ToS vs Recommended Peripherals

What does everyone think about using the recommended peripherals and their macro abilities, which are advertised on SE's site here: http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/alliance/na/pe/ - vs- The (vague) ToS rule "2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay." Location: http://support.eu.square-enix.com/ru...1&tag=users_en

Could it be, that you don't fully understand what the ToS means, and what those Peripherals do?

Oh, and, THIS is by any means not vague. Vague would be "Don't use anything we don't actually allow". THIS part of the ToS, if anything negatively can be said, is redundant at worst.

Good rule of thumb: one press, one action.

You must be new to the game implemented macros?

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

You must be new to the game implemented macros?

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These keyboards offer more advanced "macros" than what you see in game, they come with fully automated software running them.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

You must be new to the game implemented macros?

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Like Nova said, They offer very complex control over keystrokes. You can do an entire 30 step craft macro off of one button or use them in initiate multiple in game macros to use /command lines. Some people may feel that it's like boting, however you cannot program them to have any kind of and/or switch and they cannot analyze what is going on. You still have to be at the helm and oversee them. They can take over where the in game macro system lacks depth.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Good rule of thumb: one press, one action.

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That would rule out even using in game macros.

As for the ToS: "You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay." So if a peripheral (which includes it's software) is marketed by SE for FFXIV, would it then be safe to say that it is authorized?
Discuss. . .

Yeah, controller/keyboard macros are alot stronger than anything you can craft in the 15 lines available in-game. The in-game macros rely on specific commands that have finite abilities. A keyboard macro could easily be set up to access menus and make menu selections, well and far beyond the in-game macro system, to allow someone to say quick synth without actually using Quick Synthesis. It's this aspect of such peripherals that's against the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Spot

As for the ToS: "You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay." So if a peripheral (which includes it's software) is marketed by SE for FFXIV, would it then be safe to say that it is authorized?
Discuss. . .

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Honestly Spot, this is a good catch. SE has been intentionally vague about keyboard macros since the very beginning and it's a bit frustrating. Especially now that they are recommending peripherals that have the distinct ability to do so.

It's about time they became clear on their stance of macro use.

If you were to ask me, it's all about whether or not you are present for the automation. If suspected and a GM pokes you, if you do not reply after a few attempts within a reasonable time frame, let's say, 5 attempts in 15-30 minutes, it could be assumed unauthorized.

Hopefully when they poke you, it isn't something simply in your chatlog. Something flashy on your screen dead-center would be most appropriate.

Considering macros only make you perform worse in combat, I say who really cares? You can get guaranteed HQ on 2 star recipes with two macros so being able to do it in 1 button press isn't an issue either. Those products alone don't allow you to be a farm bot or anything of the like so it's not hurting anyone or giving you an unfair advantage.

All I see are keyboards and mice. I don't see any hardware that automatically generates and uses its own macros.

It's a violation of the ToS to "create or use". It's not a violation if it sits there on your hardware unused, even if the option is available.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Good rule of thumb: one press, one action.

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Even better rule: One press can trigger multiple actions; just don't have the macro automate the entire game.

What I really wish is that they'd allow us to use the UI for the Naga so that our toolbars are set up in four rows of three.

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Originally Posted by Spot

automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay.

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Keyboards are not automation software, nor are they hardware designed to modify the game and gameplay

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Considering macros only make you perform worse in combat, I say who really cares? You can get guaranteed HQ on 2 star recipes with two macros so being able to do it in 1 button press isn't an issue either. Those products alone don't allow you to be a farm bot or anything of the like so it's not hurting anyone or giving you an unfair advantage.

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I do understand where the argument against using macros and the lag/queuing comes into play, however that doesn't apply to most of the software macros on keyboards. For example; you could put a few actions on a random hotbar that does not even need to be shown on the screen, give them a keybind in game and then set your keyboard macro to activate one/all/in order with a single button without having to hit the actual keybind combo or deal with the in game macro issues. Logitech's macros will let you set key push and release with user set timing down ten thousandths of a second. On the crafting side of the house, you can set whatever rotations you want off of one key, and there are some very significant things you can do to make life easier as a crafter that I'm not going to dive into. Is giving an unfair advantage? No, think of it like how fishing is with a PlayStation controller with vibrate on.

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Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

All I see are keyboards and mice. I don't see any hardware that automatically generates and uses its own macros.
It's a violation of the ToS to "create or use". It's not a violation if it sits there on your hardware unused, even if the option is available.

