Blacklist Frustrations - SE Please Take a Look

So we all know that it's annoying that we can only blacklist 200 people. I don't know why that restriction is in place, but I'm not here to talk about that. Tonight I blacklisted someone, not for gilselling, but for being a jerk. And I ended up in a party with him THREE times!

Apparently, you can't join the parties of people you've blacklisted but you can join parties WITH people you've blacklisted, as long as the leader is someone you haven't blacklisted. What's worse, I've been matched up in Duty Finder with people I've blacklisted. It's happened half a dozen times in PvP and it's always a delight :(

If I blacklist someone, I don't want to be matched up with them at all, whether they're the party leader or not. Please fix this so that doesn't happen anymore.

Or at least give us the option to view all party members' names in PF before we join their PF group (we should have this option anyway, blacklist aside). Yes, players can always just leave right away but it creates unnecessary drama and they take the 30 min penalty if it's in DF.

So if you're solo queuing PVP and there's only just enough people to form a light party and one of them is blacklisted by you, the other 2 shouldnt get to PVP? Suppose another player comes into queue, who gets to party with the 3 people (who has nothing to do with you and the blacklisted's feud)? That latest person technically has less priority on the queue than you two.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

So if you're solo queuing PVP and there's only just enough people to form a light party and one of them is blacklisted by you, the other 2 shouldnt get to PVP?

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Unfortunately, the alternative is often "You again?! <rage>" followed by a "F, you, jerk! <rage> Oh, PvP timer is up. Now let's go work together as a 'team'..."

I'm personally more mature than that and can ignore a grudge for a few minutes if it's just PvP, but it still makes me really uncomfortable. But it's okay if others are uncomfortable as long as you get to play?

Time for me to respond with the obligatory "I pay my money too, blah blah blah" which may seem like a tired, stupid argument, but really is the ONLY argument. I can't imagine ANYONE plays this game to NOT have fun. So yeah.

Shamelessly bumping my own thread.

You join a party that is in pf, someone on your blist is there, you leave. It's that simple, if you feel bad because you took the last spot send the leader a tell. However The whole pint of blist someone is so that you don't have to hear from them so even if they are in the same party as you i if it isn't the leader, how much does it matter? 0%-10%(if they are friends with the leader). I have no issues running things with people I have blisted as long as they aren't in a leadership position. There are people whom name I memorized and will not run stuff with because they are awful and refuse to accept their faults. I'll join, leave and send the leader a tell if I took the last spot apologizing and it also reminds them to put df back up. if you get them in a dungeon for DF and they harass you or troll your party then guess what SE has a system for that, in which your offender will get temporally banned if he is in fact an offender.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

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Sounds a lot more complicated than not getting their group in the first place. Anyway, it's good you're cool with it I guess. I'm just surprised that I'm the only one that doesn't like the way it works now.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Sounds a lot more complicated than not getting their group in the first place. Anyway, it's good you're cool with it I guess. I'm just surprised that I'm the only one that doesn't like the way it works now.

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Nah I totally agree with you. I had issues with a few players in the past from a certain FC and blacklisted them all hoping I'd never have to see or hear from them again. However sadly as the end game pool of players for EX Primals was quite small at the time, I would constantly end up joining groups they weren't the leader of, but were already in. I wouldn't want to just leave as it's not fair that I have to miss out because of them, but it would make me extremely uncomfortable.

Also, just because blacklisting them means you can't see what they're saying, doesn't mean no one else can. Seeing one sided conversations about you knowing they're bad mouthing you is a horrible experience.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

I wouldn't want to just leave as it's not fair that I have to miss out because of them, but it would make me extremely uncomfortable.

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Wait, you join a party and you see people you don't like already in the party, you want them...to leave? Obviously you do, since you're lamenting on missing out if you leave so you do want to stay in it but you don't want the blacklisted people around. So you think they're worth less than you based on your personal experience with them and can make that judgement for the rest of the party?

You don't think this isn't abusable if the system does this for you automatically and works in DF? At all?

If they're blacklisted it shouldn't matter. You're not seeing any of their chat anyway. And if they want to intentionally tank whatever it is you're doing, then they can get reported.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Wait, you join a party and you see people you don't like already in the party, you want them...to leave? Obviously you do, since you're lamenting on missing out if you leave so you do want to stay in it but you don't want the blacklisted people around. So you think they're worth less than you based on your personal experience with them and can make that judgement for the rest of the party?

You don't think this isn't abusable if the system does this for you automatically and works in DF? At all?

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Did you even read what was posted? That's not what she's saying at all.

