So infinite arrows/ammunition...

Was just wondering. I KNOW Yoshi-P said he didn't want any job to be item-based (like archers were before ARR using limited arrows) BUT why not make arrows an offhand item? They can still be infinite, but just something to put in the offhand? I mean I suppose using the bows only makes things easier and convenient but it doesn't make much sense, and most fighting classes will have their offhand empty. Why not put arrows there? And for gun classes, bullets? They can still be infinite but just take up that almost always empty offhand slot...

What would be the point of such a thing?

Unless you want the projectile type to affect damage.

The point would be to fill up the almost useless offhand slot...only gladiators andlow level thaumaturge/conjurers have a need for it...would make sense to add more. Plus would be cool to have different arrow animations. They could probably nerf the bow by 1/3 of its stats and put that on arrow.

There really isn't a point. It just would make more sense at the expense of convenience.

Is there a maintenance today? I cant log in to my account. Im in world exodus btw, plz help

I would like to see the off hand slot used more...

Pet Jobs could effectively have equipment for their pet there.
Bard could have instruments.
Samurai better have a damned Bow there.
etc. etc.

They wouldn't have to work the same way Paladin does with Sword/Shield splitting stats, they could just provide alternative stats. A Harp for Bard could boost songs, for example.

No maintenance lol

The problem with adding a "arrow" or "quiver" offhand is no matter what stats or "additonal effects" they put on them, eventually one or two of them will be deemed "The Best" and be overpriced and the rest will be Market Board Floatsam. on top of that, Why add more gear bloat when they could just as easily tack any of these things on to new bows, and not have to try and balance classes around a main hand and off hand that isn't needed....Also "Stat Sticks" suck.

I had been thinking about that as well. It would be nice to be able to choose the look of bow and separatedly the look of quiver and arrows. I have some bows of which I like the weapon, and others of which I like just the quiver. Even as an infinite tool, having arrows be separated from bow (much like shield for paladins) would allow for specific arrows to be used, maybe with different stats or detrimental effects. It would be nice to craft them, as non-stackable items (since they are infinite, why buy more than one of the same type?).

what would they do? The shield that Gladiator's/Paladin's, Thaumaturges/Black Mages, and Conjurers/White Mages can use has a primary effect of increasing Block Strength and Rate. Without a Shield there is absolutely no possibility to block an attack. So again, what would they do? I doubt it would make sense in any way to have them increase the damage potential that an Archer/Bard is capable of dishing out, otherwise the Archer/Bard would potentially out DPS the other DPS classes, at least unless the weapons that the Bard already has access to somehow got nerfed when the ammunition was introduced? So that raises the question of what effect these ammunition slots could potentially have that we as Bards do not already have access to. And if they are an infinite use item, instead of a consumable item, then that raises the question of will there be a Relic Ammunition?

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

The problem with adding a "arrow" or "quiver" offhand is no matter what stats or "additonal effects" they put on them, eventually one or two of them will be deemed "The Best" and be overpriced and the rest will be Market Board Floatsam. on top of that, Why add more gear bloat when they could just as easily tack any of these things on to new bows, and not have to try and balance classes around a main hand and off hand that isn't needed....Also "Stat Sticks" suck.

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If like the OP proposes, and the ammunition item is an infinite use item much like a shield currently is. Then this point of view, that one will be deemed the "Best" and thus will be over-priced, is a non-starter argument. The reason I say this is because they would be handled the exact same way as Shields currently are. With one Ammunition being the Relic Ammunition, and another being the item level 115 ammunition dropped in Coil. It just wouldn't make sense for them to do it the way you are suggesting and have them all be purchasable on the market board if they are planning on making them infinite use.

Of course this entire line of arguing assumes there are even plans to make an ammunition slot item.

They would have to rejig ALL the bows in the game as well as redo BRD's entire relic quest to include an arrow item. It isn't likely to happen. And of course other two handers will be asking for offhands too...

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Originally Posted by Tharian

If like the OP proposes, and the ammunition item is an infinite use item much like a shield currently is. Then this point of view, that one will be deemed the "Best" and thus will be over-priced, is a non-starter argument. The reason I say this is because they would be handled the exact same way as Shields currently are. With one Ammunition being the Relic Ammunition, and another being the item level 115 ammunition dropped in Coil. It just wouldn't make sense for them to do it the way you are suggesting and have them all be purchasable on the market board if they are planning on making them infinite use.

Of course this entire line of arguing assumes there are even plans to make an ammunition slot item.

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Basically you covered most of my miss-givings about adding them in the intial part of your post, I added the "Market Board Floatsam" and overpricing as there will inevitably be ones that could be crafted as stepping stones to the one they would add to Coil/Primals/Relic etc. Otherwise it begs the question of "Why Bother?" if they could just as easily add any new "additional effects" to newer weapons and save themselves the headache of trying to balance a Main Hand Weapon and Off hand stat stick, just for the sake of "filling a slot". Basically I could get behind the idea ofadding them for vanities sake, but adding them for stat bonus sake, will result in nothing but headaches.

