Was going through and rewatching the story CS from 2.0 main story, and came across something that made me think. In the post credit roll CS where Bahamut roars, we undergo a migraine/echo vision of a giant dark crystal, which with the following CS with the Ascians, we all assumed that darn crystal was Zodiark. But we see it via the power of the echo, so what if that crystal isn't actually Zodiark, but Hydaelyn losing her light? Perhaps her losing her light turns her into Zodiark? Are Hydaelyn and Zodiark one and the same being, neither existing while the other does, and so must wait for the power of the other to wane?
The scariest part of all this is that the Echo seems to serve as a direct link to Hydaelyn in our minds....if that is Zodiark and we can get visions of it like that, it doesn't bode well for us since that means Zodiark would have a direct link into our minds as well. O.O
*Runs to grab a darksteel hat before its too late.
Hydaelyn and Zodiark
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06-23-2014, 10:58 PMKichaHydaelyn and Zodiark
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06-24-2014, 12:14 PMAnonymooseWhat if, indeed. All of those are possibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicha
The only reason I've been leaning toward the interpretation that it was the "dark crystal" (for now) is how well it fits with old school Final Fantasy lore and the fact that we had just spoken to Hydaelyn a short time before and she seemed fine. Not all that much happened between the time we drove out Lahabrea and killed(?) Gaius and the time we celebrated driving out Lahabrea and killing(?) Gaius. Thancred's still so weak he's in his pajammers. Could Bahamut's stirring drive that much power out of her? And why cut directly from that scene to the reveal of Zodiark's name?
On the other hand, the "dying Hydaelyn" interpretation certainly explains why she's been pretty quiet for a few patches... -
06-24-2014, 12:57 PMEnkidoh
Indeed, I've been partial to the same idea, particularly as watching the ending scenes to the main scenario seem to basically shout that (the dialogue the Mothercrystal states clearly hints that Zodiark, far from being 'a different side of the same coin', is in fact co-existing with her, and for the player to be mindful of him (spoilered for those just joining us):
Quote:
Originally Posted by main scenario quest 'The Ultimate Weapon'
Some interesting ideas were hinted at here. Not only the fact that it seems Zodiark is not actually an 'opposing state' of Hydaelyn - that he in fact seems to already exist, somewhere, and that Hyadelyn was fully aware of that... that also that whole scene indeed seemed in hindsight to be something of a "goodbye and goodluck" gesture by the Mothercrystal - that the player had completed their task and were now being left pretty much to their own devices and she she was wishing them well in whatever the future holds. It would definitely explain Her lack of appearances since then in the storyline in any event. -
06-24-2014, 02:36 PMAnonymooseI got that feeling, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
At first I had the feeling that we were dealing with a Light World / Dark World and a crystal for each scenario, whereby each crystal found the other's existence an abomination but were in fact co-dependent on balance. I was thinking for a while that the Warriors of Light vs. Ascians as the Warriors of Dark would eventually unfold into both sides against the forces of chaos and oblivion folding in on both worlds. With all we've learned since, I've decided against trying to make predictions until we get something more substantial as a clue - that'll be when I come back for these breadcrumbs, lol. Idkwtf to expect anymore :P
I'm gonna stick to collecting stuff about the world and the past for now. -
06-24-2014, 02:44 PMKerberon
The question in my mind is, Is the echo just Hydaelyn's version of tempering us? And if it is, will we get to have a few dark quest objectives if Zodiark takes over?
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06-24-2014, 06:42 PMAnonymoose
Something tells me I might start moving away from the "duality of the crystal" theory a little faster now.
There also seem to be twelve of those platforms there... -
06-24-2014, 07:20 PMEltaire
What I find interesting is that the Ascians are all named after Scions of Light from Final Fantasy XII.
I am wondering if Eorzea may be a pre-Ivalice.
The evidence is in the uniforms of the officials in the Garlean Empire highly resembling that of Judges.
Not only that, but Hunts are being introduced, which was in Final Fantasy XII.
