Dear SE, please apply a sales tax to adjusting prices in markets

Dear SE,

yes please. It would save most of your customers a lot of nerves, and thus probably help strengthening your subscription base as well, if the handling of the market and economy would be a bit more less alienating to serious players.

Please help by getting rid of 1 gil undercutting (and most likely also some RMT-driven activites) by applying the 5% market tax not just to initially listing an item, but also to adjusting the prices of already listed items.

People would just resort to direct selling to skip the taxes completely. You already have a tax to sell items in the first place, so pushing a tax to readjust prices would just make undercutting more or less stay the same; if I am selling an item for the first time on the market, I can choose to just sell my item 25% less than the current cheapest seller and either force that player to eat a tax to readjust prices while also losing out from lower price plus the sales tax or said player can just remove the item from the market, wait a bit, then reenter the item at a lower price.

We already have people using the party finder as a way to advertise goods and skipping the tax, so your idea would just make people do that even more.

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

...applying the 5% market tax not just to initially listing an item, but also to adjusting the prices of already listed items.

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So simply you want "listing fee", I don't agree any listing fee as it will only make casual players harder to sell their item. ^^;

IMO If the reason was 1G under cutting, why not just suggest not allow relisting?
The seller need to buy the item back when he wants to withdraw(only charge the tax),
then it is same result (-5% relisting) but also create a record on the history. ^^;

Seriously, I believe everyone will undercut more if more restrction is added on selling.

No, just no.

If anything, they should remove the tax that already exists that does NOT benefit neither buyer nor seller.

I'd still undercut you by 1 gil, wouldn't change anything.

So you want a tax to prevent the free market economy from functioning properly. The cheapest item always sells first. Just because everyone lists their item for 10k doesn't mean you have to as well. I'd list and buy the one priced 9,999 everytime. Just like I'd shop at a 99 cent store before a $1.00 store every single time.

Oh god, not this crap again - this has been discussed here a GAZILLION times and so far NOBODY yet proved / argued sucessfully benefits of relisting tax.

You have no time or will to re-check and change your prices all the time? Well - BOOHOO!! Why should be those who can limited because of you?? Simply - no. It's fine as it is and market is so large that you can always find an area which you can "dominate" (at least for a while). Your sugestion is similar to imposing fee on running high level dungeons so other people will not run it all day because you have time to run it only once or twice a day - silly ...

Why didn't you put your price point at a more attractive level than I could match? You know what that 1 gil pays for? Advertising essentially, I'm at the top of the list.

This is how it works, adding on MORE fees will just damage the market and make people not want to use it. Think on your prices more, don't just throw them up there for whatever.

You already have retards selling items on the market at a loss to them. Add in more variables and they just might implode.

Here my protip. If you don't wanna to buy with taxes on it, but it in same city-state. If you see the Flames sign, buy it in Ul'dah; Twin Adder sign, buy it in Girdiana; or Maelstorm sign, buy it in Limsa Lominsa. But yes people will still get taxed when they sold it to other person. So in basics that person still lost the profit of selling it while other person get their tax-free items.

adding a tax on adjusting prices doesnt change anything.... people would still list the items with the 1g undercut... I can't see your logic here.

Also it wouldnt work as intended op. Every time you check your retainer for anything it would relist the items because if you call your retainer they are instantly removed from the market board listing even if you didn't change it and therefore subject to tax. I don't agree with a posting tax any, but they would have to tax people even if they didn't undercut because how the system works atm.

While this might stop people from undercutting each other by 1 gil, back and forth 8 times over half an hour, any new items placed on the market will still be free to juke you over, or when people price adjust, instead of undercutting by 1 gil, they'll drop it by thousands. Cheaper it is the less the tax right?

If they drop by thousands or perhaps hundreds all the better for the buyer, item will reach equilibrium sooner.

There are other ways to compete though then 1gil undercutting.

I will often buy stacks in the amount I need to hand in, or multiples of that number, for more gil per item then I'll pay for a larger stack. I am paying for not having to do the inventory shuffle. Then again I'll also buy that item for 1000 or some other interesting number, instead of the item listed for for 1 gil less...

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Originally Posted by Llyren

If they drop by thousands or perhaps hundreds all the better for the buyer, item will reach equilibrium sooner.

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But what about the seller? There are two sides to a transaction, y'know.

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There are other ways to compete though then 1gil undercutting.

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1 gil undercutting gets your item at the top of the list without tanking the price and screwing yourself (and everyone else listing that item) out of an unnecessary amount of gil. Seriously, there's nothing like listing an item then coming back to look and seeing that the price has dropped to fully half of what you originally listed it for due to undercutting. The market isn't just about buyers. Without sellers listing things, buyers have nothing to buy.

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I will often buy stacks in the amount I need to hand in, or multiples of that number, for more gil per item then I'll pay for a larger stack. I am paying for not having to do the inventory shuffle. Then again I'll also buy that item for 1000 or some other interesting number, instead of the item listed for for 1 gil less...

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And that's your prerogative; you can buy the most expensive one for all I care.

That doesn't mean that the market needs a listing fee. Just... no.

