Yoshi-P: "...the future of the Japanese game industry isn't that bright..."

Pretty insightful comments from Yoshi-P in the latest Live Letter, and probably the first time I've seen a Japanese game developer express a feeling that western studios were producing superior games.

But I kinda disagree with him. I do likes me some Fallout or Witcher, but I still think today's JRPGs are better than western RPGs, and FFXIV is the best MMORPG out there today (but that's damning with faint praise).

whaaat?? I LOVE their games.

Been a fan of the FF series since SNES! and to hear that makes me sad because I think they're doing an awesome job! and I'm not just talking about SE. The lore, the graphics and character designs... I love it all and never liked anything I played that was made in western studios (from FPS to RPG's...I don't know what it is but no game got me hooked and pulled me in like JRPG's do. *shrugs*)

thats just my opinion though.

It's because they've shifted focus to trying to please the western playerbase..basically lost their way in a sense.

The problem with japan is back in the day they made games for their home audience and we got them as a by-product of that. Now the japanese audience has gone full on mobile (see TGS) which caused the larger devs to start making games for a western audience which never really worked. Look at FFXIII and Resident Evil 6 for examples.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It's because they've shifted focus to trying to please the western playerbase..basically lost their way in a sense.

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I think you're absolutely right. I hope the success of games like Bravely Default and Xenoblade Chronicles helps them come to their senses.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Pretty insightful comments from Yoshi-P in the latest Live Letter, and probably the first time I've seen a Japanese game developer express a feeling that western studios were producing superior games.

But I kinda disagree with him. I do likes me some Fallout or Witcher, but I still think today's JRPGs are better than western RPGs, and FFXIV is the best MMORPG out there today (but that's damning with faint praise).

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There's actually been a tidal wave of Japanese developers in the last 5 years expressing that western developers have overtaken, among them Keiji Inafune and Hideo Kojima.

I agree with you, and not them - I've always very strongly preferred Japanese games, such as Final Fantasy and everything from Nintendo. Although I do like Bethesda a lot, I still prefer the style of FF when it comes to RPG.

I find it interesting. I really got into video games through JRPGs, but nowadays I do find myself really interested in western rpgs. I think the western ones allow for more character customization and many (Dragon Age, for example) are delivering on fantastic stories at the same time. FF is still a series I'm always going to pay attention to, but I do see what he's saying.

Still, my fondest memories of games when I was younger were FFX and Tales of Symphonia. Hopefully they can bring back that magic, at least for me anyway.

Some of the best times I've had with gaming is with JRPGs on my PS3. Ni no kuni, Valkryie Chronicles. Tales series, Persona 4 and kingdom hearts come to mind. I also loved The world ends with you, professor layton, trauma center, Etrian Odyssey, Shin megami Tensei, Chrono Trigger and of course the FF series (IV and VI especially) on the DS. I don't really understand why Yoshi would say that and I hope they don't stop producing these awesome games.

While many of us would appear to love JRPGs and their ilk I have to wonder how much of the potential market we represent. I could play games like Valkyria Chronicles for the rest of my days but I know most of my game-playing friends wouldn't touch it with a shitty stick.

The only reason I find myself preferring WRPGs to JRPGs these days is there is faaaaar too much angst in JRPGs. That and for some reason, localisation on a lot of them is absolutely horrible, which for an RPG good translations are important.

The best way to save japanese game market on the west:
1. Keep the classic old school japanese feeling, like from the old FF games.
2. Give western players ability to choose original japanese voiceover.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

The only reason I find myself preferring WRPGs to JRPGs these days is there is faaaaar too much angst in JRPGs. That and for some reason, localisation on a lot of them is absolutely horrible, which for an RPG good translations are important.

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Yeah this is a big problem. Sometimes it feels like the localisation teams have a warped view of what the fans want and end up using terrible voice actors with bad scripts.

Best recent(ish) work was FFXII and Nier.

Also, refrain from making games like Hyperdimension Neptunia ever again.

That probably set the West's perception of JRPGs back a hundred years.

