to a higher margin though..

But yes, very disappointed that these 'hordes' on every map are communicating together, and even if you don't see any shouts, I so happen to be face-to-face with a Rank B I guess? It was on my way while doing my beast tribes in Sahagin, so of course I see a crab there with a name, it's never here usually.

Without hesitation, for me it's a 'challenge accepted' to hit that mob (you or me dying tonight buddy!) saw a say chat from a bard saying: WTF?

I'm like: is he referring to me?

one second later: came from nowhere: that so-called 'Horde' rushing and annihilate that poor crab in less than a GCD.

No one said anything, perhaps for me of some people around to report them, perhaps having that Radar that others are talking about, or having a LS with people spread on every maps.

Yesterday morning: I teleport to Coerthas. Was lucky, someone used Shout: Naul <pos> I happened to get my weekly kill, and that made me happy.

So..

Is hunting like a first-come-first-served? We are like Bounty Hunters. So of course everyone wants a piece. But the one who get it first gets the rewards (and those rewards are awesome btw)

I really don't know how SE will fix this Hunt. It's a really great idea, a change from these endless dungeon runs over and over.

People asked to get some open world stuff: now we complain that it's too easy (and it really is) - not counting the cheaters.

Can't wait the live letter on July 21th to see what he'll say about the Hunt, the Radar, and where the game is going, hopefully not down.

If we make an Allied Seal Cap. People will /still/ zerg the A and S just for a shot at the Blood Spattered log. It seems like a good idea at first but think for a second longer and it would not completely alleviate the issue.

I had such high hopes for the hunts. What we got was beyond horrible. Not once have I seen a mark come and go without name calling and hurt feelings from someone. Not ONCE. And what's up with Elite Marks? Let's designate a wimpy mob with something like 40k hp and a one-hour repop as a high-value target, and then assign THE WHOLE SERVER to chase after it. Is that really anyone's idea of fun?

When I first read about Hunts, I imagined that players would be presented with a list of Elite marks to choose from; B-rank would be suitable for a well-geared Light Party, A-rank would be a challenge for a well-geared Full Party, and S-rank would require the coordination of two or three Full Parties to down. While anyone could engage and kill a mark ONLY folks who had selected the bill would get allied notes. Mark repop rates would be fast, no more than five or ten minutes after the previous kill - so if another group got to your mark ahead of you, no biggie, just wait for the next pop - or, if the mark still has a lot of HP left, join in the fun and help down it quicker to the benefit of all. This is a system that would encourage cooperation.

The system we have fosters competition. This is not a pvp game. Outside of limited PVP arenas, it is not built for competition, and the players don't expect competition. When competition occurs, players become angry and accusatory; the game isn't working properly, so it must be the other group's fault! They pulled to early! They didn't shout the mob's location to give others a chance to join in! But why should they? Waiting for people is detrimental, under the system SE set up. The fault is SE's, but that doesn't stop players from blaming one another.

Worst of all, much like the HNM system in FFXI, success in hunting marks is not even remotely a matter of skill. The mobs are far too weak for that. No, it's a matter of LUCK, pure and simple. If you're lucky enough to be close enough to reach the mob before it dies, you get rewarded. If you're too far away, sorry, no jackpot, pull the lever and try again!

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Originally Posted by Immut

The problem with hunts is that they're not competitive ENOUGH. All the drama comes from the intent and expectation to share them.

Decrease spawn timers, lock credit to the party that pulled it, and make them unleashable. Watch as all the drama and namecalling is replaced by sportsmanship.

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There are not enough words to describe how wrong this is. You think the drama and namecalling is bad now, wait until the accusation of puller-bots start to fly. :rolleyes:

The HP pools on these mobs is downright pathetic.

The Marberry which spawns in outer Lanoscea is a rank A mob.

ROTFLMAO...The thing twitched for 3 seconds as people pummeled it's face into the ground.

I was like this poor pathetic thing is suppose to be a badass Nortorious Monster?

It lasted 3 seconds flat. After which shout chat blew up like an atomic bomb with all sorts of vile and abusive shouts, name calling, blacklistin...etc.

It is a serverwide mayhem whenever one of these things spawns.

Lol you enter an area where a mob a spawned...you see all these pathetic and pitiful shouts "where is it please give location", "please inv me to a party", "i80 bard looking for the hunt party", "please wait, please don't attack", "I am omw, please hold it", "omg this guy pulled", "someone grab aggro and reset it", "it's dead"......then the nasty shouts ensue

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Originally Posted by PreetWilson

The HP pools on these mobs is downright pathetic.

The Marberry which spawns in outer Lanoscea is a rank A mob.

