SMN aggo question.

So, lately i've been putting Miasma II into my rotation: BIO II->Bio->Miasma->fester/Bane->Shadow flare->Miasma II. But the problem is that i've been taking away aggo from the Tank. I was under the impression that its hard to take aggo away from the tank with SMN. Is it them or me?

Quelling Strikes?

Well, I can't speak to SMN point of view, but as a tank I can tell you that there should rarely if ever be agro problems.

It's all about context:
Is the tank far less geared than you?
Is the tank busy trying to agro 2 or more enemies at once?
Is the tank dealing with mechanics that force them to do less than max agro? (ex. moving around, at range instead of melee, cursed voice in t7, etc)

If nothing special is going on and you're still getting agro, then it's probably the tank that's bad.

For instance, as a Warrior I'll lead with Tomahawk, Unchained/Berserk, the high agro combo attacks with Brutal Swing thrown in. That locks agro on tank very easily. If however, Unchained/Berserk were on cooldown and Warrior tried to lead with Storm's Eye combo (higher dmg, less agro), then agro loss would be much more likely.


As PLD I would lead with Fight or Flight, Shield Lob, and RoH combo with Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within woven in. Again, very high agro right at the start. Harder to mess up agro on a PLD than WAR.

Bottom line for the SMN: watch context. If tank is doing other stuff, go easy. But in normal circumstances you should be able to throw absolutely everything at enemies right from the start. If it continues being a problem, your tank needs to improve or be replaced.

Depends. When I'm tanking with a new group it usually takes a pull or two to figure out where the dps stands and what they prefer doing (single target or aoe). Tanks should be paying attention to that and adjusting their rotation accordingly. Playing with a smn and blm in the group is generally going to require a different approach compared to a drg and mnk team. A lot of tanks just seem unaware of how smn works and how much aoe threat they can pull, I've been accused a few times of "attacking the wrong" mob as smn, when all I was doing was laying down bane/miasma II.

Try and explain things, hope they listen and if not, quelling strikes can help make the difference.

It's you. Summoner damage/enmity is pretty crazy and with practice you can have your DoTs out very fast. Also once they are out ticking there's nothing you can do to stop them.
Quelling Strikes helps but sometimes it's not enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

It's you. Summoner damage/enmity is pretty crazy and with practice you can have your DoTs out very fast. Also once they are out ticking there's nothing you can do to stop them.
Quelling Strikes helps but sometimes it's not enough.

---

SMN enmity is split between the SMN and the pet furthermore DoTs generate less hate due to their nature.

of every single DPS, SMN is the least likely to pull hate.

If a tank loses hate to a SMN, its a tank issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

furthermore DoTs generate less hate due to their nature.

---

Err. . .no, as far as I'm aware 1 damage by a dot is the same as 1 damage by a normal ability. Unless you mean to say they're a slower hate build?

Are you talking 'bout single target or aoe stuations? Or both? If on single target it definetly is on tank's side, unless he hasn't done anything else but pulled them and is currently positioning them, then it's your fault. But as for aoe situations, most tanks from DF/DR don't know how much aoe dmg smn's do I have had some tanks that never flashed more than once. Which means 3 ticks of all DoTs and I got aggro off 3/4 monsters.

Generaly: If tank isn't positioning monsters on trash pulls, problem is on tank's end. If problem is during positioning, then you are just starting to DPS too soon.

Definitely agree with Ani. Single target you shouldn't pull hate unless you are trying to.
A good AOE Summoner builds hate faster than BLM up until Flare/Double Flare which some tanks may not be used to.

That's why I say it's the Summoners fault and not the tanks. I don't think many tanks get to play with a good AOE Summoner.

I.E.
3 GCD = 110 Potency on 4 Mobs (3 second Ticks)
4 GCD = 135 Potency on 4 Mobs (3 second Ticks)
5 GCD = 145 Potency on 4 Mobs (3 second Ticks)
Convert to GCD = 121 Potency
Blizz II Spam = 171 Potency per GCD

So with ~510 INT (i90 Weapon) that's around 480 Damage per mob per GCD without Crits etc.

Look at his character, he doesnt even have Quelling Strikes.

