Ninja - What abilities might it borrow from other classes?

Alright, I know it's a little early to jump the gun on what extra abilities ROG/NIN might be able to use, but here's what i'm speculating.

It sounds like ROG/NIN could borrow certain PUG abilities such as Internal Release (and what kind of ROG/NIN would do without that?). THM might be pushing it. Surecast? Perhaps it could take advantage of certain LNC abilities like Blood for Blood, Keen Flurry and Impulse Drive. ARC is probably a bust, since Yoshida clarified ROG/NIN would be a STR class. Bloodbath I could see being shared from MRD, for soloing purposes and emergency situations. Invigorate from GLA could be possible as well.

My situation is this: I just came back from...about a 6-month hiatus. I'm a level 50 DRG, with GLA30, MRD26, PUG16, THM15 and ACH6. Should I go a little further in leveling some of those classes in case I might need one of them later down the road?

Thoughts? Opinions?

We really have no idea what they'll use based on the video released, but since they're not coming for at least 2 patches, I don't think you have to worry too much about having the right cross-class skills just yet.

Heh, I just like to think ahead, I suppose. Wow though, two patches? Gives me plenty of time to catch up.

Thanks for the advice. :)

First off Invigorate is from LNC, haha.

ARC could show promise with Raging and Quelling Strikes.

BRD uses PGL+LNC.
MNK uses LNC+MRD.
DRG uses MRD+PGL.

NIN, following that pattern, could probably end up using MRD+ARC or ARC+PGL being the only two DoW combinations unused. My best guess would say ARC+PGL but it might be ARC+MRD.

So the 3 possible classes I could see NIN using:

ARC:
Raging Strikes: Attack Power +20%.
Quelling Strikes: Reduces enmity of each attack.
Venomous Bite: Damage and DoT (this is cross-classable GLA/MRD/LNC/PGL and currently not usable on jobs which is why I think NIN would get it).
Straight Shot: Damage and Crit Rate +10% (same reason as above).
Hawk's Eye: DEX+15%, ACC+100%.

Reasoning: We see DPS increase, enmity reduction, critical hit rate increase, accuracy increase. These are pretty standard things for a NIN. The DEX wouldn't likely do anything for it (unless it affects crit rate at all) except for soloing but would be a nice tie-in for DEX usually being a NIN trait. We also see a poison which would make sense for a NIN and is already cross-classable just not for any current jobs.

PGL:
Featherfoot: Evasion +15%.
Secondwind: 400 potency cure based on attack power.
Internal Release: Crit Rate +10%.
Haymaker: Reactionary attack, slow+20%.
Mantra: Increases HP recovered by 10% AoE.

Reasoning: We see a bit of a DPS increase and some survivability (which all melee DPS have in some way). The evasion boost is the key here as it is very NIN-like.

MRD:
Foresight: Defense +20%.
Skullsunder: 100potency attack.
Bloodbath: Converts 25% of your next attack to HP.
Mercy Stroke: Off GCD 200 potency attack used on mobs under 20% HP and restores your HP if it kills the mob.
Fracture: Damage and DoT.

Reasoning: The other melee DPS use it. It offers tools for survivability, a DoT and an strong off-GCD attack.

Just for your information

DPS class (which Rouge and Ninja are DPS) and they clearly melee class as well

Its pretty safe to assume they will take: Lancer, Pugilist, Marauder, Archer and Thaumaturge (since they show potential to use Magic so Swiftcast might kick in)

This may help you decide easier which classes you want to max 50

I feel as though they may cross class skills with MNK and DRG. And DRG and MNK may very well lose MRD skills and get NIN skills if they are more valuable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SE

Able to manipulate the vital energies of the land, the air, and living beings, they manifest their power through the weaving of signs, unleashing a wide array of attacks against their foes. Master the arts of the ninja and learn to bend the tide of battle to your will.

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Sounds like one of the classes, at the very least, will be Arcanist (Signs sound a lot like the geometric maths they use) or, more likely, Conjurer (Stone, Aero, and 'Living Beings' are there hat).

As for the melee class they will almost certainly get their stuff from, Pugilist makes sense. But then again, Summoners and Black mages get Archer moves. So who knows?