She's saying that for Duty Finder, the game should not allow you to join a party with any people you have on your blacklist. And for Party Finder, she's saying that the option to see all party members' names before joining would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by Astralos

Did you even read what was posted? That's not what she's saying at all.

She's saying that for Duty Finder, the game should not allow you to join a party with any people you have on your blacklist. And for Party Finder, she's saying that the option to see all party members' names before joining would be helpful.

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Yes, I read the post clearly. Mentioned 'leader', which has no bearing in DF so it has to be a PF and the words "were already in" implies that the blacklisted player is already inside before the poster joins. I'm not against the idea of being able to see the name of the players in the PF but the fact that the poster places himself before the blacklisted regardless of join order is there.

Like I've already said, for DF wise, who gets to decide who between the blacklister and the blacklisted gets to join the rest of queuing players that are already slotted and ready to go? The duty finder would have an extra layer to juggle with. Suppose you queue as a dps and gets put in a 7/8 duty finder that needs a healer. This healer has been blacklisted by you. But there's another dps in the queue who has no relations whatsoever to you or the healer but he's later in the queue. Should you be kicked out of the party slot so that the healer and that dps can enter your preparing party and be shipped off into the instance right away? Or make everybody else in the 7/8 wait longer until another healer comes by? And this is just one player's blacklist. Throw in everyone's blacklist and the server will have to keep shuffling until they get 4/8 players that isn't blacklisting each other...in a queue that is already making almost everybody wait. "oh player A doesn't want to play with player B, but player C doesn't want to play with player D so player D cant be put with A and C. There's player E but he doesn't want to play with A..."

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Sounds a lot more complicated than not getting their group in the first place. Anyway, it's good you're cool with it I guess. I'm just surprised that I'm the only one that doesn't like the way it works now.

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I'm so confused(the person below you as well) you say you shouldn't feel obligated to leave the party(which you aren't) because someone you blisted is in it. but if that person was in the party you wouldn't be able to join and have a chance to leave in the first place

However your argument if falty. If we used your rules, because if you had blisted the person you are already restricted from joining the party in the first place. it doesn't magically boot people because you have them blisted... By letting you join the same party you can just ignore them. You can tell when a one sided conversation is going on and temporary unblist them. In an overly true egocentric falicy The players with large blist of actual players(not rmt), are the ones people don't want in your party anyway, aka you form the sounds of it. You start fights because someone trys to tell you something is wrong or your aren't doing something right and you think you know better.
pushing cntrl +p to open party least then click leave is hard? I just don't get

I think you probably expect that if you blacklist all the PvP noob, PvP low rank, then there should increase your chance to party with only stronger and good people, and let the weak one into other side? Which is why :

-you don't like restriction of 200 people limited on blacklist?
-you don't want to have chance to be party up with blacklist ppl at all, even though it is solo queue?

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Originally Posted by Alise

I think you probably expect that if you blacklist all the PvP noob, PvP low rank, then there should increase your chance to party with only stronger and good people, and let the weak one into other side? Which is why :

-you don't like restriction of 200 people limited on blacklist?
-you don't want to have chance to be party up with blacklist ppl at all, even though it is solo queue?

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This would be exactly why the blacklist doesn't work this way...

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Throw in everyone's blacklist and the server will have to keep shuffling until they get 4/8 players that isn't blacklisting each other...in a queue that is already making almost everybody wait. "oh player A doesn't want to play with player B, but player C doesn't want to play with player D so player D cant be put with A and C. There's player E but he doesn't want to play with A..."

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It seems with over 2m players, this shouldn't be a big concern... And for the times it does happen, I'd rather wait a few seconds longer than have a group that is possibly unpleasant for everybody. Especially since blacklisting is usually reserved for extreme cases. If I blacklist someone because they're a jerk to me, I think there's a good chance they're also a jerk to others. This is not always the case of course but I think it is more often than not.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

I'm so confused(the person below you as well) you say you shouldn't feel obligated to leave the party(which you aren't) because someone you blisted is in it. but if that person was in the party you wouldn't be able to join and have a chance to leave in the first place

However your argument if falty. If we used your rules, because if you had blisted the person you are already restricted from joining the party in the first place. it doesn't magically boot people because you have them blisted... By letting you join the same party you can just ignore them. You can tell when a one sided conversation is going on and temporary unblist them. In an overly true egocentric falicy The players with large blist of actual players(not rmt), are the ones people don't want in your party anyway, aka you form the sounds of it. You start fights because someone trys to tell you something is wrong or your aren't doing something rigt and you think you know better.
pushing cntrl +p to open party least then click leave is hard? holy shit man what have I been doing wrong that I have been using buttons to cast fire, what makes my charceter do it without me doing anything?