ROTFLMAO...The thing twitched for 3 seconds as people pummeled it's face into the ground.

I was like this poor pathetic thing is suppose to be a badass Nortorious Monster?

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They're balanced for 8 people. I've been fortunate enough to find some A ranks with only 8 people and they are actually extremely tough. If they lived long enough to get off a few attacks, they'd likely wipe half the people zerging it. Especially that Zu in Outer La Noseca with the 3000 damage plus stun AOE. Frankly they're harder than any of the new dungeon bosses.

The solution to the issue is that it will resolve itself over time.

As the people who want it most, the raid orientated players, get their needed numbers from the hunts, they will leave the hunts reducing the current level of competitiveness for the hunts. Because the feature is fairly new, its expected that everyone is going to jump in to them all at once making open world content, which is already competitive, even more competitive.

Their is also no need to tweak the hunts because later on, these fights will be tough because the initial mobbing groups will have faded, leaving casuals to have at the hunts. We can look at some of the fates in Northern Thanalan that were easy with the initial leveling mobs but were near impossible with the casual follow up groups. Its the same thing.

The community needs to understand this. There is no need to do anything with the hunting feature atm because the current issues are only arising because the feature is new and everyone is doing it at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

The solution to the issue is that it will resolve itself over time.

As the people who want it most, the raid orientated players, get their needed numbers from the hunts, they will leave the hunts reducing the current level of competitiveness for the hunts. Because the feature is fairly new, its expected that everyone is going to jump in to them all at once making open world content, which is already competitive, even more competitive.

Their is also no need to tweak the hunts because later on, these fights will be tough because the initial mobbing groups will have faded, leaving casuals to have at the hunts. We can look at some of the fates in Northern Thanalan that were easy with the initial leveling mobs but were near impossible with the casual follow up groups. Its the same thing.

The community needs to understand this. There is no need to do anything with the hunting feature atm because the current issues are only arising because the feature is new and everyone is doing it at the same time.

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That is, the perfect solution!!!! Rather than work to make the system better just tell the 90% that can't or won't participate in this that they should just wait for the 10% to get what they want so they can grab the leftover scraps. A+ would highly recommend. /sarcasm

Honestly I do not know what the solution is or if there even needs to be one. However, what you said and the way you said it, probably isn't soothing anyone upset in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Their is also no need to tweak the hunts because later on, these fights will be tough because the initial mobbing groups will have faded, leaving casuals to have at the hunts.

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These people aren't going anywhere since they can make money off it. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...54#post2265154

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

That is, the perfect solution!!!! Rather than work to make the system better just tell the 90% that can't or won't participate in this that they should just wait for the 10% to get what they want so they can grab the leftover scraps. A+ would highly recommend. /sarcasm

Honestly I do not know what the solution is or if there even needs to be one. However, what you said and the way you said it, probably isn't soothing anyone upset in this thread.

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Untrue.
day1 : Fates die in seconds fix it, rewards too good broken, bla bla bla
day30: Fates are boring, fix it, inrease rewards broken bla bla bla bla
day180: Fates are too hard, no one does it, stop giving rewards, broken, bla bla bla bla
day current: I hate fates, no one does the, they get in the way, need better rewards broken, bla bla bla bla.

Lesson learned:
bla bla bla bla. People whine no matter what, because they expect the devs to play nanny to the community.

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

If we make an Allied Seal Cap. People will /still/ zerg the A and S just for a shot at the Blood Spattered log. It seems like a good idea at first but think for a second longer and it would not completely alleviate the issue.

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As someone said in another thread, remove the log then. At least from A's and B's.

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Originally Posted by Immut

*snip

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Yes but everyone and their mother wants a piece of them and not just one of them or some of them, but all of them. Players are indiscriminate, whether it's a B, an A or an S; they want the blood of all of them. Why? Because the price is right.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

...Our group stumbles upon an A, ... We engage the mob (Forneus), and about 50% into it's life the horde shows up. One of my friends is in this LS/Horde, and immediately became angry that we had pulled the mob...

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Your friend, and a good number of people with him, have really lost his mind on the game and became so addicted to the point to deny reality and wants the world will adapt to his needs. He, and all others as him, needs immediate parental control before their addiction to the game goes worse. I am not joking. This is serious.

I've heard of talk about "Team Wait vs Team Pull and Kill"

IMO...

B's. Pull immediately.

A's. Shout wait about 30-45 seconds. Pull.

S's. Well people pretty much do these as a large force anyway due to the conditions required to spawn them.. But if somehow I found one up I'd give it a couple minutes.

People suggesting you should wait for all 200 people to show up are insane. "Yay I found it but since I waited for 300 people I got no credit"