[ Devs ] Tank should be tank no DPS with shield, Provoke issue.

Because I think this title deserves devs tag in name, I am posting this.

Please think of Gladiator class as of tank, now its just mid dps with shield. Provoke doesnt work at all. I think it shouldnt be this way. When Glad uses provoke in PT, his enmity is green, nonsense if he was aimed at tank class. I dunno but I thik it worked fine before update, just now it is awfully broken. It was tank after all. Actually I had fun, etc. Before grinding. Now I dont have.

Provoke should be adjusted or improved, its not working as tank would think of it at all. You dont have to agree.

You seem to mix up things...Provoke wasn't working before(at least the way many people believed, cause it was NO FFXI PROVOKE), and NOW it is like FFXI Provoke and people thnk its broken?

Using it before was pointless, cause it didn't do anything but setting you at nr1 in the hatelist(which is pretty much obsolete since you're supposed to be nr1 from the beginning anyway)

Now it actually works like FFXIs Provoke where it generates enmity instead of putting you at nr1 in the hatelist and you think its broken?

I usually don't play that card...but L2P!

Provoke generates emnity, Taunt is snap aggro.

Gladiators are main tanks, Pugilists are spot/off tanks so this makes a lot of sense. You can sub Taunt onto your Gladiator if you have problems losing aggro. You also have other abilities both with gladiator, and that you can sub to generate aggro.

what about the cooldowns on them, dont you think their a little high and dont generate enough enmity?

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

what about the cooldowns on them, dont you think their a little high and dont generate enough enmity?

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I'm not of the opinion that taunting/provoking should be a crutch that tanks rely on as their primary tanking skill, it should be just another tool in their arsenal. Otherwise I think tanking would be pretty boring (I don't tank much in XIV these days, but that is just my opinion).

Tanking is boring if all you gotta do to keep enmity is spam taunt/provoke.

Learn to use all the aggro tools you have at your disposal. If you think you should keep hate just with provoke, quite obviously you're not cut out to tank in a game that poses any level of challenge.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Tanking is boring if all you gotta do to keep enmity is spam taunt/provoke.

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I agree, but it seems like enmity generated is lower than it was prior to the patch. So I think something is bugged. Wardrum for instance isn't nearly as effective as it used to be for some reason. But I'm sure these problems will be resolved. The cool downs aren't soo bad, but I would be happier if the enmity was slightly adjusted.

Gladiator is not a tank.

Gladiator is a solo-class with access to a wealth of abilities.

The actual tank job is yet to be introduced.

Can anyone give some tips for tanking in the r50 dungeon? I should probably practice with the enmity system outside of the dungeon instead of testing things on the ogre over and over. I'm having major issues holding hate with provoke taunt war drum warmonger cure II sacrifice II heavy slash heavy stab. I try all of these and hate is ripped off of me like they're nothing.

While It's very possible the enmity system just needs some tweaking and adjusting.

I'm just going to throw out the idea that maybe enmity in this game isn't going to be the sole responsibility of the tank. There are a lot of enmity tools across several classes in this game. Perhaps enmity will end up being something of a meta-game in combat. Something that everyone has to contribute to in order to keep it stable. Rather than just the tired notion that the tank just needs to pile on enmity generation while everyone else swings away until they pull hate.

Again this is just a thought in my head. I can't in any way speak with any sort of basis for it. Just something to ponder over.

Enmity holding, takes longer now then it used to when building hate, but it is not impossible.

Curing yourself some actully gives decent hate.
Accomplice is godly now for getting more hate, all while lowering other players.
War monger is decent hate
Voke and Taunt seem really weak to me, honestly disorientate seems to pull about the same amount of hate.
Heavy stab/slash seem to pull more hate then they use to as well.
Wardrum is soso as well it seems, weaker then warmonger anyways.

Over all it is alot harder to get hate at the start of something, but after a few rounds of your abilities you should have hate fairly stable.

Myself and other tanks in the dungeon get and hold hate on the ogre in about 45 secs. Hate is on the tanks unless they die pretty much at that point.

It will take getting use to it is very different. Before you archers could go in guns (well bows) blazing and be fine... they do that now and everyone gets decimated. Hate control is now important for every member of the party. Need to monitor the hate threshold and make more use of the enmity up/down abilities/potions and such.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Enmity holding takes longer now then it used to, but it is not impossible.

Curing yourself some actully gives decent hate.
Accomplice is godly now for getting more hate, all while lowering other players.
War monger is decent hate
Voke and Taunt seem really weak to me, honestly disorientate seems to pull about the same amount of hate.
Heavy stab/slash seem to pull more hate then they use to as well.
Wardrum is soso as well it seems, weaker then warmonger anyways.

Over all it is alot harder to get hate at the start of something, but after a few rounds of your abilities you should have hate fairly stable.

Myself and other tanks in the dungeon get and hold hate on the ogre in about 45 secs. Hate is on the tanks unless they die pretty much at that point.

It will take getting use to it is very different. Before you archers could go in guns (well bows) blazing and be fine... they do that now and everyone gets decimated. Hate control is now important for every member of the party. Need to monitor the hate threshold and make more use of the enmity up/down abilities/potions and such.

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Agreed, people have a lot of ways to generate hate. As far as taunt and provoke, provoke is just going to increase the amount of enmity you accrue, while taunt pretty much always turns the mob your way, hence the long cooldown. Provoke doesn't generate as much threat as I like, but there is sooo much room to adapt and change your style that I consider it a tank's paradise. You made a pretty good list, so I really don't have much to add except for extremely detailed techniques I use (which are not complicated nor impressive, just boring and common sense).

Yeah, I seemed to be doing pretty well against the ogre as a PGL (had hate until I died, Ogre was <40% health). Biggest helps seemed to be Accomplice, Jarring Strike, and the one everyone forgets about, Barrage. Taunting and Provoking as needed, of course, but those three seemed to be my big abilities. Well, I was also using Second Wind II, but I'm not sure how much that accounted for.

If you're doing it wrong, then Voke/Taunt is the only thing you gonna use.

If you're doing it right as a GLA tank you pretty much cycle through around 15 skills+-2/3, depending on your bars and what skills you got available.

Just a small summary of what I use just for hate.

War Drum
Phalanx 2
Warmonger
Provoke 2
Taunt
Disorient 2
Second Wind 2(using a TP based self heal generates a lot of enmity and since its TP based you will never hav the issue of running out of MP)
Cure 3(in emergencies)
Shield Bash 2
Spinstroke 2

Thats just for hate, for tanking in itself it is...

Aegis Boon 2
Deflection
Outmaneuver+Sentinel
Obsess 2
Rampart 2
Emulate
Tempered Will

It is pretty safe to claim, that if you're tanking serious stuff, that GLA is one of the classes that uses the most skills out of all classes to actually do its job. So it's far from "boring"...