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I don't have a problem clicking a button, I have a problem with the drama that happens once I leave a group that has someone in it who I don't want to play with. Party leader sends a tell "Why did you leave?" or the person you blacklisted starts running their mouth to the others, etc.

I am absolutely not suggesting that the black listed person gets kicked! All I want is the ability to know who's in a party before I join or to not be able to join at all if a black listed person is there. Duty Finder issues with this system aside, it should be easily doable for Party Finder groups and I have no idea why it's not.

Also, thanks for assuming my blacklist is comprised of all people I don't like and that therefore I'm the problem. You say my argument is faulty? I think THAT argument is faulty because:

a) my blacklist is comprised of almost entirely gilsellers (just like most other people's)
b) just because 1 person has a problem with several does not automatically make that 1 person the problem
c) I'm not talking about blacklisting people because they suck or people getting nasty at me because I suck (I don't btw, but thanks for assuming that)
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d) even if I do suck, even if I AM the problem in every single circumstance, isn't that an argument FOR not letting me join parties with people I've blacklisted? It sounds like a win-win for everybody!

From a technical standpoint it's a nightmare just like Gardes said. Especially when you consider that the DF lobby server is NOT your home server and therefore would have to actually ping each player's actual server to get the blacklist data. Also there aren't ever 2m people playing at once. There's two master Data Centers operating on two pretty much completely opposite time zones and the DF only pulls from your specific sub-Data Center. Couple this with just how many options there are to be queuing for and you'll be lucky if the busiest instances have 100 in queue at any given second. PVP itself is somewhat niche and subdivides based on if you're solo or premade. The only thing they could do is for PF and allowing us to see who's in each party or blackout parties a BLed person is part of not just leader of.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

All I want is the ability to know who's in a party before I join or to not be able to join at all if a black listed person is there. Duty Finder issues with this system aside, it should be easily doable for Party Finder groups and I have no idea why it's not.!

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Because the devs are not our babysitters. This isn't elementary school. The devs aren't going to waste their time or use up server bandwith/resources because people can't play nice. The same problems that exist with doing this with DF actually exist with PF as well. Theoretically one poor soul could be waiting forever for his PF group to fill because between him, his buddy and the 1 random that joined his PF they are on several people's blacklists. You already said the pool for EX Primals etc. is somewhat small. This would make it worse. Especially since you don't know who has BLed you or if that random has been BLed by 200 people.

There is an individual on my server that I KNOW is on quite a few BLs and if they join a PF group with your system and the leader doesn't know this person's rep that PF group would take forever to fill.

Also, should the system also keep said person from joining a PF with someone who has them BLed? You're asking for a LOT of extra database querying as every time someone clicked a PF on the list the server would have to ping the BL of everyone in the party and then fire a dialog to the person saying "Sorry someone in the group has you BLed!" or some such. Just for people in your BL it would have to query all the active PF groups one by one to check for the roster instead of just being able to check the list of leaders' names in the actual PF database which is a LOT trickier.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

There is an individual on my server that I KNOW is on quite a few BLs and if they join a PF group with your system and the leader doesn't know this person's rep that PF group would take forever to fill.

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Won't his group still take forever to fill? I join, see someone I have blacklisted, then immediately leave.

Edit: Also, you say SE shouldn't be our babysitters, but isn't that what they're doing by NOT having this system? "You don't like each other but you have to play with each other anyway. Now play nice." If you look at both sides of this, you have either blocking people from joining groups w/ a blacklisted person which may result in slightly longer queue times or not blocking people, they join, then leave the group. It seems like the latter is more detrimental and who knows, it could be part of the reason for all the threads about people leaving dungeons after queuing. It may not be the dungeon the person doesn't like, it could be one of the other players.

Whoever I blocked , I dont wana see him/her aver again, period .

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Wait, you join a party and you see people you don't like already in the party, you want them...to leave? Obviously you do, since you're lamenting on missing out if you leave so you do want to stay in it but you don't want the blacklisted people around. So you think they're worth less than you based on your personal experience with them

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Erm, not sure where you got this from, maybe you have poor comprehension skills. I never once said they should leave. A previous poster said...

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

You join a party that is in pf, someone on your blist is there, you leave. It's that simple.

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So I was stating it's not fair that myself, or anyone in that situation, should have to miss out on the content because they've been paired with someone who they have severe personal issues with. If I tried to join and got a notification stopping me due to the presence of someone I had blacklisted, that would be fine. Actually joining then having to skulk away because of how uncomfortable the situation is feels horrid and humiliating.