A Belias-egi was summoned by Tristian in the final Summoner quest, and it was confirmed that Belias is an Elder Primal. The Ascian that gave the power of the summon, could very well have been Loghrif.
So much to consider, and so many exciting things on the horizon! -
06-24-2014, 07:24 PMAnonymooseYou'll find strands of DNA from several Final Fantasies, but such theories have come up enough times for this to have been said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eltaire
Answer #55 from the now-missing Patch 2.2 Letter from the Producer LIVE Q&A.Quote:
To be absolutely clear, there is no connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice.
Likewise there is no connection with FFXI’s Vana’diel.
Each are their own individual world.
Think of it as FFXIV being both its own world and a loving homage to previous installments of the franchise. You'll even see this separation bent a little bit at times, like when the devs nudge you like, "Ehhh? Remember that? EHHH!?" on things like the item description of the Smallshell. -
06-24-2014, 08:14 PMSaikou
Moose, what the hell am I looking at? I'm sure evoking my very response is why this scene is in the trailer. But seriously. It's been a while since I played any of the ivalice games. Anyone present know if this thing before Eldibs in the trailer resembles anything from previous Final Fantasies?
Its so out of focus, but... I recently read the article for Shinryu on FF Wikia. There's more than a passing resemblance. It's certainly closer to him than the portrayals of Zodiark on the same wiki. Look closely, you can see his wings, his claws, his tail. If it is the case, then we've certainly been given another great threat for a post-Bahamut world.
Closer examination exposes some seeming human features. This gives "him" some greater superficial resemblance to the FFXII versions of some of the Ivalice Espers. Mateus and Zalera in particular, due to their wings and dark coloration. The more I look at the full size of moose's picture, the more I see a dark man on a dark throne... which sounds like a prophecy from a completely different fictitious world. If this = Mateus = Lahabrea... Due to what Eldibs said in 2.1, you can't help but entertain that thought on the basis of what little information we have.
This place, seemingly in the void, has an uncanny resemblance to The Hall of The Gods in FFXI. I once took a pilgrimage to that place. Before I had gotten that far in Zilart. Before I had defeated Promathia. It was just such a big monument to Vana'dielian religion having basis in Vana'dielian history that I had to go see it for myself. To those who had progressed far enough in Zilart, it was merely the gateway to a land of loot pinatas. It always struck me that once the gate had been unlocked, there was no reason to remain in the hall. The statue of Altana was above the entryway to the floating island of Tu'Lia. The statue of Promathia was above the entryway from Vana'diel.
12 great pillars aligned in an oblong formation. A dark creature at one end. Seemingly nothing at the other end. Elidibus stands on a platform at the center of this elaborate edifice, beholding this dark creature that appears to be perched upon a frozen starbust of darkness. If that's just not the definition of ominous. Zodiark? Lahabrea? Something completely different? The next few weeks will have my mind racing with speculation...
Edit: I find whether or not Hydaelyn is pre-Ivalice or not to be highly irrelevant regardless of what The Yoshida said. On the contrary, there are very clear connections in names and likenesses. Which is why people like me speculate on perceived similarities. I believe Yoshida meant to say that XIV is its own game with its own lore and it's own story and it is not bound to play out in any way like any of the previous or future installments in the series. On the other hand... Lahabrea. Zodiark. Elidibus. Crystal fucking Tower. Xande himself. And a Cloud of Darkness on the horizon. Indeed, no connection. -
06-24-2014, 09:11 PMEltaireExactly. If it is indeed that the world bears resemblance to Ivalice, Yoshida isn't going to outright say that's the case - especially if that's part of the behind doors concepts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saikou
I am just really excited to see that we'll get some more Ishgard story, and it appears a visitation with the Holy See, perhaps. :D -
06-24-2014, 09:32 PMXmbei
Then this world is a post war of magi ffvi world of balance world!!!! Seriously been playing ffvi and seeing even more ffvi connections then ivalice. You have an empire that farmed primals, a new empire using magitech and destroying a kingdom of Doma. A seal that broke in the silverfall battle releasing the primals. Just as the espers sealed themselves away in seperate world. An empire (Garlean) that sprang up over night with new powers and conquered the world. Seriously you can make many ff connections in ffxiv.
