Am I the only one who feels that the vertical progression needs to slow down?

Relic weapons appeal to almost everyone, which to me, is the game's downfall. I feel since the zodiac questline started - all I do is grind fates/ roulettes / dailies, etc. In 2.1 - I had time to attempt extreme primals or BCB, but now I feel compelled to work towards my animous / novus. As a casual, I feel that the zodiac weapons are a trap. There is a certain appeal to a weapon that will be available for likely years to come that you feel like you're falling behind or doing something wrong if you're not actively working towards upgrading it. Now I find myself not having time to try to conqueror BCB, extreme primals, play other games, etc.

How come extreme primals, BCBs, the upcoming brutal BCB, etc. can't also drop atma, alexandrite (heck - maybe even books)? How many people really have the time to work towards a novus while also trying to conqueror BCB? Yet both are kind of put on a pedestal as achievements we should all be working towards.

Maybe I'm in the minority - but I feel like the game is moving too fast now. Anyone else feel the same way? I'd like to play other games as well - but it's gotten to the point where if I'm not daily grinding away in FFXIV - I feel like i'm falling way behind. It wasn't like this during 2.0 or 2.1.

I guess my point would be - if you're good enough to beat T9 and get an item level 115 weapon - shouldn't your progress towards that also help earn you an animous / novus along the way? Who really has time to do both? It would provide incentive to do more than simply grind roulettes / brayfox which can be completed with your eyes closed.

Why slow things down? I like the fact that the Relic weapons will be unique. I hope that one day the final forms will be so difficult to obtain that only 10-15% of the player population will ever obtain them.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Why slow things down? I like the fact that the Relic weapons will be unique. I hope that one day the final forms will be so difficult to obtain that only 10-15% of the player population will ever obtain them.

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I don't disagree that they should be rare. But as a player - shouldn't being able to tackle T9 help you earn an animous / novus along the way? I guess what i'm saying - I feel like a player should be able to aspire towards both goals (beat the most challenging content / possess a zodiac weapon). The point is - 99% of the game's population wouldn't have the time to do both. And even those who do - do they really like the grind? When does it become a chore that you wish you could also enjoy other great games that are regularly released?

Basically - I don't like that the game is essentially making you pick one path (I use the word "making" because 99% won't have time to do both). I feel that there is just simply too much to do and there is no reason someone who can tackle T9 isn't also deserving of a zodiac weapon (something that has the capability to be around for the entire lifespan of the game).

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Why slow things down? I like the fact that the Relic weapons will be unique. I hope that one day the final forms will be so difficult to obtain that only 10-15% of the player population will ever obtain them.

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That's just it though, they're not difficult at all, simply a time sink. If only 10-15% end up with the final version, it wont be because it was difficult. It will be because they died of old age before it was done...

There has to be vertical progression for the endgame crowd. You're trying to play as a hardcore when you're a casual. (Yes I know that grinding isn't hard but the time investment) I think they are putting in some side content with chocobo breeding etc, but the only one responsible for feeling you need to grind is you. However I have seen playerbases drastically shrink and fall apart when there is no grind to work for and no vertical progression.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

There has to be vertical progression for the endgame crowd. You're trying to play as a hardcore when you're a casual. (Yes I know that grinding isn't hard but the time investment) I think they are putting in some side content with chocobo breeding etc, but the only one responsible for feeling you need to grind is you. However I have seen playerbases drastically shrink and fall apart when there is no grind to work for and no vertical progression.

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Basically I feel that there should be the grind option for the zodiac and then there should be the skill option for the zodiac. Zodiac weapons are appealing to everyone. I dont' feel that the average player should only be able to pick one path.

Loyalty rewards could fix that. If SE gave you 1 zodiac or whatever weapon per 6 months, you'd SLOWLY reach having all you want.

If coil gave the best gear and progress on relic then all you would need to do is coil for everything. No need to do other content

6 months for 20 more item levels?

That's fast for you?

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Originally Posted by Lumidus

If coil gave the best gear and progress on relic then all you would need to do is coil for everything. No need to do other content

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Not necessarily. If there was a lockout on alexandrite per week - then you could do roulettes / etc. for the rest of the week.

Yeah they aren't hard to get, just a big pain. I am finally on my 9th book of atma for my first weapon, which will probably be the only weapon I do. I really don't have plans on grinding out novus and alexandrites, if it happen while doing a roulette or an odd fate here and there great, but not going to invest more time in it as I want to do more in game then grind for a weapon.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Basically I feel that there should be the grind option for the zodiac and then there should be the skill option for the zodiac. Zodiac weapons are appealing to everyone. I dont' feel that the average player should only be able to pick one path.

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The "skill option" is Rowena's weapon or Second Coil drop

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

I don't disagree that they should be rare. But as a player - shouldn't being able to tackle T9 help you earn an animous / novus along the way? I guess what i'm saying - I feel like a player should be able to aspire towards both goals (beat the most challenging content / possess a zodiac weapon). The point is - 99% of the game's population wouldn't have the time to do both. And even those who do - do they really like the grind? When does it become a chore that you wish you could also enjoy other great games that are regularly released?

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It depends on what purpose the items have. If, for example, Relic weapons continue to be a relatively all-accessible weapon that isn't exactly exclusive to hard core raiders, then it's pretty obvious what its intended purpose is as a weapon and status symbol. It's not a raiders status symbol nor intended to be one. Whereas, currently with coil weapons, you know what they're for. They're endgame weapons that also carry a certain implication that you raid endgame content. Why couldn't they just add these goods to the loot pool? Well... overloading the loot pool is generally not considered a good thing.

