FC vs. LS -OR- How I learned to Create a Community

Hi everyone,

I wanted to post about my experiences with creating an FC and LS, what the differences and reactions have been, and see what you guys think about the distinction. This will be a long story, but if you take the time to read it, you might find it interesting.

In the beginning...

At the start of 2.0, most of my 1.0 LS had moved elsewhere or didn't play anymore, so I decided to start from scratch with a few friends I had made and family members. FCs were the new thing, so I created one of them. In retrospect, I hadn't put much thought into it beyond, "This is great! I'll be able to invite people I like and everything will just work out!" Such was not the case.

In my experience with FFXI, an LS was a big deal. Even though we didn't take much very seriously, if someone had left the LS, it meant something was wrong. People tended to be committed to an LS for the long run.

Therefore, I expected an FC to simply be the same way. Invite people, they'll be thrilled to join, chat a bit, do some dungeons or whatever and everything will be great. The problem was, people weren't staying. People would leave for next to no reason, quit the game outright early on without a word, and generally wouldn't make the effort to just chat about anything. I was seriously confused, given my previous experience.

I had already had 3 Jobs at lvl50 from 1.0, but for the most part they had completely changed. I ended up taking BRD through the Main Story and side quests because I wanted to have a 4th Job available, and I would get to learn it from the ground up. Along the way, I made some friends, added them to the FC and several actually hung around. Clearing the story, it was time to work on Relic. That's when I hit my first roadblock: Titan HM.

The Goal and the Painful Reality

At this point, I invited people purely on the fact that I liked them, without any large overarching goal. Now I had a goal...and about 3 members that were actually able to get to Titan. And at the time, he was a particularly demanding fight, requiring a lot of coordination. I ended up joining a static group looking for a fill-in, and was amazed at the coordination and teamwork they showed to clear it. That's what I wanted to do.

Problem was, so many other FCs were ahead of the curve: grabbing anyone they could or sticking strictly to family, and would not leave their FC behind. What options did I have left? Abandon my FC and join another? No...I was attached to it. I wanted to feel like a leader and actually do something good. This was when I created a new LS, with the goal of defeating Titan.

I would gather members specifically for that purpose. I would make sure to get everyone involved up to speed, by doing things such as farming Garuda HM for weapons before moving onto Titan. I got my 8 through shout or otherwise, I was ready to go! Since we were mostly from different FCs, I created a forum for us so that we could stay in contact with Event times and such (By the way, I highly recommend proboards. You can do anything that Enjin/Guildworks offers for free if you have a basic understanding of HTML/JavaScript/CSS). I scheduled our first Event, a Garuda HM farming run!

Aaaaanddd...3 people showed up. Late, I might add. This wasn't a good sign. People weren't showing up, or listening or visiting the site at all. So I started recruiting again, and eventually, finally got members that actually stuck around and joined in on completing Garuda.

Those members were the ones who had actually shown real dedication to the group, and, after doing a few more runs, we decided to take on Titan. It took several attempts to really get down the pattern for everyone, but by staying consistent, and showing up when they needed to, we eventually got the win!

We had done it! We had met our goal! Now what?!...

So uh...What do we do now?...

During all of this, what was going on with my FC? No one really used it, or chatted or anything. I had put so much focus on my LS, that I forgot about my FC. And now, we cleared our goal for the LS. Some of the members we cleared Titan with had already had their relics, or were onto BC already (it was still in lockout at this point). So I guess I'm back to square one...

This part is important. Trust me. It is. Get Ready.

The LS had become something I didn't understand. And frankly, neither did anyone else. An LS was just a tool used for chat, right? Your FC is what is most important, after all. But...what if it didn't have to be that way?

I decided that it was time that I ask several of the members from our LS group if there was any interest in forming a BC static. I had wanted to try it, after all. And, sure enough, there was enough interest to start one! We had a mish-mosh of members from several FC's, but we were working together for something that most people do exclusively with an FC.

Other people in the LS started to notice, and same with members of my FC. They were interested now, too. People started joining in from pickups that I had to make, because they liked the non-restrictive nature of the LS. And yet, still being a naive leader, I didn't realize what I had. I had...a conundrum.

LS...FC...What's the difference?

Now, I had an LS, with a well-defined group of people, and an FC with a fairly small amount of people, most of which played very casually. Some people actually had left the FC, simply because they saw no reason to have it. Was it just a house and a bunch of Actions tied to it? The LS was where the action was, why not just stay in that and go elsewhere? So now enters my confusion...what do I want out of my FC?

I was lost and confused. I had listened to several people here, on other forums, asked why people had left, etc. And I kept getting the same answer, "FC comes first, LS second". It made sense...but this wasn't my experience. As a matter of fact, I had almost had the opposite experience.

Here's what I found to be the main differences:

FC

- Actions
- Housing
- Community Board
- Short Messages
- Online/Offline times
- Ranking System
- You can only have 1 at any given time

LS

- Light ranking system (Master, Leader)
- You can have many, and they are FC-independent

At first glance, that's a lot that an FC offers so much more than an LS. And that's awesome. And it makes sense that people would see that as more important. However, I bolded the important factor in both: options. An LS has the ability to gather people from many FCs, even when they get lost in their current FCs goals and numbers. It was almost like...