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06-24-2014, 09:32 PMAnonymooseVaguely. It's all about the rounded shape. They're not direct correlates, however. Put the image below (one of FFXII's forms of Zodiark) next to the image seen in the Defenders of Eorzea trailer. Notice how many of the shapes are shared between the two forms. These are two different manifestations of Square Enix's concept of Ophiuchus (Serpentarius), the 13th constellation of the Zodiark. I mean Zodiak. I mean Zodiac.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saikou
The connections are thematic alone, is what he means. Final Fantasy is all about taking names and concepts from history and mythology and using each as an abstract theme that manifests differently in every installment. Over time, the franchise has added its own fictional creations to the pot of real-world ones. For instance, Excalibur of FFXIII is not the same Excalibur that was in FFXII, which itself is not the same Excalibur that was in FFXI, which itself was not the same Excalibur that was in FFXI, and so on. These swords share a name, and sometimes a theme, but have no connection to one another whatsoever. Likewise, the Crystal Tower of Final Fantasy XIV has no connection to the Crystal Tower of Final Fantasy III. They have a shared theme and the former takes inspiration from the latter. The rare exceptions to this are the dimension-hoppers; Gilgamesh, Shantotto, and Lightning, so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saikou
There's a shared theme between the Scions of Light and the Ascians, though we don't fully understand how deep that goes, yet. It could be that they wanted something lining up with astrological mythology and decided to keep the lore "in-house" by using the same structure and fictional connections they used for FFXII, as an homage, or it could be that there are meant to be hints in the present links to foreshadow what's coming. Homage, foreshadow, you never can tell with Squenix.
Also, they seem to have spelled his name wrong on that page. Xande was a character in Final Fantasy III. The first Emperor of the Allagan Empire has been named as Xandes by everyone to mention him in FFXIV thus far. -
06-24-2014, 11:00 PMlilirulu
Also, should be noted that any design similarities may also be because Akihiko Yoshida worked on FF14 and 12 (as well as Bravely Default; and you may have noticed in hartschild (in BF) the women wear outfits similar in design the to Bliad in ffxiv).
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06-24-2014, 11:20 PMMergadethWhat is that image from??Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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06-24-2014, 11:23 PMAnonymooseNew trailer! Go see, go see!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergadeth
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06-25-2014, 01:20 AMMorningstar1337That explaisn why there are FF XII monsters (in a doylist sence at least) Nor can anyone ask YoshiP if he can add the Mimics from that game in?Quote:
Originally Posted by lilirulu
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06-25-2014, 01:41 AMAlenoreThere's already Mimics, in Lost City of Amdapor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
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06-25-2014, 02:52 AMMorningstar1337FF XII Mimics
The Mimics there looks more closer to the traditional mimics than what I have in mind.
This is a mimic from XII
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...imic-ffxii.png
Here is some variants of that monster
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...imic-ffxii.png
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...imeo-ffxii.png
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../Bug-ffxii.png
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...rbug-ffxii.png
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...dora-ffxii.png
There's also The Clockwork Bug. A variant introduced in XIV in Turn 4. I was referring to those monsters. But I digress, this is supposed to be about Hydaelyn and Zodiark right? -
06-25-2014, 03:51 AMAnonymooseQuote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenore
If a treasure chest mimic mimics a treasure chest that doesn't look anything like the treasure chests of the land the mimic is in, is it still a mimic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
Perception is everything. FFXII mimics are in Eorzea, but considering they look nothing like our coffers, we can't very well say they're they're meaningfully mimicking anything. Their mimic state has thus been re-imagined as a sort of stand-by mode, by the looks of things. The mimics in Amdapor keep seem to be the only ones worthy of the name in Eorzea so far. Unless the Allag have clockwork bug chests in the later turns... Oh, god, do they!? DO THEY!? WHAT IF THEY DO!
