Warrior Skill Speed>Parry

So was reading earlier that a skill speed build at a breaking point of 441 skill speed would actually allow for way more mitigation due to wrath stacks building faster for inner beast etc. Any thoughts on this? Also what would this build look like in a BIS situation. Easy to accomplish with the novus but the high allagan battleaxe makes it trickier. IMO its not worth trading the weapon and losing the weapon damage. I currently have been building my set without parry anyways for more dps as I do feel the returns arent that great and more dps is always an added bonus in helping meet enrage/pushing phases/killing adds etc So what pieces do i need to make this work? I was thinking the high allagan slaying ring would help. Might have to meld to meet requirements and definitely need the food.

I could see that. Inner Beast is one of our best abilities. If you could shave enough time (maybe 441 is it?) from your global cooldown, maybe that overcomes whatever you could have recieved from parry.

Really no one wants to discuss this? lol bump

I will take a shot at it! overall how well do you think putting skill speed on bravura novus would work out? (sorry if it's off topic) Skill speed has been something I have been looking at for a while now on warrior.

Basically, having 441 allows for 9 full attacks in the 20 second period of your 2 best dps buffs. Thus allowing for one more attack just before the cutoff and one more defiance stack respectively. So that is what is to gain at 441 skill speed. Not including the direct effect of faster skill times. With 450+ (I use the bravura and some ss+ slaying accs to keep me at about 9k hp while maximizing dps) your gcd can get to 2.39 secs. So yeah I say i would use skill speed up to 445~ then throw up your other stats behind it. I find that it all adds up to not only a mit buff in the end... but great a dps buff. With ideal conditions you can get anywhere from 140-150 dps even with defiance on. This is assuming you meet the min accuracy caps and at least i100~

You can achieve 9 hit Berserk with as little as 376 Skill Speed, if you delay your Berserk activation such that the animation ends right as your GCD comes up.

Hi, I wondered why the Bravura Animus has a lot of Skill Speed (28) compared to the Curtana+Shield (8). Aso more Parry (40 versus 32) and no Accuracy (versus 29 the Curtana.)

I suppose the Animus weapons have been thought for a good and balanced performance, so maybe the stats the Animus already have are especially good for each jobs? This since the gear is common for PLD and WAR.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

Hi, I wondered why the Bravura Animus has a lot of Skill Speed (28) compared to the Curtana+Shield (8). Aso more Parry (40 versus 32) and no Accuracy (versus 29 the Curtana.)

I suppose the Animus weapons have been thought for a good and balanced performance, so maybe the stats the Animus already have are especially good for each jobs? This since the gear is common for PLD and WAR.

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yeah, try telling that to your scholar friends who have spell speed on their animus.

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more mitigation due to wrath stacks building faster for inner beast etc.

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Not going to comment on damage potential. You all can figure that out (and it sounds interesting).

As for the mitigation buff from faster Wrath build:
- Let's assume you get Skill Speed that puts you at 2.39 sec GCD.
- If we assume you use ONLY the abilities required to build Wrath & Inner Beast, then Inner Beast occurs every 8.5 GCDs on average.
- Inner Beast lasts for 6 seconds and reduces damage by 20%.

From this we calculate what % damage reduction from Inner Beast in 2 different paths: (A) 2.5 sec GCD vs. (B) 2.39 sec GCD.
(A) 2.5 sec * 8.5 = 21.25 sec. Inner Beast is active for 6 of that, so 6/21.25= 28% Inner Beast uptime. 20% reduction during that time: 0.28*0.2=5.6% damage reduction by IB.
(B) 2.39 sec * 8.5 = 20.315 sec. Inner Beast is active for 6 of that, so 6/20.315= 29.5% Inner Beast uptime. 20% reduction during that time: 0.29.5*0.2=5.9% damage reduction by IB.

At best, +0.3% damage reduction from Inner Beast with GCD 2.5 to 2.39 secs.

Keep in mind that you are going to spend some time occasionally on skills that don't build Wrath (Tomahawk, etc) and some time dealing with fight mechanics. That amount of time will be same no matter your skill speed, so as a % the increase in IB uptime can only go down -- never up. So the 0.3% will be smaller in reality.

You could think about Skill Speed increasing use of Storm's Path as well. But if you really want to bad enough, you can have 100% uptime on SP even with 0 Skill Speed. So zero benefit from Skill Speed in that situation. And even if you do figure some benefit, the number will be smaller than that from Inner Beast.

So how much Parry would you give up to get this much Skill Speed? And how much mitigation (as a % of total damage) is that Parry worth? It will be a small % I'm sure, but more or less than 0.3%? And if it really is that small of a %, who cares?

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Originally Posted by Altonfenri

With ideal conditions you can get anywhere from 140-150 dps even with defiance on. This is assuming you meet the min accuracy caps and at least i100~

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I agree with what your saying mostly just wanted to point something out.

You said that they could achieve 140-150 with defiance on...that's an extremely low number. They should be doing that any ways even without the "added dps from ss". With defiance on a i100 warrior should be pulling at least 180 dps. Without defiance the number should be much higher.