A Second FC

That is how I run my LS from now on. I decided that the benefits of having an LS, and the variability it offers, is the best way to keep everyone happy. We have some very small FC's involved in the LS, and they love being able to do what they want with their house and FC family while still having us as a reliable go-to for help and event-planning.

The LS site is still up and running, much cleaner, more organized, and busy than ever before, and my FC actually continues to grow. I've used the LS as an incentive to join our FC, as it lets members know immediately, "Hey, we're really close here, but now there are even more people right from the get-go that are willing to help you out." It still hasn't been easy, we have our bumps in the road, but overall, the declaration of our goal to be a Second FC option and ability to organize and follow through with things has led us to become something that is way bigger than just a Chat Tool with rudimentary settings. We are team.

What I would like to see the Developers do from here:

Provide more options for an LS to organize. It was mentioned a long time ago that there would be an FC Alliance option, but it doesn't look like we are getting that anytime soon. This is the closest we have to one, and hell, I would probably keep it going anyway, depending on how limited the Alliance can be.

This would also include the allowance of a LS Message system, similar to FFXI, or what we currently have for our FC when we log on. This would be filterable for people with multiple LS', but it would at least give people like us a way to stay up to date, without fully relying on an external website or something.

Allow LS' to have the Forum Options on the Lodestone. This is a minor change, as I know most people probably don't use that anyway, but it'd be nice to have.

Linkshell Applications similar to what FC's have. This would allow people to look not only at a person's FC and apply, but for an LS that they think would meet what they want, without leaving their current FC.

I know this is a lot to ask, but these tweaks would be very beneficial to someone like me who has an outstanding experience with his LS. If you are someone who doesn't use LS' often, I encourage you to try it out and make something more out of them. If you are someone who already does do something like this, I ask for your support here to show that we really care.

I'm sorry for making this so long, but I really wanted everyone to see the possibilities of an LS over and with an FC. If you made it this far, thank you very much for reading, and I hope to see some responses.

I commend you on the effort of posting a well thought out and coherent suggestion for this game. I also fully support these enhancements for LS's.

Now off to page 2 where all good suggestion fade away to never be seen again!

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Originally Posted by Codek

I commend you on the effort of posting a well thought out and coherent suggestion for this game. I also fully support these enhancements for LS's.

Now off to page 2 where all good suggestion fade away to never be seen again!

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Thank you. Brevity is my strong suit, and my curse. I had a feeling while I was writing this that it would probably happen, but you never know. If nothing else, I can copy/paste this to a blog or something as well.

I run a Linkshell. I made an FC, for the buffs and housing, that all LS members are welcome to join if they want to. All chat is in the LS since there's a bunch of members from other FCs. Since I have no interest in running a 100+ member group, it works perfect for me.

The way I see it, LS and FC are both just toolsets for running a community. I use whatever works.

That's an interesting FC/LS creation story. Thanks for sharing that. ^^ Here's mine:
I made a throw away character on a JP server when NA servers were closed during EA. I'm flat new to this whole thing and jumped at a chance to join a FC when I saw a shout for Harmonium. I got help from FC mates often and really appreciated it. I barely remember the FC creators disappearing into the aether and being replaced by the second FC leader. She was a hoot. We had many silly convos on FC chat and things were lively. Then something went awry. There were 4 or 5 other EN FCs on this server and people started sniping endgame players from each other's FC. There was much backstabbing and bad feels. I was maybe level 35 and was clueless. I had a spontaneous bikini party with the leader and found myself an officer. ^^ THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON I WAS MADE OFFICER. Then free transfer month happened... omg, it was like rats on a sinking ship. Nearly all our endgame players left. People I was 'friends' with didn't even bother to say bye or anything. The FC leader had gone on vacation weeks prior and hadn't returned. I was the only 'officer' left. The leader showed up one day when I wasn't online, asked who should be leader, and ta da... I was voted in.

I racked my brain for ideas. Entire other EN FCs transferred servers. I invited a few stragglers here and there. Hell, I thought of leaving. Then it occurred to me to make an English LS to bring together those FCs left on Atomos. Those who stayed were damn stubborn. We didn't want to combine into one FC though since people had their loyalty. Shortly, I found myself having to review the LS membership often because we hit the 128 cap. ><

We've gone through some low points (and high points) since. Now, Harmonium is one of the bigger FCs on the server. We still use the LS of course but the vast majority of our casual conversation takes place in FC chat. Sometimes it's quiet, sometimes you better learn to speed read. XD

We are held together by not much more than a common language and a serious stubborn streak. :) I see the EN LS as my baby, but HARM as my family. I'm damn lucky to know these people. We do everything from player run silly events to coil to QQ over atma farming and we celebrate each other's victories... no matter how small. :)

I sincerely hope they add FC alliances sometime soon as I hope it will bring the EN FCs on Atomos closer together. I can wish that my allied FCs could make use of our house npc's and stuff. Hell, I'd be happy if they increased the LS member cap to the same as FCs. I don't understand why it's so small in comparison.

eta: The point is that every LS & FC has a different reason for it's existence; a different back story (even if it's as simple as "for pvp")

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Originally Posted by Sadana

-snip-

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Thanks for the post! I actually forgot to mention member size in my OP. I know size would become a issue server-side, but maybe they would be able to allocate some resources to increasing that as well. I have about 40 members, give or take in my FC, and about 70 in my LS :)

I find FC admin to be one of the most fun things in the game, and the most frustrating. xD I see myself as more of a facilitator... what do the members of the FC want to do and how can I make it happen?

eta: It takes a LOT of work. There's no two ways about it. :/ Initiative, communication, flexibility, and perseverance are all necessary!!

