Accs really should have class reqs...

Just got out of an hour hour brayflox HM run, yeah... An hour...

Party IQ not withstanding I noticed that the WHM's heals were doing basically nothing, I examined and they were wearing full i100 INT gear, not a point of MND to be found. So I mentioned it and (of course) they said that the tank was taking too much damage... SO I checked them, Curtana, ok, Holy shield, ok... Darklight band of aiming, neck of aiming, earings of aiming, kneck of aiming... Their justification, "It is better".

They each had around 50-60 points of stats that were entirely useless to them and gave nothing to make the party's dungeon any easier.

Excluding perhaps crafting accs (lolSB), should there be class reqs on this equipment? To help people from themselves...

The only problem with this would be for tanks that use dps accessories when in the open world to help their dps. While this might help, you really can't save people from themselves, they'll still do something else, and if you eliminate all choice the game gets rather boring.

Oh I totally get where you are coming from, I know on my WAR if im off tanking and not going to be taking many hits I will throw on some STR accs and DPS fo days. Was there not a system in 1.0 that had recommended classes? So if it wasnt in one of those the stat was less effective? Though I know pretty much everything of 1.0 is something to be forgotten XD.

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Originally Posted by pikster

Just got out of an hour hour brayflox HM run, yeah... An hour...

Party IQ not withstanding I noticed that the WHM's heals were doing basically nothing, I examined and they were wearing full i100 INT gear, not a point of MND to be found. So I mentioned it and (of course) they said that the tank was taking too much damage... SO I checked them, Curtana, ok, Holy shield, ok... Darklight band of aiming, neck of aiming, earings of aiming, kneck of aiming... Their justification, "It is better".

They each had around 50-60 points of stats that were entirely useless to them and gave nothing to make the party's dungeon any easier.

Excluding perhaps crafting accs (lolSB), should there be class reqs on this equipment? To help people from themselves...

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Mmk... Pro tank tank you are who doesn't read stat descriptions. You're just mad that he found out before you did.

Dexterity improves blocking rate for a Paladin... it is in fact, much better.

It's actually really not better to use DEX gear on PLD. The eHP of straight VIT outweighs the mitigation of DEX.
Bad tanks be bad

Luckily what you're experiencing is a 1 in a 100 situation. Bad players will always be bad. Ain't nothing you can do about it except for make a premade. I gave up on the DF a long time ago!

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Mmk... Pro tank tank you are who doesn't read stat descriptions. You're just mad that he found out before you did.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Dexterity improves blocking rate for a Paladin... it is in fact, much better.

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Two troll posts in a row, okay I'll bite. Unless something has changed since I last saw, dexterity boosts block and parry rate by such a pathetically small amount it's not even worth considering. Unless you have a link to some documented testing on the subject, quit spreading misinformation.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Dexterity improves blocking rate for a Paladin... it is in fact, much better.

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You remind me of this BLM who asked why I was using i110 masterwork weapon over tidal wave staff because "the stats aren't as good". You're sacrificing vit for det. Too many people read some min maxing meta talk and greatly outweigh its importance.

I've seen a lot of people do this during Titan HM. They use whatever gear they can to raise their item level, have terrible HP, expect a carry, and die to stomps.

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Originally Posted by Cadwgan

Two troll posts in a row, okay I'll bite. Unless something has changed since I last saw, dexterity boosts block and parry rate by such a pathetically small amount it's not even worth considering. Unless you have a link to some documented testing on the subject, quit spreading misinformation.

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You kind of just gave away that you have no idea what the stats actually do in the last sentence. And... "last time I saw": so what documentation do you have to back up your claims? It should be pretty obvious if the stats didn't do anything, then they would have just left the effect as determining ranged damage.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

You kind of just gave away that you have no idea what the stats actually do in the last sentence. And... "last time I saw": so what documentation do you have to back up your claims? It should be pretty obvious if the stats didn't do anything, then they would have just left the effect as determining ranged damage.

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just going to drop here, it was done by a redditor. it might just be a lack of testing but it seems that parry rate actually drops at higher dex rates. block rate seems fine however.
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...BlockRates.png


though in reality it wouldn't be a good idea to use aiming jewlery or melding for dexterity on a tank unless your testing this. acc/parry/vit are still our important stats.