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Originally Posted by Houston009

I feel as though they may cross class skills with MNK and DRG. And DRG and MNK may very well lose MRD skills and get NIN skills if they are more valuable.

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I was thinking that, too. However then I thought "What about when they add even more classes in the expansion and perhaps more later on?" We'd end up seeing constant changes to what jobs can use what class actions. I think that would be a lot of re-balancing work. Not to mention a lot of work for wiki's having to stay updated and people having to level new classes for their jobs. Also all the time they put in leveling say PGL for Mantra on BRD would be thrown out if they give BRD MSK+LNC (or a new 3rd DEX based class) abilities for instance.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

Sounds like one of the classes, at the very least, will be Arcanist (Signs sound a lot like the geometric maths they use) or, more likely, Conjurer (Stone, Aero, and 'Living Beings' are there hat).

As for the melee class they will almost certainly get their stuff from, Pugilist makes sense. But then again, Summoners and Black mages get Archer moves. So who knows?

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I'd sooner say ACN over CNJ. ACN's two carbuncles are air and earth based and living beings. However, I can't see what good abilities they would get. They'll be wearing STR gear so all their magical attacks wouldn't do anything for them. They'd get Ruin, Physick, Eye for an Eye and Virus. Nothing really useful for a STR based class. I'm almost scared to think about them turning NIN into a pet based class and getting Summons 1 and 2... but that quote does sound viable. :(

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I'd sooner say ACN over CNJ. ACN's two carbuncles are air and earth based and living beings. However, I can't see what good abilities they would get. They'll be wearing STR gear so all their magical attacks wouldn't do anything for them. They'd get Ruin, Physick, Eye for an Eye and Virus. Nothing really useful for a STR based class. I'm almost scared to think about them turning NIN into a pet based class and getting Summons 1 and 2... but that quote does sound viable. :(

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From what we've seen from the Ninja video, the only magic things they do are explosions. I doubt they'd get pets, and any spells they do have will most likely still be strength based somehow.

Alternatively, maybe the magical attacks wont have their damage be based on stats at all, but on weapon damage, combined with some sort of enemy factor (Positioning, or some sort of stacking mechanism?).

It's an interesting notion.

EDIT: Though, honestly, no matter what, I see the Ninja kind of getting the shaft on this when it comes to cross class abilities. Not as bad as Paladins, but still, not great.

Most likely, it'll be Pugilist and Lancer. That gives you the four really big cross-class abilities for melee DPS: Invigorate, Blood for Blood, Second Wind, and Internal Release. Marauder could possibly be one, as Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke are fairly nice in the hands of a DPS, but not as nice as those four.

I don't see Archer happening, as SE seems to want Raging Strikes and Quelling Strikes kept to ranged DPS and casters (which is fine, as they don't really have any DPS cooldowns on their own). I REALLY don't see Conjurer, Thaumaturge, Arcanist, or Gladiator happening; none of them give you anything that would in any reasonable way benefit your job as a melee DPS. Gladiator gives you tanking cooldowns, which you don't need. Conjurer gives you healing spells, which you don't need. Thaumaturge gives you Surecast and Swiftcast, okay, but if any of the Mudra actually have a cast-time, the ninjutsu better hit like a train, because that's a LOT of DPS you lose by casting them (and Blizzard II is just useless to everyone). Arcanist gives you a mixed bag of stuff, but still, it's useless for you as a melee DPS.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

I feel as though they may cross class skills with MNK and DRG. And DRG and MNK may very well lose MRD skills and get NIN skills if they are more valuable.

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Essentially this. The most likely thing to happen is NIN will receive cross-class abilities from the Pugilist and Lancer, while the DRG and MNK drop Marauder from their list of available cross-class abilities and receive Rogue's in exchange.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I was thinking that, too. However then I thought "What about when they add even more classes in the expansion and perhaps more later on?" We'd end up seeing constant changes to what jobs can use what class actions. I think that would be a lot of re-balancing work. Not to mention a lot of work for wiki's having to stay updated and people having to level new classes for their jobs. Also all the time they put in leveling say PGL for Mantra on BRD would be thrown out if they give BRD MSK+LNC (or a new 3rd DEX based class) abilities for instance.