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Originally Posted by Sadana

I find FC admin to be one of the most fun things in the game, and the most frustrating. xD I see myself as more of a facilitator... what do the members of the FC want to do and how can I make it happen?

eta: It takes a LOT of work. There's no two ways about it. :/ Initiative, communication, flexibility, and perseverance are all necessary!!

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I totally understand. It gets even more confusing when you try to balance the goals of the FC and LS separately, especially given circumstances like mine. I feel like adding those extra tools, if the Alliance system is not viable yet, would help tide us over and help us stay organized.

Good introspective about LS and FC. . . would be great to have and make good friends from FC, also follow up a topic at LS.
Sometimes, at least in my case, is pretty hard to get to know people in game, the time I'm playing, I'm always doing it with friends and family. . .
I mean, you can get to know others. . . but most of the time I just talk to get help and thats it.

Yep, I found myself focusing on the LS for a while over the FC until someone pointed this out to me privately. ^^; I guess it depends on the purpose of the LS... even though we have a small community, we have LS for pvp, coil, FC leaders, other languages, etc. It helps us have more avenues to really focus on certain aspects of the game or just to vent when needed. XD

I hope some other FC/LS leaders will chime in here and explain how they 'make it work'. :o

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Originally Posted by Devrick

Good introspective about LS and FC. . . would be great to have and make good friends from FC, also follow up a topic at LS.
Sometimes, at least in my case, is pretty hard to get to know people in game, the time I'm playing, I'm always doing it with friends and family. . .
I mean, you can get to know others. . . but most of the time I just talk to get help and thats it.

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If you brought irl friends/family to the game, it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't have much reason to reach out to others. :) I often wonder if my FC is a collection of solo players. :O It's not a bad thing! We chat, ask for help, assist, or do our own thing.. and that's OKAY. :D

As leader, I just try to keep up on who is where in the game and what their playstyle is. I believe it helps to make sure no one gets ignored or left behind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sadana

As leader, I just try to keep up on who is where in the game and what their playstyle is. I believe it helps to make sure no one gets ignored or left behind.

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This is an important distinction to make. With an FC, this is easier to accomplish with Short Messages, but an LS, unless kept track of by some outside source, is very difficult to manage player by player. Forgetting about some members by definition can make your system exclusionary. By allowing us the ability to have some better form of management, it helps us keep track of everything for both an LS and FC.

Also, I thought I should note, that I don't pretend to be a professional on this topic. I know I wrote a lot, but if nothing else, it might have demonstrated how truly idealistic and ignorant I can be. I didn't lead in FFXI, save for a Sky run here and there. I do the best I can, but am always looking for ways to improve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

This is an important distinction to make. With an FC, this is easier to accomplish with Short Messages, but an LS, unless kept track of by some outside source, is very difficult to manage player by player. Forgetting about some members by definition can make your system exclusionary. By allowing us the ability to have some better form of management, it helps us keep track of everything for both an LS and FC.

Also, I thought I should note, that I don't pretend to be a professional on this topic. I know I wrote a lot, but if nothing else, it might have demonstrated how truly idealistic and ignorant I can be. I didn't lead in FFXI, save for a Sky run here and there. I do the best I can, but am always looking for ways to improve.

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Yes, an LS is like an FC without the FC perks. Short messages though... people have to ACTIVELY look at them (and update them). ><' I have better luck using the FC info that displays when people sign in to mention upcoming events and stuff. I really wish we had an in game calendar. We've asked for things like log in notifications be added to linkshells but were told no. :(

I'm always learning and trying to improve. If we don't anymore, it's time to hand the leadership position over to someone new.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...se_linkshells/

Looks like someone on reddit has somewhat discussed this before. Hopefully the devs can see the interest level here and possibly consider some of these changes :)

Just a quick update:

Following the words of someone else on here, name escapes me, I created an LS for the leaders/officers of the FCs in our Ward in Mist. So far, after just about an hour or two of actual recruitment, we amassed 11/30 FCs, not bad at all :). I plan on using this to plan community events within our Ward. Should be fun!

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

Just a quick update:

Following the words of someone else on here, name escapes me, I created an LS for the leaders/officers of the FCs in our Ward in Mist. So far, after just about an hour or two of actual recruitment, we amassed 11/30 FCs, not bad at all :). I plan on using this to plan community events within our Ward. Should be fun!

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That is awesome!! :D