Parry goes down as block goes up because you can't parry a blocked hit. You'd have to test dex gains on a WAR or on a PLD minus a shield to see it's effect on parry.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I've seen a lot of people do this during Titan HM. They use whatever gear they can to raise their item level, have terrible HP, expect a carry, and die to stomps.

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The actual reason for the ilvl gear they pop it on to meet requirements most swap to actual job stat gear once in though

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

The only problem with this would be for tanks that use dps accessories when in the open world to help their dps. While this might help, you really can't save people from themselves, they'll still do something else, and if you eliminate all choice the game gets rather boring.

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Tanks don't just use Melee accessories solo, in any dungeon pre-Haukke (where you get your first tank stance and VIT differences start to matter; note, this does assume the tank is lv50 and knows how to tank properly) going a maxed-STR build is perfectly fine, and can help speed up runs. You can probably use STR accessories all the way to AV, and thanks to all the nerfs its definitely possible to do that in AK (I actually healed AK once using only Eos...yeah, that place got hit HARD). They also are great for OTs in some fights (any HM primal, T5, T7, T8, Prae and CM) and even MTs on bosses where damage is low (Demon Wall, Hali HM first boss, Bray HM second and third bosses, Ruins first and second bosses, etc)

Certain SMN builds (esp Tanking with Titan runs) require VIT accessories, and VIT accessories are also used to meet HP requirements (way back when 3200 hp for Titan HM was a lot for casters/heals, T5 pre-Echo, T9, etc)


Just because some people are not too bright doesn't mean we need to change this.

Dex is dumb for a tank. Everyone should know it.
The healer will thank you for going full vit.

At lvl 50 you pretty much have all the dex you need without statting it.
You could argue statting STR to reach your next parry and block cap but Vit is still more important as it is not a chance but rather a static gain.

Edit:
But no, never str / dex accs for tank unless you wanna help dps. You will loose parry and other useful stats.

While this might not be the same thing, DEX over VIT, at least for a paladin, seems to be like taking crit over det on a whm. While the crit may indeed help from time to time, you're betting on a gamble, but you may not have found yourself needing that crit had your thoroughput just been higher overall. Similarly, while higher DEX reduces the damage you take from time to time, every OTHER unmitigated blow strikes you for a larger percentage of your total health. This makes it harder for your healer to get a read on your rate of death, and kind of flies in the face of the mechanics paladin was built around.

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Originally Posted by pikster

I examined and they were wearing full i100 INT gear, not a point of MND to be found

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AFAIK, A WHM can't equip the i100 caster gear. Outside of accessories, it's almost impossible for him to absolutely 0 MND from gear unless he/she is in nothing but ilevel 1 sets. Even the ilevel 55 and below gear has INT and can be equipped by healer, but it also has MND since sub-50 DoM classes share a lot of the gear.

Even given all this, MND on gear only helps with healing strength to an extent. 75% of healing power comes from the weapon's magic damage. My WHM devoid of all clothing still heals for ~800 with JUST a weapon equipped. If his heals were, in fact doing nothing, then most likely he was using a sub-standard weapon.

Just wanted to correct some misinformation here regarding tanks and strength accessories.

In most cases warrior tanks especially are stacking strength accessories even on endgame content. Why you ask? because you only need enough hp to take the big hit...everything after that is wasted

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Tanks don't just use Melee accessories solo, in any dungeon pre-Haukke (where you get your first tank stance and VIT differences start to matter; note, this does assume the tank is lv50 and knows how to tank properly) going a maxed-STR build is perfectly fine, and can help speed up runs. You can probably use STR accessories all the way to AV, and thanks to all the nerfs its definitely possible to do that in AK (I actually healed AK once using only Eos...yeah, that place got hit HARD). They also are great for OTs in some fights (any HM primal, T5, T7, T8, Prae and CM) and even MTs on bosses where damage is low (Demon Wall, Hali HM first boss, Bray HM second and third bosses, Ruins first and second bosses, etc)

Certain SMN builds (esp Tanking with Titan runs) require VIT accessories, and VIT accessories are also used to meet HP requirements (way back when 3200 hp for Titan HM was a lot for casters/heals, T5 pre-Echo, T9, etc)


Just because some people are not too bright doesn't mean we need to change this.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Just wanted to correct some misinformation here regarding tanks and strength accessories.