The problem is they try too hard to appeal to the western market, just like Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn does by copying WoW at every chance it gets.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

While many of us would appear to love JRPGs and their ilk I have to wonder how much of the potential market we represent.

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Probably quite a bit, or at least enough to make it profitable. Bravely Default sold I think close to 900k units worldwide. Lots of nostalgic Gen-Y/millennials out there.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Also, refrain from making games like Hyperdimension Neptunia ever again.

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But...jiggle physics...

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Also, refrain from making games like Hyperdimension Neptunia ever again.

That probably set the West's perception of JRPGs back a hundred years.

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That's actually the main reason why JRPGs are in a decline... because most of them are like hyperdimension neptunia.

And the angst... the teenage angst.

And looking back at how I was playing tales of xillia... might be just me but lately jrpgs have been getting more linear in terms of exploration. Didn't like how that game didn't have much of an over-world.

Yeah, Japanese companies have to stop worrying about what western companies are doing and do their own thing, which pretty much built their houses in the first place. I laughed my ass of with Sqaure-Enix when they said they were surprised that Bravely Default did so well. Well, holy crap, you make...whatever Final Fantasy XIII was supposed to be and it's derided by your fans, but you make Bravely Default like a proper Final Fantasy game, and all your Final Fantasy fans buy it up. HOW CAN IT BE!?

Generally I think Japanese games are fun, but could someone please explain this to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmsRcsl_xA#t=29

(I love Japanese games, anime, culture & food... spent almost two weeks visiting Tokyo in 2003)

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

2. Give western players ability to choose original japanese voiceover.

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That will change nothing...

Personally.

The biggest mistake the Japanese game industry made was trying to appeal to the western market by "westernizing" their games and relying on bought out reviews to market their titles. That direction affected them negatively because they didn't expand the core existence of their creativity but instead they lost their franchises identity which riled up their fanbases because they are actually passionate about what they enjoy. This change in direction affected all those companies that decided to make that change while not bothering to understand their own install base.

FF-FFX were loved because they were what they are at their core, Final Fantasy games. The concept of "westernizing" wasn't present and adamant then. Sure FFX got some bad reception but that's because after FFX a lot of well known content and concepts have been absent and there's been no attempt to implement them again. Airship travel in open world. Limit Breaks aren't what they used to be, materia, sphere grids, license boards, unlockable side character and summons, extra content that shows story relevant lore and how expansive the world is. Class/Job system, advance job system, customization and diversity. List goes on and on.

Did they get bad reviews? Sure and it got good reviews and reception as well but that's because each Final Fantasy was made different which only created a very diverse community that loved each and every FF for what it was.

Personally with the FNC project to me Nomura and Tabata understood that core concept while Kitase and Toriyama did not. Yet both Kitase and Toriyama could have made the FFXIII saga an overall great experience but the approach not just their titles but their fanbase is what hurt them the most and just like FFXIV 1.0 they lost a lot of trust.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

While many of us would appear to love JRPGs and their ilk I have to wonder how much of the potential market we represent. I could play games like Valkyria Chronicles for the rest of my days but I know most of my game-playing friends wouldn't touch it with a shitty stick.

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Each franchise is gonna have its own set install base and loyal fanbase. So it depends if you mean those that are gonna be loyal to a name brand or actually like the franchise but have standards.

Personally it's something you have to gauge by looking at the first week sales and comparing it to how it sales in a 3 month period. Some fanbases have it easier than others. For the west those numbers are greatly influenced by drawing in the casual consumer, over compulsive buyer, through means of media reviews and scores. Which "westernizing" relied heavily on and backfired horribly.

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Originally Posted by Ahmbor

That will change nothing...

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I agree. It is also a pain to implement. Besides having to store double the audio files, they also need to include the lip sync animations. That's disc space better used for more actual content. If it was done it would likely be an optional download.