I think skill speed has it's place for both Tank roles. However, it takes a lot of skill speed for it to make an impact and the gear just doesn't allow for it right now. Also, it's sad that it only affects GCD skills.

"The belt is the swing piece for bravura or HA (HA belt is used with Bravura, and Noct Belt is used with HA/Conqueror). http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MYC1 is the set with the HA belt swapped out. But that is the highest theoretical dps set. You can swap out the gloves with the HA gloves if the extra accuracy bothers you, but the skillspeed is still the highest rated stat, regardless of being over acc. Skillspeed is less effective outside of defiance since you run out of tp faster w/o IB to regenerate it, but it still is the highest theoretical dps gain until the 441 breakpoint (Which isn't mandatory by any means).
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MYC2 + Sauteed Coeurl is the right set for the 441 skillspeed breakpoint for dps OTing. But whether or not the breakpoint dps gain is higher than the 18 strength lost from not having the slaying earrings has yet to be tested, as I haven't gotten them all to drop yet.

For MTing http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MYC5 is going to remain the BiS list, with http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MYC7 being the other option to make the skillspeed breakpoint which is more of a big deal for in-defiance WAR tanks while using sauteed Coeurl. The overabundance of Acc is unavoidable with using skillspeed, in most cases. However, it is still the highest weighted stat by a lot."

This is the information I was given from another friend warrior. Anyone wish to take a look and let me know why this is correct or incorrect.

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Originally Posted by opengrip

441 Skill Speed breakpoint

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What significance does 441 Skill Speed hold?

The only breakpoints I know of, for WAR, are 376, the minimum for 9-hit Berserk, EDIT: and 478, which allows you to maintain Storm's Eye debuff with 6 GCDs between (the 6th would be an Inner Beast or a Fracture). I'm pretty confident that the returns aren't worth the amount of DET and/or CHR you would be sacrificing. Also, that amount of Skill Speed wouldn't afford you 100% Storm's Eye uptime, but merely enough to not lose potency on Storm's Eye hit when you go to reapply it. This is important because it may or may not end up weakening an auto-attack and/or the other tank's DPS.

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Originally Posted by opengrip

misleade

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your fellow player gave a post that discounts what your friends told you. here is some more math. most fights in coil hit their enrage timer ~11(avg) min.
(11 min the time of t8) 660s/2.39gcd = 276.1 actions at that ss cap
(11 min the time of t8) 660s/2.5gcd = 264 actions at 0 SS
12 at the ss cap. which is 8 total chain builders, so in 11min you get 12 extra actions in. It takes ~8 actions to build up a full set of stacks. so you only get 1 more inner beast in that whole 11min. Plug things you want into a calculator with no limits and of course its going to tell you SS out weighs everything.

You are loosing way more damage mitigation lowering your parry then, you are even remotely gaining in IB. essentially you can 20 extra seconds of damage mitigation in the last 10 seconds of an 11 min fight. you wont see any benefit until after 10min. and this is assuming 100% uptime so any fight where you have down time longer then 2.4s you will loose your advantage. So garuda, titan, ifrit, levi, moogle, t6(depends on who takes slug), t7 voice/shout, t8 mechanics... oh so no current endgame fight in the game. maybe t8
You won't even see a DPS increase until after 2min 11.5s (660/12= 55x2.39s =131.5 sec)

simple math.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

simple math.

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It's not that simple.

In order to take an accurate measurement of Skill Speed's effects, you would have to track every single start and stop period (and these often fluctuate in their length and, sometimes, frequency). Depending on the length and frequency of attack phases and downtimes, Skill Speed's effects magnifies or diminishes.

As an extreme example, let's say you were affored 2.4(9) s to attack a target, with a 2.5 s downtime between each phase. If you had base Skill Speed, you would only be afforded a single attack, whereas any amount of Skill Speed would afford you two. NOTE: I know you need more time than that to execute an attack, but, for the purposes of this example, let's just say any non-zero amount of time is enough. Let's say, then, that this pattern repeated 50 times over. That's 124.(9)5 s of combat, which might suggest that the player with Skill Speed only gained 1 extra attack. But, in reality, the player with Skill Speed gained 50 extra attacks.

Now, that's an extreme example, but I think it illustrates how using the total duration of combat to determine the effects of Skill Speed is limited.

There are also other considerations with Skill Speed, such as fitting an extra attack into a cooldown (9-hit Berserk is a topic-relevant example), or applying an important buff or debuff sooner, rather than later. You would also have to consider which extra attacks occur (an extra Heavy Swing isn't as good as an extra Butcher's Block), as well as when they occur.

I could go on, but I'll end this post by saying that I don't really think Skill Speed is that great past certain points. However, its effects are a lot more complicated and nuanced than simply dividing the duration of combat by your GCD.

Skill speed is pretty much worthless. Most fights will be over too fast for you to even get stacks up. And TP is just a time limit so skill speed in a longer fight will just ensure you run out and are waiting on the ticks of TP to even do anything since WAR can't get Invigorate.

Be careful with too much SkillSpeed....you'll burn so much TP.