Its hard to take aggro from a tank if u are a smn, also, watch the eminity list, i can say its a tank issue cause look, this is my ritation

Shadow flare, Miasma, bio ii, bio, fester, contagion, ruin, fester, ruin ii while runing, then miasma ii, potent poison potion, shadow flare, fester

More ir less this is my rotation amd i dont have queling and i dont pull aggro from tank, its a tank issue

I can honestly say that as a SMN we can/do pull a lot AOE hate and single target hate from tanks. Most tanks are unaware of just how much hate a SMN can pull but nevertheless, I always try to let the tank get at least halfway through their rotation before I start to get in on the action. There have been times where I have simply applied the main 3 dots/fester and then sat and watch as my dots do build up hate. The dots do build hate over the course of the fight plus that is coupled in with the the hate that the egi can pull from the tank. I've notice that if the egi pulls hate the enemies will go to both the SMN and the egi. Try letting the tank get halfway through their rotation and then DPS. If that fails then invest in getting quelling strikes. I never used quelling strikes and don't have quelling strikes unlocked but other than that, if your still pulling hate then it is the tank problem even if they get halfway through their rotation and you waited to DPS. Could be that you have a higher ilvl than the tank or you guys are equal in ilvl but the person is just not good at tanking. Could be a number of reasons. but try doing that and you should be okay.

as a summoner whos almost full i110, if your paired with a decent tank who is within 20 ilvls of you, you should never have an issue with hate, the only exception being short bursts like a bane/fester combo to an add as soon as it spawns, thats the only time i really need to use quelling strikes, and with a warrior tank even then i dont really need it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

So, lately i've been putting Miasma II into my rotation: BIO II->Bio->Miasma->fester/Bane->Shadow flare->Miasma II. But the problem is that i've been taking away aggo from the Tank. I was under the impression that its hard to take aggo away from the tank with SMN. Is it them or me?

---

It is not your fault, certainly not because you added Miasma II into your rotation. Miasma II contributes low DPS that if you use it alone without contagion, it is not worth the mana cost. There are even people considered it not worth even with the use of contagion.

Try asking the tank to use more Flash or AOE skill if you are fighting against multiple target.

Quelling strikes works too but if your tank cannot even hold a SMN's aggro, he certainly can't hold a BLM's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcusow86

-snip.

---

Whether Miasma II is worth it is a discussion I'm not getting into,

But as a SMN you shouldn't be having any hate issues I think. It sounds like the tank was unaware of your AoE potential.
The only thing I can think of is starting with Shadow Flare or not. I usually save that for a little later in the rotation and rarely have any aggro problems.

As for not having Quelling Strikes... I'll admit I got it very very late. I never really needed it. Sounds like it might be a good investment in your case though.

I've been getting hate a lot when playing as SMN. I'm a fairly new SMN, at Lv.36. I was running Sunken Temple a few times yesterday and I got hate a lot! Using Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Bane would get me hate from other mobs after a few seconds. Maybe the tank wasn't using Flash or something, I don't know. Like I say, i'm new to summoner. But I had to start using Quelling Strikes a lot, whenever it was available.

i was farming T1 for caster gear using SMN. (Im leveling BLM). I main SCH so my points are in MND not INT... Even with a gimped SMN I managed to pull hate from the tank .Caduceus came and cleaved me out of nowhere and then went back to the tank.
That was a wtf moment for me. Here i am mid cast reapplying my DoTs when boom im on the floor.

Honestly, at i97 I very rarely take hate on anything but AoE and even that's rare. I'm going to have to agree, it's on the tank.

What comes to OP's rotation he/she listed. Use miasma II and Potent Posoning potion (PPP) before using contagion, because Contagion boosts those two also (sadly bane doesn't spread them).

If you dont even have Quelling strikes and dont have it in your rotation (cos you cant even use it), then how can it be anyone elses fault other than yours.

There is a little thing called emnity MANAGEMENT.

You make it sound like it is the tanks problem. But just from your posts, I can already conclude that you dont know what 1) emnity management is, 2) you dont know what the emnity bar is, 3) you don't know how to use Quelling strikes, 4) and it sounds to me like you are one of those dps's that just nuke mobs right from the getgo without giving the tank some time to establish some hate properly and then proceeds to blame the tank for the fault. I mean do you even know why the tank starts the fight. Why it is the tank that is supposed to pull the boss first and not the other way around?

What is the purpose to have a tank pull titan, ifrit or garuda first? Tell me. Its the simplest mechanic in the game.

It really boils down to getting back to basics dude. I dont think you understand even the basics which is why you are having so much trouble. Any dps can pull hate from a tank especially when the damage is good which is always the case with high ilvl weapons and gear.

The TRICK is to NOT pull hate and still deal the max dps you can muster.