When to pop buffs (monk)

So I've been reading a few guides and I'm conflicted on when I should pop my buffs as a monk (Blood for blood and internal release). Should I wait till I get three stacks of GL or do it as early as I can in the start of a fight? Obviously it does depend on the fight, when the boss can move out of range, etc., but I'm just asking in general.

I'd say it's about personal preference when you pop your buffs.
Personally, I like to pop them at the start of a fight during my rotation so I can use them throughout the fight as often as possible.

My opener for most fights is ToD -> Perfect Balance -> Demolish -> BfB -> Snap Punch -> IR -> Snap Punch -> HF -> Twin Snakes -> Steal Peak -> Dragon Kick and while it's probably not the most optimal opener to use, I personally prefer it the most so I'm ok with how it works for me~

Sooo, you just gotta find something that suits you the most basically :3

Thank you!! Really appreciate it. I guess I'm used to waiting till I get 3 GL but I didn't now if it was bad to wait. I will do what suits me then :)

Hmm? after your opener pop them as soon as they're CD is up, waiting just lowers your dps.

Btw your opener should be Perfect balance, Demolish, Blood 4 Blood, snap, Internal, snap, howling, twin snakes, steel peak, snap, bootshine, ToD, twin, demolish, then dragon combo.

PS i like your sig gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremias

Btw your opener should be Perfect balance, Demolish, Blood 4 Blood, snap, Internal, snap, howling, twin snakes, steel peak, snap, bootshine, ToD, twin, demolish, then dragon combo.

---

When you say "should be" are you implying that is the most optimal? If so, I don't see how that is the case when all GL3, Twin Buff, and Dragon Debuff are not applied in YOUR perfect balance opener. Not trying to downplay your opener, but that does not seem like the best it could be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Houston009

When you say "should be" are you implying that is the most optimal? If so, I don't see how that is the case when GL3, Twin Buff, and Dragon Debuff are not applied in perfect balance. Not trying to downplay your opener, but that does not seem like the best it could be.

---

Um, actually, I'm pretty sure all three of those get applied when you're in Perfect Balance. I'm always a little fuzzy on Dragon, because that's explicitly a form bonus, but the other two explicitly are not form bonuses so they are very definitely applied during Perfect Balance.

There's so many different ways it's definitely What works for u I do SP>SP>demolish>SP>DK>Tod>bfb-IR then start BS combo n fit in St n HF in there. Good luck on ur journey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Houston009

When you say "should be" are you implying that is the most optimal? If so, I don't see how that is the case when GL3, Twin Buff, and Dragon Debuff are not applied in perfect balance. Not trying to downplay your opener, but that does not seem like the best it could be.

---

wow....what kind of monk doesn't know that perfect balance only hinders dragonkick debuff. Allow me to educate you sir. This opener gives you 3 stacks of GL, twin buff, applies demolish twice, and touch of death once, both for full duration. Perfect balance will end by the time you get to dragon combo, and so dragon kick will be applied as you will be in stance from the prior demolish.

I hope you've learned something, and I suggest you try it on a practice dummy.

(please imagine me saying this in a very rude elitist tone of voice)

What are people talking about in this thread...you most certainly CAN apply Dragon Kick while in Perfect Balance. The only thing it hinders is the immediate application of Dragon Kick after Perfect Balance falls since you don't switch forms while in Perfect Balance (this also applies to autocrit on Bootshine). Bootshine will autocrit, Twin Snakes will apply it's buff, Dragon Kick will apply it's debuff, Demo/Snap/True Strike will all get their damage bonuses when used in Perfect Balance. No forms needed only positionals required.

I suggest every single one of you actually test it before telling others to test. Whooooo boy.

whhhhaaaat? I believe you sir! I still don't think i can squeeze a dragonkick into this opener. unless I do something like, Perfect balance, dragon kick, blood 4 blood, demolish, internal release, twin, howling fist, snap, steel peak, snap, perfect balance should end right here so then you can throw on ToD and another demolish before B4B wears off. yea i like it, lets do that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremias

whhhhaaaat? I believe you sir! I still don't think i can squeeze a dragonkick into this opener. unless I do something like, Perfect balance, dragon kick, blood 4 blood, demolish, internal release, snap, howling fist, twin, steel peak, snap, perfect balance should end right here so then you can throw on ToD and another demolish before B4B wears off.

---

So many of us use an opener similar to yours except we do DK instead of Twin Snakes. After you complete your PB combo then start with DK/BS (doesn't matter, both are the same since no form bonus), and then Twin Snakes. I ToD after I Twin Snakes that way it's fully buffed, and then you'll complete that combo with Demo. Then it's just business as usual.