People tend to overlook the fact that they're playing an MMORPG. A lot of folks didn't play this genre of game prior to it becoming mainstream, so they didn't really get an opportunity understand what makes the genre popular first-hand. The "chore" you talk about is part of the genre. You put in effort, regardless of the lack of fun it may be for you personally, to reap your rewards. I don't look at grinds like Atma negatively, for example, but others do. Am I wrong to look at it in a way that others don't? Am I wrong to understand why the grind aspect is a necessary part of the MMORPG genre? In fact, I don't even need to include the "MMO" portion of it, as traditional style RPGs in general typically have a grind to it. I understand that you're getting at about it being something you want, but then you have to consider the intent that I mentioned initially.

Hi, Masamune. I know what you mean. I felt like that at first. Then I realized that I had to make some sacrifices. I think time management is very important in MMOs and in real life.

First, let me start off by saying that I don't know what's important to you in FFXIV and that matters. I myself am a completionist, I want my main character geared, all my crafting/gathering jobs geared, even alt DoW/DoM jobs geared if I can. I want every achievement, every minion, every mount. I want to do PvP, level my companion, finish my sightseeing log and more. This, for me, makes FFXIV a really great game. I don't log in for 2 hours a week, finish everything and get bored. I enjoy all the game has to offer. That being said, doing EVERYTHING is as time consuming as it gets. So I'll just share the rule that I use to help minimize the amount of time I need to play:

Do everything in the most time efficient manner.

This sounds obvious but it's not the way most people play. For example, I'm not trying to get Novus as fast as possible. I'm ONLY farming Alexandrite via Daily Roulette: Expert. I do this every day without fail. It takes anywhere from 15 min to 45 min depending on the dungeon and the group plus you also cap soldiery if you do only this every day. So let's say after 75 days I get a Novus, I will have spent about 37 hours on farming Alexandrite. Contrast that to someone who farms myth or Fates to have Novus RIGHT NOW. They'll spend anywhere from 150 hours to 300 hours to get a Novus. They might get it faster but it takes them more game hours.

Applying this rule to the other things I want to do, I would not level another job via Fates, just do your daily roulette, especially guildhest (most exp for time spent), I would not let leves or supply/provisioning missions go to waste, etc. What ends up happening is that I make really good progress on EVERYTHING I want to do for the amount of time I put in, only I'm always a little bit behind others on specific things. That's the sacrifice I make, but I don't think it's a big one. I get to do and enjoy everything at my own pace.

Now if you're the kind of player who is looking to have a single job really, really well-geared, in the shortest amount of time, you'd need a different strategy. I'd leave out relic. It's fun and casual and you wind up w/ a (currently) i110 weapon, but it is not the most time efficient way to achieve the goal of being geared in the least amount of time. Yes, it will keep getting better which may make it seem like a necessity, but it looks like other content will remain a step ahead of it as new patches are released. Right now, it's the T9 weapon (if someone has a Novus), after 2.4 it'll probably be the next tier of Allagan weapons. So I don't think you should feel you NEED the weapon to progress with any content.

Going back to my goals, I'm currently NOT working on 2nd Coil and that's the sacrifice that I make, but I really don't mind. I'll tackle it eventually when there is nothing else to do.

I've said this in another thread, and it's purely just an opinion. I think the relic weapon isn't for the coil crowd. That's why relic is always like 3rd place in ilevel, because the majority of that casual crowd has no intention of going into coil (except maybe for a story carry once). Otherwise, they'd simply upgrade to BiS an leave relic in the dust, as it should always be.

I know this doesn't represent EVERYONE, and some people are collectors and stuff. I'm just generalizing.

You can make a lot of progress in the second coil with an i90 weapon and solid gear, not sure of its doable through T9 without putting needless pressure on the group, but it should be doable in its entirety with an i95 weapon (again, with solid gear). I do agree, it does come down to a choice when you're playtime is limited, but if you enjoy raiding and challenging content, maybe prioritize that over your relic. You won't be seeing many high allagan weapons for a while too, so you'll still be working towards meaningful gear, and you'll also get to experience more content.

Don't view the zodiac weapons as a trap. They're more or less unnecessary for a lot of content right now, and is something you should work towards acquiring at your own pace. If you want to play other games, by all means go for it. Just because you pay a monthly subscription doesn't mean you can only play final fantasy until you've consumed all of its current content before moving on to something else.

Just think, item level progression took 2 patches to be raised last time, and at that point, most everyone had their relic zenith, some had multiple, and philosophy tomes had little value, causing the economy to fall. What we have now is a long term set of goals that players don't necessarily need to achieve right away, but can still work towards over time. We are only now hitting our first content patch since the item level cap has been raised, and even if you don't acquire your novus weapon until after the next cap has been raised, you can be sure that it will be useable to clear a good portion of that content before you have to consider your next upgrade.

In the end, yes, zodiac weapons are a time sink, but one that you should not let come between you and your enjoyment of the game (or other games).

Personally they just need to add something in between.

To bad Dungeons, Primals, CT, and Coil aren't released together.

Admittedly, this is my first MMO since the four or five years I spent playing Ragnarok Online back in Middle School and High School, and that one year I spent playing WoW, but something just strikes me as inherently 'off' when I see my character being level 50 and wearing level 90+ gear. I'm all for getting better gear, don't get me wrong, but I do kinda wish gear progression in this game was much more horizontal with some vertical as rewards for time-invested or skill (such as Coil gear and completing each step of the Relic quest). But, what with the fast-paced nature of leveling and how content just pancakes at 50 compared to every other level (not in difficulty, but in amount), I can see why there's so much vertical progression.

It certainly worries me that when we get our first max-level increase in the game everyone's going to be running around in something crazy, like i150 gear, but there's really nothing that can be done about it at this point.