I stack Skill Speed because yolo
makes hardly any difference in the end whichever way you go.

I've always ranked Skill Speed the same as Parry on War, for this reason and that since it also increases DPS. It might be hardly noticeable but if you're gonna proirotize a 2ndary stat, might as well be Skill Speed.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

I think skill speed has it's place for both Tank roles. However, it takes a lot of skill speed for it to make an impact and the gear just doesn't allow for it right now. Also, it's sad that it only affects GCD skills.

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As been said numerous times before, this can be said of all 2ndary stats. Stack all the parry you want, its not gonna save you, like ever.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

I've always ranked Skill Speed the same as Parry on War, for this reason and that since it also increases DPS. It might be hardly noticeable but if you're gonna proirotize a 2ndary stat, might as well be Skill Speed.

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Skill Speed's "benefits" to mitigation are virtually nonexistent, especially since they're only present if you're using Inner Beast on CD, which is rarely the best thing to do. Proof.

Skill Speed provides less damage than Crit or DET and *way* less mitigation benefits (basically one-tenth as much), so you're actually better off splitting between Parry and Crit/DET than you are taking any Speed whatsoever: you'll get more mitigation *and* more damage out of a 2 Parry and 8 crit than you will out of 10 speed.

Picture this
T5 DS is now shortened to come every 20 seconds

with the GCD barring cooldowns it takes you 20 seconds to get max wrath if all you use is your combos, and then to put up IB it's another 2.5 seconds so 22.5 seconds to get IB up
You could stack skillspeed to say, 2.2 gcd (just for example's sake thesse are random ass numbers) so that it only takes you 19.8 seconds to get IB up, in time for the death sentence counting the cast time.

If there was ANY fight in the game like this, where you weren't sitting on 5 stacks of wrath and an extra 10 globals for the MB, DS, Ravensbeak, whatever to happen, skillspeed might be *slightly* more useful

But, there isn't a single fight like that. In a lot of fights even, you're using IB ASAP because you have all the time in the world to build up 5 stacks again anyway. And there's no real sustained high damage that extra IB uptime would save you, either. To begin with stacking skillspeed as crazy as you would have to, to get IB up THREE SECONDS faster, is just stupid. SS sucks ass. If you wanna go non-parry war, which I agree with, go DET or crit for the extra chance of bigger self-heals from path/IB.

A lot of the Soldiery stuff drops Parry for stuff like Crit and SS. I'm not sure if we're being trolled by Squenix, but VIT outweighs everything by a wide margin so given the choice of more VIT and less of some secondary stat, I always choose more VIT.

The other issue with SS is that WAR doesn't have Invigorate and we burn TP down like crazy, in any protracted length fight we are guaranteed to run out of TP unless the boss conveniently leaves the arena for a bit and we can regenerate some. Fortunately, outside of mainly T8, in general this is the case at endgame.

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Originally Posted by Illya

A lot of the Soldiery stuff drops Parry for stuff like Crit and SS. I'm not sure if we're being trolled by Squenix, but VIT outweighs everything by a wide margin so given the choice of more VIT and less of some secondary stat, I always choose more VIT.

The other issue with SS is that WAR doesn't have Invigorate and we burn TP down like crazy, in any protracted length fight we are guaranteed to run out of TP unless the boss conveniently leaves the arena for a bit and we can regenerate some. Fortunately, outside of mainly T8, in general this is the case at endgame.

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That's not completely true, if you don't use overpower/tomahawk and use wrath skills, infuriate and berserks as soon as they're up you shouldn't have problems

I think Skill Speed is just meant to be a margin of error for the player in their skill usage. If you are super tight on your timing, and anticipate things very quickly you don't really need Skill Speed.
However if you are a bit slower on your timing and reaction time, then some skill speed could help you perform slightly better.

For instance Death Sentence is coming up and you need just a tad more time to get that 5th wrath stack for IB, or a tad more time to get the 10% debuff on boss and then IB. That's where Skill Speed makes it "easier" to mitigate incoming damage.

Basically it's a handicap.

I read up on some table claiming the benefits of Skill/Spell speed. It used Resurrect as the ability for effects. It claimed that 141 skill speed points reduced the cast to 7.5s from 8.0s and GCD from 2.5s to 2.4s.

Overall this 5~6% increase for 141 points is garbage. Take an instant cast ability with 2.5s GCD. Grats you wasted 141 points of speed for .1s GCD reduction. You can now use 1 more ability per minute. Or would you like to have a higher percentage to make your avoidance check and reduce damage?

Speed reduction won't be a viable skill until you can cut .5s off the GCD (and reduce cast timers by 20% minimum) because it governs pace. Currently speed will only be good for abilities that take longer than GCD to cast.

I wouldnt gem for skill speed at all, I would prefer to keep the basic tanking stats, Par, dodge, and if anything else after, crit. Crits help damage, maybe not enough to make my dps go sky high, but its better than anything if im basically Acc capped. We arent a dps class, we are tanking, and it should be that way. If you worry too much about the dps your doing, maybe you should play an actual dps class instead of a tanking class. Just my two cents.