This "Could" be a great idea actually. But only if equipping offhand arrows gave unique effects. These arrows wouldn't actually be used up, or modify attacks or the bow in any way, but are equipped in the slot to customize your Bard (like how all jobs should be able to)

Examples:
*Increases effectiveness of Mages Ballad
*Increases effectiveness of Foe Requiem
*Each auto-attack returns 10 MP
*Converts 20 VIT to 20 PIE
*Reduces cooldown of Battle Voice by 30 seconds

Now all of these are pretty significant and depending on the encounter one could be preferred over others, this would give the player a meaningful decision on what to use. I'm of the opinion all classes need something like this to go with a players specific playstyle, but I dream of that day.

Darxer none of those idea's is likely to happen. Or hadn't you noticed... none of the gear in this game gives additional effects on par with the additional effects of certain gear in Final Fantasy XI (yes Kraken Club, I am looking at you)

I definitely think that, if they do start adding in special effects for weapons beyond base stats, having special arrows that could be switched on the fly. But instead of making arrows that are stat-dependent, make them situational so that most arrows are useful, even in the endgame, depending on the situation. +5% damage when moving/standing still, +5% Accuracy buff vs. Dragons, Demons struck with weapon attacks lose 5% Evasion, etc.

Just... stuff that isn't universally good.

For a thousand economic reasons we do not need consumable ammunition in this game. The topic was discussed to death in beta and it doesn't need to be resurrected NOW. Thanks, but no thanks.

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Originally Posted by RakaMaimhov

For a thousand economic reasons we do not need consumable ammunition in this game. The topic was discussed to death in beta and it doesn't need to be resurrected NOW. Thanks, but no thanks.

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read the thread next time. We are not discussing consumable ammunition. Rather we are discussing static pieces of gear that fill the off-hand slot in the same way that a shield fills the off-hand slot. The only thing resembling consumable ammunition in this discussion is that the static piece of gear in question would be called "Bullet" or "Arrow" and nothing else.

I don't know about special effects on arrows or stats at all for that matter. What I would like though is the option to glamor just the quiver and not the bow as well.

LOL Please no... dont start with this like in FFXI or FFXIV 1.0 where we had to carry stacks of each kind of arrows and such >.<. Horrible days.

Nah. I can see people now: "You're not using x-type of arrow/bullet?! VOTEKICK NUB!"

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

LOL Please no... dont start with this like in FFXI or FFXIV 1.0 where we had to carry stacks of each kind of arrows and such >.<. Horrible days.

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God, this thread is only 2 pages long and only has 20 posts. Why aren't people reading the entire thing?

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Originally Posted by Tharian

I doubt it would make sense in any way to have them increase the damage potential that an Archer/Bard is capable of dishing out, otherwise the Archer/Bard would potentially out DPS the other DPS classes, at least unless the weapons that the Bard already has access to somehow got nerfed when the ammunition was introduced?

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First of all in both single target and AOE damage, bard is at the bottom and isn't even near any class (except better than monk in AOE). Second... Do you even bard? Look at your weapon and look at any of the other weapons. They are already 6-7 points behind every other weapon in weapon damage. This was a remnant of a nerf from 1.0 that they never bothered to restore.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Second... Do you even bard?

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Yes. I am an Item Level 86 Bard. I may not be the highest Item Level in the game, but I am level 50 and have sufficient gear to do the beginnings of end game content. And Bard is my main.

Also, the part about AoE in your post is incorrect. both Monk and Dragoon suffer from what is known as "Melee-based AoE" meaning they have to be right up next to at least one of their targets in order to hit anything with an AoE attack.

Summoner is very limited in it's available AoE's. Either they are too weak to do much of anything (Tridisaster). They are on a long cooldown (Enkindle). Or the enemies have to be bunched up all nice and close nit together (Bane). Their only other AoE has a ground based targeting reticle that is really only big enough to fit a handful of enemies.

I am unsure about Black Mage as I haven't really played it. Bard on the other hand has 2 wide-angle 25 yard(?) AoE's that are both on a 2.5 second cooldown. Meaning they can be spammed like nobodies business. Bard also has access to Army's Paeon, which means that Bard can basically spam their AoE's until the entire clump of enemies is dead and the Bard is ready to move onto the next enemy. No other class can really do that except possibly Black Mage if it manages it's MP well.

6-7 points less damage doesn't matter in the long run if I can make my TP outlast comparably geared Dragoons or Monks. I will still be doing more damage in the long run than a Dragoon that is on 0 TP.

Lol at people who didn't read my OP. anyways I actually like the idea of having a harp better than arrows on offhand lol.

problem with having and off-hand that gives you stats is that they would need to nerf your main hand weapon (to keep the same stats ratio as today) or give every other DD job with a 2-hander weapon also an off-hand to not cause imbalance

They could maybe make quivers for mob super-families(like wavekin or beastmen) that give a teeny bonus to damage when hitting the correct targets, perhaps 2%.