Also, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
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06-25-2014, 04:15 AMSaikou
You can get around the character limit by editing your post.
Its a bit of a stretch to say that this looks like the FFXII version of Zodiark. This guy looks a bit more human, which is why I suggest the other Ivalice Espers. Looking at freezeframe at 1080p, this monstrosity looks likei t has wings and a human head. I suppose its his giant arms and the red crest that make him look closer to Zodiark. -
06-25-2014, 04:27 AMMorningstar1337I knew we were going to get tot that. I think the Mimics of FFXII would have to be renamed if they were implemented in XIV (Probably to something involving "Spider", "Arachnid" or "Bug".) The normal mimic which the Clockwork Bug is based on might be called "Weathered Clockwork Bug" While the Bug and Thunderbug versions (and maybe Pandora) might be spared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
That would eb interesting. I also wanted to see enemies based on the Zodiac appear (the espers are one example)Quote:
Originally Posted by Saikou
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06-25-2014, 07:15 PMRoclEr, what? Aren't Clockwork Bugs (the monsters in Coil Turn 4 and Second Coil Turn 3) Mimics from FFXII? I mean, they're not "mimics" they're "clockwork bugs" since they aren't mimicking anything Eorzean we know but I find it weird you're asking for a monster model to be included that already has been. I suspect we might even seen them in Syrcus Tower since Clockwork Soldiers seem to appear there too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
More related to the topic at hand, I feel Ramuh will shed some light on the nature of Hydaelyn and Zodiark for us (I hope) since in the English trailer he says something like "For Light and Dark were given form when man was born." Which might mean the expected plot twist of "DARK DOESN'T MEAN BAD; LIGHT DOESN'T MEAN GOOD" -
06-25-2014, 07:29 PMMalrend
Mum and Dad are fighting a custody battle.. FOR ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN (in whom life flows abundant).
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06-25-2014, 09:08 PMAlenoreSomething interesting is, in French he says "Les humains apportent la souillure et le conflit, où qu'ils aillent!", that could be translated into "Humans bring taint and strife wherever they go".Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocl
So much for the "He's testing us". He seems quite angry about us. -
06-25-2014, 10:17 PMMorningstar1337What can I say? I like muh palate swapsQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocl
Knowing the other primals that's probably gonna come off as him saying "Humans are bastards" or some nihilist screed.Quote:
More related to the topic at hand, I feel Ramuh will shed some light on the nature of Hydaelyn and Zodiark for us (I hope) since in the English trailer he says something like "For Light and Dark were given form when man was born." Which might mean the expected plot twist of "DARK DOESN'T MEAN BAD; LIGHT DOESN'T MEAN GOOD"
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06-26-2014, 12:24 AMSaikou
Well, in certain instances, the "enlightened peoples" certainly have been bastards. Limsa has twice been saved for encroaching on beastie territory. And Merlwyb isn't exactly remorseful when Y'shtola calls her out on this. This has always kind of amused me. In the case of Ul'dah, there is no love lost between amal'ja and the people. However, we don't see a lot of Ul'dahn aggression towards them. The amal'ja notoriously attack caravans on the main Thanalan trade routes, however, often to obtain crystals. In the forest, Moggle King was summoned as a result of fear of the Garleans and of another calamity than anything else. Such seems to be the case with Ramuh as well since the Garleans have the only ground route to the rest of Eorzea through Sylph territory. Why his usual defensive posture has changed... we shall see. An argument could be made for aggression against the Ixal by Gridanians. There's a bigger issue of the elementals certainly disproving of their logging in North Shroud.
So have we been bastards to the beast tribes, such that the primals would be justified in thinking that? In some cases, we certainly have. In the case of Ramuh, however... The Gridanians and the Sylphs have regular diplomatic contact such that their leaders know each other by name. Yeah, I'd like some context regards why Ramuh says what he says.