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Almost all of the products that SE recommends on their site include hardware and software for making macros. Even a simple mouse that has extra buttons that do. . say 1-6 or something, are still macros. Some of the products require the software to update the bios or drivers. The G600 mouse even has onboard RAM that saves your macro settings which can me used when the mouse is moved to another computer without needing any software put on the computer it was transferred too. As for "create", the end user is not creating any software. They are using what is provided with and supplied by manufacturer. The real question is "use". Why would SE even use the word "unauthorized" when talking about software in the ToS if there were no such thing as authorized software? If there was an absolute restriction against it, then I would imagine that SE would word it that way. It leads back to the question about what the status of the software for products that SE has recommended for FFXIV is. You have a valid point that while having it is not a violation but using it could be. Maybe SE sees it that way, maybe they don't, but they have not clarified it. Valid points can be made for either side. This is why I initially said the ToS was vague.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Yeah, controller/keyboard macros are alot stronger than anything you can craft in the 15 lines available in-game. The in-game macros rely on specific commands that have finite abilities. A keyboard macro could easily be set up to access menus and make menu selections, well and far beyond the in-game macro system, to allow someone to say quick synth without actually using Quick Synthesis. It's this aspect of such peripherals that's against the ToS.

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They can do that, yes, I wouldn't say that you can easily access menus and menu selections, but yes that can be done. However, there is no automated/sensory. A macro doesn't know what's going on, so it can't keep you from hitting the wrong thing if you set it that way and can't detect a "good" or anything like that. You can already do what is basicly a quick synth with the in game macro system as is. There is just as much weight you could put behind aspects of gameplay on a controller vs a keyboard.

what Id like to know is why the hell is S-E Recommending Alienware?! LULZ Ever since they merged with Dell the whole product line has gone to crap.

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Originally Posted by Spot

They can do that, yes, I wouldn't say that you can easily access menus and menu selections, but yes that can be done. However, there is no automated/sensory. A macro doesn't know what's going on, so it can't keep you from hitting the wrong thing if you set it that way and can't detect a "good" or anything like that. You can already do what is basicly a quick synth with the in game macro system as is. There is just as much weight you could put behind aspects of gameplay on a controller vs a keyboard.

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I understand that, but there are recipes that are too 'complex' to macro with just one macro in-game due to line limit. Further, macros can't open menus or make selections in said menus. Sure, if someone were to do something like this they'd lose out on the changing states of synthing, but that's beside the point for those who would go this far for automated crafting. They don't care, so long as the synths are done while they are out to see a movie/eat at a restaurant/sleeping then what's to miss.

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Originally Posted by Kerowyn

what Id like to know is why the hell is S-E Recommending Alienware?! LULZ Ever since they merged with Dell the whole product line has gone to crap.

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As the legend goes, while studying other games one of the devs tried Tera. When he saw the whole chat filled with "Alienware is best PC," he told the team he discovered some useful information.

If you read the page, it says 'from our partners' thats not recommended, thats sponsored, it has nothing to do with the TOS at all.
The devs well know there will be plenty of people acquiring or about to acquire mmo based peripherals, why would they restrict it, and yes, the hardware does give a massive advantage over users who dont have such devices especially mmo mouses, they even give users a larger advantage over controllers even more. but such devices are considered pretty standard by now and id imagine even the devs like yoshi having a mmo based mouse.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

If you read the page, it says 'from our partners' thats not recommended, thats sponsored, it has nothing to do with the TOS at all.
The devs well know there will be plenty of people acquiring or about to acquire mmo based peripherals, why would they restrict it, and yes, the hardware does give a massive advantage over users who dont have such devices especially mmo mouses, they even give users a larger advantage over controllers even more. but such devices are considered pretty standard by now and id imagine even the devs like yoshi having a mmo based mouse.

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The devs do use these high tech peripherals, as you can see here in this post:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000732.html

Just look at the Battle Director, Mitsutoshi Gondai's set up.

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...502_7-597.html

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...502_8-598.html

@ OP: Why would they persecute you for using devices they themselves use? You're taking this way out of proportion. I think anyone who has played an MMO for some time knows there is a clear difference between an advanced keyboard that can fit a ton of macro lines and a piece of software, mod or hack that circumvents game mechanics or manipulates packets.

Hey I've got a G13 Logitech Gameboard same as Gondai. I used to have a Belkin n52 for a few years but I wore that sucker out lol