The deeper the undercutting, the better the profit for buying low and re-listing high if you think the market will support a higher price, and are correct. Market savvy sellers win too.

Most players are better off checking what the items have sold for recently and pricing in that range, whether it is lower or higher then the current bottom price. Looking at the current bottom price and dropping by a gil to be on the top of the list is either leaving gil you could have gotten out of that item on the table after yer done or pricing with the rest of the unsold items. The market only needs one of those non-selling items up to benefit the buyer that wants that item now and cost is no object ;)

If you want to keep price high, price higher in the range that is still selling in an acceptable timeframe, if you want gil soonest price in the lower end of the range.

Free price adjusting simply benefits the time rich player, who likely needs no help at all ;)

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Originally Posted by Llyren

The deeper the undercutting, the better the profit for buying low and re-listing high if you think the market will support a higher price, and are correct. Market savvy sellers win too.

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True. I've been known to get irritated at undercutting and buy out the entire market on what I'm listing, then relist.

The only problem comes when the quick gil encourages others to relist at the reduced price.

Well, I also tend to just say - It's free market and everyone can buy and sell everything for whatever gil they want. Personally I don't have much patience and inventory space for setting something in market and waiting for a week till it sells so I undercut not by 1 gil but by 10-25%, sometimes even more. That way I get rid of my leftovers in a day usually, get free money and free inventory slots.

One pays zero tax when buying an item in the same city the item is listed in. Unfortunately, I still don't think enough people realize this.

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Originally Posted by KonaKai

One pays zero tax when buying an item in the same city the item is listed in. Unfortunately, I still don't think enough people realize this.

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For those that do realize it, most purchases incur less tax than Teleport costs to get there.
Average teleport cost from one city to the next about 350 Gil.
The purchase must exceed 7000 Gil just to break even.
Or, for those slow travel types, airship 120 Gil comes with 2400 Gil break even point.
These break even points only account for Gil cost, not time cost to player.

That being said, if you are buying for more than 10K, you should definitely go to the listing city.

It should assist with listing an item and hopefully help stem the rampant 1 gil undercutting, I should have clarified. Its also for the benefit of those who don't know.

When listing something in a different city, there is no reason to undercut. Price match instead. Or undercut by more than it costs to teleport over.

Unless one counts on the ignorance of the playerbase and undercuts by 1 gil regardless, or don't give a crap. This is also a valid tactic...for now I guess.

Does not stop undercutting by 1 gil if selling in the same city though. But you can move the item to different retainer in different city unless the market is flooded.

The more people become aware about mb taxes the more fake muny can be saved and made.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

For those that do realize it, most purchases incur less tax than Teleport costs to get there.

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First of all - you can Return for free plus if you have OTP you'll have two out of three states covered without any other cost. On top of that - I have always one alt parked at each city just in case I need to purchase something and don't want to travel with may main there for whatsoever reason so I never pay purchase taxes ...

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

Dear SE,

yes please. It would save most of your customers a lot of nerves, and thus probably help strengthening your subscription base as well, if the handling of the market and economy would be a bit more less alienating to serious players.

Please help by getting rid of 1 gil undercutting (and most likely also some RMT-driven activites) by applying the 5% market tax not just to initially listing an item, but also to adjusting the prices of already listed items.

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Wow... it never ceases to amaze me....

Get this through your head: Undercutting is going to happen, regardless of by how much. Undercutting puts them at the top of the list. The only difference between 1gil undercuts and 905498432754392875432958743985g undercuts, is that the 1g slows down the value depreciation.

If someone undercut you by 500g, or by 1g, they still undercut you. They still put their goods in line above yours. No difference. Only difference, is that the 500g undercut is now making your goods worth less.

You should be happy that people are undercutting you by 1g, and not 40-50%.

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Originally Posted by Ramath

You should be happy that people are undercutting you by 1g, and not 40-50%.

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I have been know to buy that under-cutter's 50% discount, then re-sell it for my original asking price.
We are both happy, he got his money, and I got and additional profit.

No taxation without representation

more tax... the 5% they already charge upon sale is enough. undercutting is how prices drop to what they should be (see law of supply and demand). your item will rarely be devalued by under-cutters below what it is actually worth. when prices dip to their true value they will sell.

putting a tax on items at the time it is put on MB will just slow down the time it takes for items to reach their proper values. undercutting will still happen. just the last person to make the item will sell first always. in fact if i don't like you i can actually monitor what you have on MB, and keep items up chepaer than yours in perpetuity and there will be absolutely nothing you can do about it. you can't even take the item down without a penalty.

if you are looking for 500% markups then you have to expect to be undercut allot of the time. if you put 50-80% markups you probably won't be undercut as often. if you are clever you will control one of the items required for the craft so that while selling at a 100% markup it will appear on mb that you are selling break even/at a loss. then you will very rarely be undercut.

but ya if you buy mats for 150k and put it up for 800k.... you deserve to be undercut constantly untill the MB price is corrected to about 220-280k at wich point people will begin to buy the item. buyers are not stupid. everybody can look up the crafting items required and see they are being ripped off on MB. the only exception is when you are first to market, and gamers want to be first to own very difficult to obtian items (i95 moogle/garuda mh's, wp cotton etc.)