The Shin Megami Tensei series is doing fairly well, despite still being fairly niche. And are we counting Pokemon? Because that is endlessly popular. RE and FF have both realized the demand for back to basics horror/RPG games, and seem to be making changes to it. The Evil Within is looking strong in that regard, same with Bravely Default. In terms of MMO's, I don't know of any other Japanese MMO's. There are about 500 Korean MMO's, and a few Western ones, but I'm not sure what else from Japan.

We are a biased audience. Basically we (a good number of us) are here because we like JP culture in some form or another.

My interest was piqued and so I went to research a little more about what yoshi actually said and for those interested:

At this year's E3, my feelings about how the future of the Japanese game industry isn't that bright became stronger than ever. Many of the NextGen titles that are coming out are taking rights with new and challenging gaming experiences. Also, there are a good number of new IPs coming out as well. AS far as animation goes, Japanese titles often have impressive visuals, but looking at the titles from North America, the entire arrangement of cutscenes is composed like a movie. Looking only at the motions, it may seem somewhat odd, but how the game experience and cutscenes come together is stunning. FFXIV is an MMO and has to be capable of displaying hundreds of characters simultaneously, so it's not possible to compare directly, but in these titles they concentrate everything on the quality and animation control of the 4- or 5-person multiplayer experience. And it's not only the major studios. Small independent studios are also putting everything they've got into single titles. I feel that we should follow that example and continue to challenge ourselves.

I pretty strongly disagree that the strength of JRPGs come from their visuals, For me they always have been about a good storyline, solid gameplay and a providing a good challenge. FFXIII proves that graphics cannot save a game if the gameplay or story is weak. So many games have focused so much resources and time into graphics at the cost of other aspects. It also worries me that Yoshi seems to want to implement more cutscenes. If i wanted to watch cutscenes, I would go watch a movie instead of playing a game. Old games like Baldur's gate was able to tell a story through dialogue without the use of cutscenes so it seems like excessive cutscenes are a shortcut taken by developers who are unable or unwilling to flesh out a good story. Personally, I can't think of JRPGs without thinking of hard and challenging content. Etrian Odyssey, knights in the nightmare and Devil's Survivor are good examples of these.

I like the core FF themes, but can take or leave the JP stuff. They are trying to “westernize” their games, but still imposing huge amounts of cultural rigidity.

It doesn’t work. For someone like me that isn’t completely enamored with “all things JP”, I don’t really care if they find certain things taboo or certain fetish type things okay. Legit Western games offer customization and JP games don’t.

That would be okay if the story was incredibly good (like the old FFs, Chrono, Mana etc.)… but part of their version of “westernization” seems to be watered down storylines.

They end up with the worst of both worlds. Grindy games, little story, rigid characters, and overly JP motifs can be a real turn off. It just feels like an angsty teen environment that resents western culture and romanticizes JP culture.

Compelling story and characters allows fusion of different styles that creates a much more immersive world, imo. EQ had lots of different motifs... variety is good.

I still play Tactics Advance 2 on the DS.

Japan is literally trying to take the best of the worse situation and make something out of it. If your culture isn't into console games and rather play mobile/arcade then adapt to the times. FF-Type 0 is a handheld title along with bravely default and both did remarkably well. People don't want to sit in their home and stare at a monitor all day in Japan anymore.

They want to be at the park while doing it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Double

I still play Tactics Advance 2 on the DS.

Japan is literally trying to take the best of the worse situation and make something out of it. If your culture isn't into console games and rather play mobile/arcade then adapt to the times. FF-Type 0 is a handheld title along with bravely default and both did remarkably well. People don't want to sit in their home and stare at a monitor all day in Japan anymore.

They want to be at the park while doing it. ;)

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That is true for the global video games market.
Not that there aren't any big success in console/PC games any more, but small/mobile games are where it's happening nowadays.
Candy Crush and other Facebook-like minigames are the future of the industry. Casual market to the extreme... and it's working. This market is exploding while the classic video games market is having a harder time.

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Originally Posted by Double

Casual games isn't demoralizing the hardcore/console market.

Most people who are playing Candy Crush and many other tablet/mobile/handhelds are on the go or getting that one game in before getting back on the job or whatever they are doing.

It's not when they could be at home playing in front of a T.V.