In most cases warrior tanks especially are stacking strength accessories even on endgame content. Why you ask? because you only need enough hp to take the big hit...everything after that is wasted

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For my part I was just trying to make the point that there are reasons to not have "tanky" acc on a tank for a tank set and limiting it would be a bad idea with one specific example. I realize that there are many more and more even for some other classes.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I've seen a lot of people do this during Titan HM. They use whatever gear they can to raise their item level, have terrible HP, expect a carry, and die to stomps.

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Had a group in there today LB the heart (rofl) and when I said we didn't need to LB it, they claimed "you're supposed to."

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Just wanted to correct some misinformation here regarding tanks and strength accessories.

In most cases warrior tanks especially are stacking strength accessories even on endgame content. Why you ask? because you only need enough hp to take the big hit...everything after that is wasted

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I stack Strength accessories on everything that I do as my Warrior at the moment, including Brayflox Speed Runs (only usually if I know the Healer).

Even on Turn 6 I use two Weathered Gloam accessories.

If this were to happen, suddenly WAR off-tanking looks a whole lot less fun. Those STR accessories really do come in handy. And on that note, being a MRD in PVP without being able to use STR accessories isn't going to achieve anything.

This is most duty finder groups....

People wanna be different. It's not that they don't know what their primary stats are and that they should be using them. They wanna try to be "unique" and try something different.

In day to day life, that might be a way to be special. But since brayflox and most activities in this game are pretty easy, you can get away with really really poor choices that simply wouldn't fly in life in general and still succeed.

Like: "Hey, I need to hammer this birdhouse together, but I don't have a hammer. Oh look! There is a jelly-filled donut, that should do the trick!"

What if you hammered that nail with that donut and maybe it didn't work very well, but you successfully hammered the nail? You might keep doing it right? Suddenly, every time you needed to hammer a nail, you'd be looking for a donut to do the job because that is your special technique. You might even convince other people to start hammering nails with donuts, causing a whole lot of forum pondering what donut with what filling is best to hammer a penny nail. All the meanwhile, people that actually hammer nails with hammers just stare with a confused look... :P

Are you sure they weren't just using them to raise their ilvl?

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

Had a group in there today LB the heart (rofl) and when I said we didn't need to LB it, they claimed "you're supposed to."

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Back in the day, we used to LB the heart. It wasn't unusual at all - sometimes your dps was -just short- of it, and there was no echo to fall back on and no i90/i100 pieces of armor readily available for a lot of entry-level titan players. Just because we now overgear Titan HM doesn't mean this way was wrong - though I admit, you don't really need to LB the heart there anymore since you'll 9/10 times wind up with overleveled players.

Gear limits to entering should be more specific. There's no reason why the game should allow people in T1 because they put on a pair of crafting glasses to make up the ilvl difference.

I had some genius DRG earlier in T2 with a ridiculous mix of fending and aiming accessories...I assume the aiming was to try and stack crit (because melee accs are short on Crit?) ...the fending helped push them to 6k HP sure...but they still died on ADS before the mages with 4k HP lol Sorry 6k HP isn't going to save you from death by Blood for Blood.

I don't think anything SE implement would cure stupidity. In those situations you just have to accept there's no helping them and find a different group.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

...6k HP isn't going to save you from death by Blood for Blood.

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If in duties with group-wide-unavoidable-aoe, that skill will be automatically renamed "Suicide", I'm pretty sure someone uses it anyway.

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Originally Posted by pikster

Excluding perhaps crafting accs (lolSB), should there be class reqs on this equipment? To help people from themselves...

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So if as a Mage Class, and I were going to be going into Titan Hard Mode for the very first time, and my Hit Point Total were lets say 2800 with my full DPS or full Healer gear.... even with me putting some of my Attribute Points into vitality... with your suggestion I would be unable to temporarily utilize a Vitality Accessory to help boost my hit points because they would all be class locked to Paladins and Warriors. How does this help anyone?

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Originally Posted by Tharian

So if as a Mage Class, and I were going to be going into Titan Hard Mode for the very first time, and my Hit Point Total were lets say 2800 with my full DPS or full Healer gear.... even with me putting some of my Attribute Points into vitality... with your suggestion I would be unable to temporarily utilize a Vitality Accessory to help boost my hit points because they would all be class locked to Paladins and Warriors. How does this help anyone?

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It's not hard to get i60 which will help your HP. You only need 3k HP really

I think if people don't know what their main stat is by level 50 that's not really the game's fault, that's the player.