So PB -> Demo -> BfB -> Snap -> IR -> Snap -> Steel Peak -> DK -> Howling Fist -> Snap -> DK/BS (whatever you feel like since it's non-form) -> Twin Snakes -> ToD -> Demo -> back to business. That is what I use as well as many others. The DK debuff will net you just slightly more damage than the Twin Snakes buff. This is the reason we use it first. In the end the opener is just an opener, and as long as you get GL3 fast the order isn't going to amount to very much of a difference. I just wanted to make sure everyone knows that DK can be applied in PB.

Please note that as you start going through you next combo (BS->True Strike) you will lose the DK debuff for 2 moves. The math apparently works out so that doing it in that order still nets slightly more than not letting it drop for those two attacks. I didn't bother doing the math myself since after a lot of testing the difference is minuscule either way, and the person providing the combo as well as doing the math is highly reliable and tests things along with doing the math. We're talking about only the first 20 seconds here anyway after that DK/Twin Snakes will always be up so I wouldn't stress too much on the opener as long as you are getting GL3 as quickly as you can, and getting your CD cycle started.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremias

wow....what kind of monk doesn't know that perfect balance only hinders dragonkick debuff. Allow me to educate you sir. This opener gives you 3 stacks of GL, twin buff, applies demolish twice, and touch of death once, both for full duration. Perfect balance will end by the time you get to dragon combo, and so dragon kick will be applied as you will be in stance from the prior demolish.

I hope you've learned something, and I suggest you try it on a practice dummy.

(please imagine me saying this in a very rude elitist tone of voice)

---

I only asked why you did not apply all GL3, Twin, and Dragon in perfect balance instead of ending w/ snap, you can do dragon kick instead. I know my job and i know gl3,twin,and dragon can be applied while in Perfect Balance.

I can now see how what i posted may have been misinterpreted and have fixed so you can better understand what it is I meant to say.

Also, you are trying to use an elitist tone towards me when majority of the people on our server says RareX are a bunch of elitist assholes? I guess we know where that mentality derives from xD

Shoulder Tackle > Touch of Death > Perfect Balance > Demo > Snap > Snap > IR > TwSn > Dragon Kick > Bootshine > BFB > TrSt > Steel Peak > Demo > Howling Fist

/thread

Lol no no, the way i had typed it out was making me sound like an elitist a hole myself, so I figured the tone should go with it. I end with snap because that gives me more time on GL, I was having issues ending PB with a DK then doing ToD and and a full combo and my stacks would fall off a half a second before getting demolish off, due to a skill speed issue. I was obviously doing something off key, But Why not do DK right after Demo? It just adds to all the damage during PB right?

you can pop buffs as soon as they are ready so they come off cooldown sooner as well, so you get to buff more the whole fight.
one thing to check is if youre going to pop ir, make sure the next skill youre going to use is not bootshine. bootshine crits 100% when in flank with form bonus, so youd just end up wasting 1 gcd cycle of ir.

off topic i think, but what i do is:

st > frac > (wait til gcd is halfway) > pb > demo > snap > snap > bfb > dk > ir > ts > xpot > boot > peak > true > howl > demo > tod > frac > flank combo, etc.

you get gl3 and ts on yourself, dk debuff + fully buffed dots (demo, tod, frac) on target.

i wait til half gcd before popping pb so i don't end up short with just 4 skills in pb by accident.

i use frac instead of tod after shoulder tackle because i would just apply a fully buffed one after pb ends. if i did use tod there i would just end up clipping it.

i use 2nd frac after pb opener with all my buffs active because fracture is worth it if you have buffs (specially ir) up, instead of using dk on that part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

what i do is:

st > frac > (wait til gcd is halfway) > pb > demo > snap > snap > bfb > dk > ir > ts > xpot > boot > peak > true > howl > demo > tod > frac > flank combo, etc.

you get gl3 and ts on yourself, dk debuff + fully buffed dots (demo, tod, frac) on target.

i wait til half gcd before popping pb so i don't end up short with just 4 skills in pb by accident.

i use frac instead of tod after shoulder tackle because i would just apply a fully buffed one after pb ends. if i did use tod there i would just end up clipping it.

i use 2nd frac after pb opener with all my buffs active because fracture is worth it if you have buffs (specially ir) up, instead of using dk on that part.

