DPS Spot Justification

So I'm a returning player. My previous raid brick walled pretty hard on Twins back in like September or October and I kind of burnt out. I'm looking for class advice. I have Mnk, Blm, and Smn at 50 and would really like some insight into their performance in end game content.

Please note that while I respect the idea of "play what you find fun", that is not the aim of this thread. I am concerned with a rather large disparity between those three classes, specifically Smn and Blm, where even with the buffs in 2.3 I still don't see a reason to take a Blm over a Smn.

Thank you all for your time and thoughts.

If I was home and not on mobile, I'd type out some ipnions of mine. But since I'm not I'll give you some reasons why you would take blm over smn (even though I am smn main myself).

First off burst. As a smn, if you have to kill something fast, it just isn't possible, unless you already have some other enemy DoT'ed up and have 2 stacks of aetherflow to bane+fester, then you are a bit above drg on burts, until 3GCDs forward, when he has used both surges and vareity of off GCDs. But then, now you are at 1 or 0 aetherlow, now what? Well, you don't burst until you have aetherflows back.

Second good reason is vareity of classes. Less you have same classes the faster LB increases, so if you really only want 1 melee, it's usually best to have smn+blm+brd for LB's sake. (I know, having only 2 same classes doean't reduce the speed SO much, but still, what if you end up with lb1 when you'd need lb2 for some melee lb or so to kill something off and fast)

As for the insight: a good smn is usually always welcome to any fight, blm are having hard time on T7 or 8 can't currently remember which, since I have't gotten there yet due to summer break on my group and some other dificulties (our bard bailed on us etc.)

As to mnk, generally it's the highest Single target DPS(IF played correctly), but then again, if you have bard(should have one imo) you might want to consider DRG over MNK just cause of the piercing reduction (and drg is better burst than mnk) or take both and leave out a smn or blm depending on what the fight would want (taken that you have options, i.e your blm has mnk or drg geated up etc.)

My 2 cents.
Correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

Edit: owell, I guess I did still type out quite much. I so hope I didn't typo too much!

Monk. nuff said.

Mnk is the defacto sustained single target dps casters are not going to be interchangeable with this function anyway.

smn offers good sustained dmg as well with minor if any hinderance due to forced movement, you can and most good smns do hold aether stacks for upcoming bursts, where they are limited is they can only effectively dps 5 targets at a time (unless i missed them removing the nerf)

Blm offers the best aoe dmg on groups over 5, has poor mobility in comparison and relies defense buffs to null dmg to stay rooted as long as possible, also has no single target burst, since regardless of proc or not you are still waiting for the gcd, its really an unreliable repositioning mechanic.

So in my opinion on optimal current end game it would be (note i said opinion and optimal either can be interchanged and still work):
Smn: t6 t7 t9, drx
Blm: t8 (just for its utility in eating mines), st

I appreciate all the feedback!

So ultimately my decision will be Mnk/Smn it seems. Now it just depends which I find more fun lol.

Mnk's rotation is amazing, but I dislike the lack of aoe in 4 man content (I know it's trivial beyond myth farming but still).

a good monk can pull more aoe dps than a smn actually for speed runs, so long as it doesn't last extremely long, but most people dont even give monks the chance due to the overall image of monks not having real aoes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lollie

Mnk is the defacto sustained single target dps casters are not going to be interchangeable with this function anyway.

smn offers good sustained dmg as well with minor if any hinderance due to forced movement, you can and most good smns do hold aether stacks for upcoming bursts, where they are limited is they can only effectively dps 5 targets at a time (unless i missed them removing the nerf)

Blm offers the best aoe dmg on groups over 5, has poor mobility in comparison and relies defense buffs to null dmg to stay rooted as long as possible, also has no single target burst, since regardless of proc or not you are still waiting for the gcd, its really an unreliable repositioning mechanic.

So in my opinion on optimal current end game it would be (note i said opinion and optimal either can be interchanged and still work):
Smn: t6 t7 t9, drx
Blm: t8 (just for its utility in eating mines), st

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BLM will win in T6, it's just much harder (most BLMs I see do terribly in T6, as did I originally) and relies on your team to break chains, and if BLM gets Devoured legit or has to do LoS/Briar to avoid it, it gets wrecked. BLM wins in T8 too from sheer numbers, not even counting the MP issues which negatively impact SMN in some fashion no matter how small, while BLM loses nothing.

SMN can in theory win T7 due to movement and multi-DoTs, but MP does become an issue due to its length and the aforementioned multi-DoTs. SMN should also win T9 but from my experience and seeing other group's numbers, BLM usually wins or comes really really close post-buff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zamii

a good monk can pull more aoe dps than a smn actually for speed runs, so long as it doesn't last extremely long

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*Cough* *Cough*

Rock breaker for 130 potency, once every 7s (with GL3) + Arm of the Destroyer for 50 potency... Then add Howling Fist once per minute ...

Do you realise how this doesnt make sense ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coldea

*Cough* *Cough*

Rock breaker for 130 potency, once every 7s (with GL3) + Arm of the Destroyer for 50 potency... Then add Howling Fist once per minute ...

Do you realise how this doesnt make sense ?

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You can spam rockbreaker in Perfect Balance, but if a group's SR pulls are three minutes apart, they're doing something wrong.

Drrrragoooooonnn!!!! (Say it in your head like Dracula)

Just do it!

Syn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zamii

a good monk can pull more aoe dps than a smn actually for speed runs, so long as it doesn't last extremely long, but most people dont even give monks the chance due to the overall image of monks not having real aoes.

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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :)
You were serious ?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :)

Even a BRD will do more damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :)
You were serious ?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :)

Even a BRD will do more damage.

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Zamii is right. MNK can do aoe and hit hard on speed runs.

I don't know about doing more DPS than a SMN (though it wouldn't be too surprising if the pack was rather large and died quickly) but MNK can certainly put out solid AoE numbers with Rockbreaker and Arm of the Destroyer. The potency values seem small, but in general MNK has low potency skills and yet it's the king of single target DPS. Why? GL3.

That said, BLM will always reign supreme as the incinerator of trash mobs. BRD will be right up there as well due to being great at spike damage with the numerous damage buffs it has, as well as the AoE spam.

For speedruns, if you get a solid MNK in your party, any time you lose on trash pulls you more than get back on the boss fights :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

First off burst. As a smn, if you have to kill something fast, it just isn't possible, unless you already have some other enemy DoT'ed up and have 2 stacks of aetherflow to bane+fester, then you are a bit above drg on burts, until 3GCDs forward, when he has used both surges and vareity of off GCDs. But then, now you are at 1 or 0 aetherlow, now what? Well, you don't burst until you have aetherflows back.

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It's true you can't burst without stacks of Aetherflow, but please don't discount Energy Drain. Sometimes stuff needs to die quickly, and you don't have time to DoT it up and Fester. In this scenario, you can alternate Ruin2 and Energy Drain. This is for stuff that needs to die super quick but doesn't have the HP/time to justify full DoTs.

Personally, I use BLM or SMN depending on the fight and preference at the time. I prefer SMN whenever possible, but sometimes BLM makes more sense (or, you know, I feel lazy...).