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Not saying those minigames are stealing customers from the classic video games (I believe that, if anything, it's the opposite).

Where it could have an effect, is for the people who work in the industry. Because ultimately, they need to make money.
It's not that handheld games drive people away from consoles, it's just that it's where the money is, and a relatively bigger market than home games. Which is why I believe it's the future of the industry.

Yeah I agree. I think Japan could still be the king of RPG games but that's only one genre of game. I'd say western developers/publishers are creating more unique and successful IP's nowadays that cover a wider genre.

Hes right and wrong. I remember the ps1 and ps2 days where i had to choose qhich jrpg to play just because there was too much and i didnt have time for them all.

During the ps3 i was scrounging around for even half decent ones like white knight chronicles and the atelier series (which has been around since ps1 and is actually really good).

Ps4 im just playing ffxiv atm

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Originally Posted by Billie21

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Casual games isn't demoralizing the hardcore/console market.

Most people who are playing Candy Crush and many other tablet/mobile/handhelds are on the go or getting that one game in before getting back on the job or whatever they are doing.

It's not when they could be at home playing in front of a T.V.

This is not new to me. I've been getting this vibe from interviews/statements from various Japanese developers in different genres as well, over the past years. What immediately comes to mind are the devs from various horror games, as well as Hideo Kojima angsting about the latest GTA games in comparison to his Metal Gear series.

The general tenor is usually: the west puts more resources into their games, or is more revolutionary in their design choices, or put more effort into their titles, or they have more potential for innovation.

I don't agree 100%, but what do I know.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Japan used to be world-leading in the field of video games up into and through the 90s, but since some shifts around the millenium, there has been a lot of creative energy and major success stories going around for some western developers.

I see potential for healthy competition. If this is going to inspire JP developers to give 200% instead of 100%, it sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

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Only reason I've noticed that ever become an issue is due to the fact of "competitive" competition which is enforced by "corrupt media" which is no myth since a lot of those reviews have stated that their reviews where "bought out".

Which personally it is an issue because it has only enforced chaos more than it has promoted competition.

If I were to compare the competition approach from the 4th generation most games would mimic a winning formula but kept true to their story and genre and if we compared that same approach to the 7th generation we end up with a horrible format that doesn't work for most games.

Example:
4th gen: Batman, Spiderman, The Mask, Super Star-Wars.
7th gen: Batman, Spiderman, Hulk.

It's sad that most companies would list to reviews especially when they are fixed over listening to their honest fanbase.

Japan has shifted their focus to cell phone games because that is what their consumers find popular now. But I loved the 13 series I platinumed all 3 games some of the best FF games I have played and I have played all of them.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

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ReviewtechUSA made a decent argument based on something not directly about, but dangerously close to this situation.

Capcom(A japanese company) is currently throwing themselves up for sale thanks to God-Awful sales from pretty much all their major IPs and horrendous backlash of the community.

Why is this happening?

To be blunt, Japanese companies are just too damn arrogant and stubborn and never admits to being wrong.

Capcom is literally on its last leg and it's exactly because they tried to "Westernize!" ALL their major selling games into some generic trash in order to snag some of that Call-Of-Duty dollar.

They see the major IPs and idolize their games as "success" and "future" when it was the west scavenging for years, trying to compete with Nintendo and their "Immortal" status among the gaming world.

Capcom's problems weren't however the centralization of their games; It was their total disregard and shunning of the playerbase. Now, their own local fanbase doesn't want anything from them and their games are nothing that Call-Of-Duty or any other "AAA" game has out that couldn't do better.

Square's problem was that their sense of direction took a massive hit due to FF13 becoming "Westernized" and SE's arrogance on their part to ignore fanbase. Many western companies have a great idea of how a RPG should play or how they can incorporate the RPG elements into a first-person shooter.

The west took something the east created and evolved it. Japan is still trying to reinvent that wheel for some strange reason.

Japanese companies are falling on their own swords.

And no, I don't believe Copypasta games is or ever will be a good idea no matter how well the criteria works..