This is mainly in regards to dungeon runs as Paladin. Gather all the mobs, Hallowed Ground, Flash Flash Flash Flash Flash Flash Riot Blade Flash Riot Blade Flash Riot Blade Flash. It's not fun.
With some battle adjustments coming in the near future, why not do something like make Shield Swipe a conal attack? It'd be way more fun for the tank, they would do a bit of damage and it wouldn't even be as strong as Overpower since it requires a Block first. Maybe even just making Circle of Scorn give the same hate as Spirits Within so that the tank can reserve some of their Flashes for the actual Blind effect instead of being forced to use it non-stop ASAP or else lose hate.
Spamming Flash is boring
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06-27-2014, 08:25 AMLuhySpamming Flash is boring
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06-27-2014, 08:27 AMLionKing
If you want more fun, go War :)
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06-27-2014, 08:33 AMAshkendor
And that's precisely why I don't spam Brayflox HM speedruns.
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06-27-2014, 08:46 AMRemn
that only happen when you do speed run. same thing with WAR, spam overpower (sometime flash) and pop some CD.
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06-27-2014, 08:59 AMEye_Gore
Wow I don't think I've used flash that much in an entire dungeon. I'll combo it with savage and rage, maybe a provoke if need be.
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06-27-2014, 09:41 AMLionKingOP spam will lead you to TO starve before all the mobs even dead. Put in Steel cylclone and manage your Wrath stacks as well as occasionally flash, now that is fun..Quote:
Originally Posted by Remn
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06-27-2014, 11:42 AMGiantbaneIt's also a little more interesting because you have to keep all the enemies in front of you since overpower operates in a cone. You can't just stand in the middle and flash everyone. Mildly challenging when you're moving around trying to dodge AoE and all the enemies start bumping eachother out of the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by LionKing
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06-27-2014, 11:47 AMBlack91CRX
Paladin is the lazy way of tanking lol
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06-27-2014, 11:55 AMJarvix
You can always not use Flash. Won't take long at all before things will get very interesting. :)
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06-27-2014, 04:27 PMFue
Thankfully its only relevant in braybray.
Reason why i dont duty roulette with pld. -
06-27-2014, 05:26 PMabzoluutI think he's talking about speedruns because then you weel need this method in order to tank 7 mobs +.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye_Gore
Key is the keep the same amount of aggro on all mobs since dps does mot focus on one mob in particular. Your FB, SB, ROH combo would be useless.
You'll only use Riot Blade to get mp back to spam flash some more. -
06-27-2014, 05:39 PMAlphras
Well, as WAR you are also trying to optimize your DPS on speedruns. Something you can't really do as PLD.
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06-27-2014, 10:11 PMNayto
Paladin is more fun in any other dungeons that's not brayflox.
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06-27-2014, 11:44 PMThirdChild_ZKI
Another reason I gravitated away from tanking. I've had people tell me before that I should use Flash at LEAST 3 to 5 times on a pull. . . absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps if I were mass pulling (which I don't), but even then, with all the other enmity tools at my disposal, why rely on one that does no damage and only provides diminishing returns on the debuff it grants? So long as you as the tank are not outgeared by your party, and your healer/DPS aren't going all out as soon as you pull, keeping aggro ought not be too difficult. And personally speaking, I like feeling like I'm both actually fighting and doing damage when I pull.
Maybe I should finish leveling Warrior. . . -
06-28-2014, 10:02 AMJarvixThink we need to start a Brayflox Thread. It is about the 1st Dungeon where you start to seperate the truly bad players from the rest. Or perhaps the 1st Dungeon that requires a small amount of knowledge and/or skill. Most of my crazy stories come out of Brayflox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayto
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06-28-2014, 10:34 AMLionKingThat is partially true if you are a Warrior as you have Overpower + Steel Cyclone which both deal damages on top of Flash, but not as Paladin. If you don't have a good aggro control from the start and if you have a BLM equally geared in your party, even with Quelling Strike, as soon as he does Flare, the mobs will straight away want to eat him alive and it won't take long till shits get real...Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
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06-28-2014, 11:44 AMThirdChild_ZKI
Oh that's an easy one, speaking only from a PLD perspective. Random PUG members aside, hopefully your DPS understands how to meter their DPS so as not to pull aggro right away (and yeah, even I make that slip as a DPS at times), and even if so, Provoke + Shield Lob/Rage of Halone usually are enough to pull them back. That is, if your DPS doesn't want to play Aggro Tug-of-War. And nothing says "Notice me, Senpai!" like a shield to the face :P
Mind you, I'll never try to say I'm the world's greatest tank, but I certainly prefer to be more than a strobing training dummy for enemies. -
06-28-2014, 04:51 PMLionKing
When a Bray SR is commencing, once you lose aggro, you will not lose on one or two but will normally a group of mobs, so Provoke kinda not really save you there and when that happens, DPS will die straight away before you can get the aggro back from all of them. And after that well, Healer is next to their menu list, so you know the rest ;)
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06-28-2014, 08:55 PMNaytoGo do a flashless run on brayflox then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvix
... oh wait no you can't. Your constantly pulling 10+ mobs. At specific checkpoints because people want their 50myth in 10 minutes... over and over again. Sorry but being a farming machine =/= skill. -
06-29-2014, 12:48 AMZephyrAM
I can't really take this thread seriously. It's complaining that they don't like tanking that way, while simultaneously implying a choice to continue only tanking that way.
Stop doing speedruns. -
06-29-2014, 01:10 AMThirdChild_ZKILol, talk dirty to me. I've been suggesting that all over, and I'm almost at the point where I can expect an angry mob with torches and pitchforks outside my door soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrAM
I feel like a lot of the current "standards" for tanking were born out of old, bad speed-running tactics. Call me a maverick, but I've been experimenting a lot with different ways to tank, and while it ended up being a give and take, I found it a little more interesting, but not much different in terms of basic enmity management:
- In an attempt to try and do more damage as a PLD, I changed my attributes to a 20 STR/10 VIT split, with accessories that mostly focused on STR, Crit, and Det. Having only changed my accessories, but still wearing my regular tank gear (before I was i82, as my "DPLD" I dropped to i79), my overall defense didn't actually change, however I WAS taking hits like a DPS would. Odd. I arguably did damage on par with/slightly above a Bard.
- Like this, I ran Pharos Sirius to completion - No Shield Oath. Same thing in Lost City (I faced a little more difficulty there being undergeared in comparison to everyone else, but still, no noticeable difference in enmity management)
- In Pharos, I tried several different, "crazy" methods: Pulled and held aggro without ever using Flash, If I DID use Flash, never more than twice and usually not even back to back. Shield Bash to temporarily delay a mob I'd pulled but was not actively fighting. . . Here and there, my healer would naturally pull aggro off me, but getting it back didn't take much effort.
Overall, you could consider me an offensively stronger tank (we burned through a lot of things pretty fast) or a defensively stronger DPS. And of course, this was a controlled experiment as I ran these via Roulette with FC members. I don't recommend anyone attempt to replicate this, of course, but I simply wanted to challenge the "all or nothing" mindset toward Shield Oath, Flash, and many other "It has to be this way" aspects of tanking. And not only did I win, but I had a lot more fun this way.
P.S. I need a cooler name for this spec than "DPLD". Got any ideas?