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Perhaps they should approach a new way for us to customize our Job.
Right now everyone is pretty much the same without any variety, the right approach would be to add other classes as possible cross classes from which we can choose 2.
So a Ninja for example would be able to choose two of the following: Archer, Pugilist, Lancer, Black mage?
Likewise Ninja could be added as possible cross class for other DPS so a Dragoon for example could decide to drop MRD and go for NIN instead but also choose to stick with MRD.

If it doesn't get LNC, it better get its own Invigorate or not need it, or it'll just be "that melee without invigorate".

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

If it doesn't get LNC, it better get its own Invigorate or not need it, or it'll just be "that melee without invigorate".

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They have a passive TP regeneration skill, no one knows how strong it is though.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

They have a passive TP regeneration skill, no one knows how strong it is though.

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We don't know that for certain. Yes, there are some development abilities currently in the game files, but whether or not they'll actually be present on the class is something we have no way of knowing right now. Better to error on the side of caution.

And even if they did have a stronger passive TP regeneration (which couldn't be more powerful than say Army's Paeon, because that would be incredibly OP), Invigorate is still a boat-load of TP instantly, plus you get Blood for Blood.

I think they will also use mp for a fair share of their ninjutsu, so they might not even be as reliant on tp to begin with as other DoW.

Hmm...as far as Gladiator goes, I would see at least Invigorate being somewhat useful, just in case of TP shortages. I tend to get a few of those for long boss fights, or when I'm sprinting around the dungeon to catch up with the party, should some calamity happen. And for Archer, I'm thinking Hawk Eye might be something to consider.

Never really considered Arcanist though. I doubt that might have anything for NIN, despite the lore hinting at it. The Ninjutsu might be perhaps some kind of sequence to cast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FenreyVarnell

.... Invigorate from GLA could be possible as well.


Thoughts? Opinions?

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http://37.media.tumblr.com/273ac9009...8u3vo1_500.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FenreyVarnell

Hmm...as far as Gladiator goes, I would see at least Invigorate being somewhat useful

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Lol, I corrected you on the first page that Invigorate is a Lancer move xD. You should know this, LNC is your main!

If we follow the same pattern Rogue/Ninja should have access to some cross class skills. (My bet is PUG & ARC :) )

But that means normally some rogue skills would be able to be cross classed. If this is the case then some classes/jobs will have an additional class to choose skills from.

I am stretching a bit but to be fair then all classes/jobs should have access to some additional cross class skills. So more than one class added? :)

Just having fun, don't know how ROG/NIN will be released,not a single skill cross classed? only access through a quest? after one class lvl 50?(makes sense if you have to do through the maelstrom story wise)

I think there are two routes they could take it.

LNC/Pugilist. This gives them Ninja style attacks and follows the traditional melee route of having Invigorate to sustain longer fights. Second Wind etc.

ARC/MRD - These sub skills would mean that the NIN doesn't really depend on subskills for damage, similar to BLM. Raging strikes can timed for a series of heavy attacks but isnt really something used often.

I believe in ARC/MRD for some reason I feel that the NIN is going to be a DRG combined with a BLM. Good ability damage and Ninjitsu which will be casted

I'll only name the skills I think would be worthy of slotting from the two (ARCHER and PUGILIST) that seem the most likely. Taking into account that there is supposedly a TP regen skill inherent to Ninja's meaning ...it won't need Lancer.

Archer:

Venemous Bite makes sense with the Ninja using Poisons.
Quelling Strikes suits a Stealth classed designed to avoid enmity.
Raging Strikes for the most powerful Ninjutsu.
Straight Shot for a good crit boost.
Hawks Eye mostly for the ACC boost and if Ninjas do decide to use dex...emphasis on if, then this would be a very nice cross class skill indeed.

Pugilist:

Featherfoot = Evade = Stealth Class!
Second Wind as the oh shit heal.
Internal Release, stacking with Straight Shot will mean the NIN can optimize their gear with Skill Speed probably :) (and not worry about crit as much!)