Patch 1.18 Lancer's "Twisting Vice"

Does anybody know how much TP it removes?

In the past, Twisting Vice was able to interrupt an enemy's TP move before it could be used.

Now? It's worthless!

They nerfed Twisting Vice way too much. The lancer's raison d'etere has been destroyed with this nerf, and now there is very little purpose to the Lancer in terms of TP suppression. In fact, if they had kept the strength of Twisting Vice intact, it would have given parties more of a chance against the Doomvoid endboss in Dzemael Darkhold.

Honestly...this makes me a sad kitty.

Nerf bat!!! >.<

Twisting Vice No longer reduces a target's TP to 0

Restore Twisting Vice's TP-to-zero ability, but increase the recast time. Problem fukkin' solved!

Increase recast time = just add more lancer to chain Vice.

I'm also sad they nerfed it, but at the same time, it was pretty borken. If they want to make fights more strategic, they had to remove the way players could just prevent bosses to launch any TP move at all.


We'll have to rely more on leg sweep to stun. Have archers use Heavy Shot when appropriate, etc.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

In the past, Twisting Vice was able to interrupt an enemy's TP move before it could be used.

Now? It's worthless!

They nerfed Twisting Vice way too much. The lancer's raison d'etere has been destroyed with this nerf, and now there is very little purpose to the Lancer in terms of TP suppression. In fact, if they had kept the strength of Twisting Vice intact, it would have given parties more of a chance against the Doomvoid endboss in Dzemael Darkhold.

Honestly...this makes me a sad kitty.

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its not worthless, it can still be used to interrupt TP attacks, though down to zero was very nice it was OP as hell.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

its not worthless, it can still be used to interrupt TP attacks, though down to zero was very nice it was OP as hell.

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I agree, I saw Twisting Vice getting dinged long before the patch. It makes sense, it was an OP ability. We still have Speed Surge FTW. But yea, Lancer with the changes has become a very viable top DD contender.

I just want to know how much it takes off to see if it is worth while...not share opinions guys :mad:

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Originally Posted by MiNuN

I just want to know how much it takes off to see if it is worth while...not share opinions guys :mad:

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God forbid opinions be expressed on an open, online forum.... The blasphemy!

And the patch hasn't even been fully accessible for 24 hours, give people some time to set up some parse results and drill some information from the game. People don't instantly know these things the moment the patch hits. In fact, I doubt this little tidbit of information will be known for a while short of a dev post, which is very unlikely.

I thought what they would do is make twisting vice lnc specific. it was definitely broken when used on my arc. i could vice from miles away. what i think they should do is make vice lancer only reimplememnt the 0 tp and increase the cast time like SilvertearRen said.

Twisting vice(new) + moonriseII--> twisting vice (old) in terms of tp suppression...

I m disapponted form the nerf that my lnc receive...but this "solution" work very well.

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Originally Posted by MrCale

I thought what they would do is make twisting vice lnc specific. it was definitely broken when used on my arc. i could vice from miles away. what i think they should do is make vice lancer only reimplememnt the 0 tp and increase the cast time like SilvertearRen said.

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I think SE's deal with the whole thing is they don't want you snubbing each and every boss of TP moves. They want them to be part of the mechanic & challenge, so Twisting Vice had to go, and I can see why they would do that.

I love this change. is good. but nevertheless will be annoyed in the future.. same routine i did every time.. Moonrise II > Twisting Vice > Moonrise II > Twisting Vice.. urghh.

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Originally Posted by MiNuN

I just want to know how much it takes off to see if it is worth while...not share opinions guys :mad:

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You are asking the impossible, since we cant see the mobs TP gauge. In fact until there is PvP there is no way to tell.

i still think twisting vice is ok.
i don't really know the amount it reduces, but after fighting the NM buffalo just 2 days ago i could still stop any of it's TP moves if i used TV when the buffalo started a TP move.
twisting vice doesn't seem broken or too nerfed to me, should still be equipped in the action bar, sure is one of the most effective skills.

nope is does not, but not knowing how much it does kind of frustrated me for a moment and i paranoid not doing it every single time it reach availablelity including Moonrise II :<

maybe i'll experiment with it xD

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Originally Posted by MiNuN

I just want to know how much it takes off to see if it is worth while...not share opinions guys :mad:

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With out a way to check the mobs tp its impossible to tell exactly how much it takes off.

There is a way you could test it. I'll do my best to explain.

Fire off Invigorate II then let a mob melee on you until it fires twisting vice fires.
Say 5 hits, that's 200 TP per hit.
Next time wait 4 hits, use Vice, then count how many more melee shots you take before the mob uses a TP move.
Say it takes 3 hits after using Vice. This would mean you dropped him from 800 to 400, as 3 hits = 600 TP (based on its' previous use) roughly gained by the mob.

In essence, you dropped the mob's TP by 400.

Do this a few times on the same mob, then again on a couple different mobs. This should get you a rough estimate of TV's potency.

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

There is a way you could test it. I'll do my best to explain.

Fire off Invigorate II then let a mob melee on you until it fires twisting vice fires.
Say 5 hits, that's 200 TP per hit.
Next time wait 4 hits, use Vice, then count how many more melee shots you take before the mob uses a TP move.
Say it takes 3 hits after using Vice. This would mean you dropped him from 800 to 400, as 3 hits = 600 TP (based on its' previous use) roughly gained by the mob.

In essence, you dropped the mob's TP by 400.

Do this a few times on the same mob, then again on a couple different mobs. This should get you a rough estimate of TV's potency.

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Assuming mobs share TP generation, which isn't the case.

Different mobs do not, but the same mobs would have similar attack patterns and thus similar TP generation rates. Perhaps you are right though, and none share similarities, even among the same rank mobs of the same family.

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Originally Posted by Belial

I think SE's deal with the whole thing is they don't want you snubbing each and every boss of TP moves. They want them to be part of the mechanic & challenge, so Twisting Vice had to go, and I can see why they would do that.

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They can put an increasing resistance to twisting vice on NMs just like they did with alot of spells in ffxi, but i guess its way too much trouble... i just miss using vice on hounds, that alone was worth it.

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

Different mobs do not, but the same mobs would have similar attack patterns and thus similar TP generation rates. Perhaps you are right though, and none share similarities, even among the same rank mobs of the same family.

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I'm not 100% sure but I don't think mobs always use TP moves as soon as they reach the required amount.

In any case, I think Twisting Vice could still be too good. I'm pretty sure four lancers could keep almost any monster below 1k TP indefinitely with the current version of it and Moonrise II.

it removes 1k tp. You can go to Coerthas to 16,23 there are some r50+ lancers there that use it. that why i know. i went there to check it out after it got changed. still with 2 lancers in PT a mob doesnt stand a chance to use a WS. cooldown is only 10 sec.