---

You use Fracture? I've had a DPS loss time after time parsing with it. not to mention the huge TP drain it causes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremias

You use Fracture? I've had a DPS loss time after time parsing with and without it. not to mention the huge TP drain it causes.

---

i use it as fluff because sometimes my next skill is bootshine while i still have 2s of internal release left and it would be a waste to use it on a bootshine. i rarely use fracture outside of that situation which is like basically when stars align in the universe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

i use it as fluff because sometimes my next skill is bootshine while i still have 2s of internal release left and it would be a waste to use it on a bootshine. i rarely use fracture outside of that situation which is like basically when stars align in the universe

---

Good reasoning sir!

I can show you my opener akachi when I log on if you want, i believe it to be most efficient(imo). I'd post it on here, but I don't want too many people to adopt it. :P
Btw, i wont get home 'til like 7pmish est, if you want to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Houston009

I can show you my opener akachi when I log on if you want, i believe it to be most efficient(imo). I'd post it on here, but I don't want too many people to adopt it. :P
Btw, i wont get home 'til like 7pmish est, if you want to see.

---

that's fine, i'll be in coils till around 9pm PST

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremias

wow....what kind of monk doesn't know that perfect balance only hinders dragonkick debuff. Allow me to educate you sir. This opener gives you 3 stacks of GL, twin buff, applies demolish twice, and touch of death once, both for full duration. Perfect balance will end by the time you get to dragon combo, and so dragon kick will be applied as you will be in stance from the prior demolish.

I hope you've learned something, and I suggest you try it on a practice dummy.

(please imagine me saying this in a very rude elitist tone of voice)

---

No.

When PB ends, all stance buffs go away. You won't be applying DK until you go through another full combo.

Don't be a jerk, especially if your facts are wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eissels

No.

When PB ends, all stance buffs go away. You won't be applying DK until you go through another full combo.

---

yep. that's why it's very important to have dk in pb opener. otherwise you'll have to do a full rotation without dk debuff on target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eissels

No.

When PB ends, all stance buffs go away. You won't be applying DK until you go through another full combo.

Don't be a jerk, especially if your facts are wrong.

---

Wroooooong, if you read the opener i posted, after PB drops there is a bootshine > ToD > Twin > Demolish....the dragon kick is applied after this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

yep. that's why it's very important to have dk in pb opener. otherwise you'll have to do a full rotation without dk debuff on target.

---

i agree with this now and i've incorporated DK into my PB opener, but do you think it should be in the second move of the PB rotations or last? I've started doing PB, demolish, B4B, DK, IR, TS, Howling, Snap, Steel, Snap..end PB..bootshine, ToD, TS, Demolish, dragon combo

it makes sense to me to do DK before the rest of the combo so the debuff is up for the snaps.

Pb-demo-snap-snap+b4b-DK+IR-Twin+pot-BS+steel-true+Howl-demo-frac-tod-Dk-twin-snap, then its just maintence. and to answer you DK should be 1 of the 2 last moves of PB so that DK and Twin are up thru the whole Bootshine and dot combo that are buffed with potion as well.

I personally don't like such streamlined bad-in-practice responses. Mostly due to the bad culture of parsing without a brain.

While it makes you look good in parses, 90% of fights are not dps but dps control. The best thing for a dps is to be flexible with the content and the party.

Squeezing a little out of buffs is just...no... I don't care if you're ubering, if it's not ubering at the right moment.

Holding back is just as important as going all out. Many fights you will want to hold back for burst situations or what is now known as "push" phases.

It really scales with party, rng, and content.

Mnks have below average burst rates and moderate burn rates, so IR/PB/BfB can make a difference sometimes.

If you know the content on hand and know your party, you would naturally know when to apply your buffs, because you are "seeing the future"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kukurumei

coolbeans

---

for our group at least, i don't hold back most of the time. the phase-pushing responsibility is handled by our other groupmates while i go ham. though i still slow down when we're really early on pushing phases.

i also acknowledge monk's weakness in bursting, so instead i try to maximize where we're good at: consistent damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

for our group at least, i don't hold back most of the time. the phase-pushing responsibility is handled by our other groupmates while i go ham. though i still slow down when we're really early on pushing phases.

i also acknowledge monk's weakness in bursting, so instead i try to maximize where we're good at: consistent damage.

---

yes, as mnks our main responsibility is keep stacks up, and that means knowing the fight inside and out and keeping constant combos going. It's all very straight foward with a mnk during the majority of any fight. The only thing we get to argue over is our opener, hence why this thread has taken the turn it did lol