Why is this game such a chore...

I love this game, I really do. It has a beautiful art style and its Final Fantasy which is good enough reason for me to play it. However I am getting really annoyed at two things that seem to be consistent in the game.

- The Staggering Difficulty Spike and The Length of certain tasks - This really shows that Square Enix are dragging their heels a bit here. The length to do the simplest tasks is annoying and not really that fun. The overall difficulty of the game is more like it was designed for Japanese audiences who never really do anything else but play this game. However there is virtually no real support in the game for more casual players.

- The lag of AoE's on boss fights - I dunno why this is happening as I NEVER had this problem in WoW. There is some lag between skillshots which means even if you move out of it, you will still get hit. This is EXCEPTIONALLY annoying on Boss fights, why is this happening in the first place?

There's difficulty spikes? Fooled me.

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Originally Posted by Anorex

There's difficulty spikes? Fooled me.

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I mean just in terms of expecting high levels of reaction time. I wouldn't advise this game to players who are dyspraxic and have coordination difficulties.

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Originally Posted by Anorex

There's difficulty spikes? Fooled me.

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one shot mechanics which stops you for the time you master them (difficulty), and then become trivial when you master them, rendering the fight boring and easy as hell (here's your spike)

No fight remains difficult no matter how many times you beat it (provided you aren't solo and have a dedicated group, ofc)

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I don't experience AoE lag.

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And ? Lots of people do experience AoE lags (hopefully I don't. The other tank in my FC does though).

People should stop with the "I never experienced it so it must be wrong"

I don't experience AoE lag.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I don't experience AoE lag.

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You might not but many people do, its more of mild latency issues but it is enough to get you killed in things like weight of the land, landslides, etc. I play on a NA server using on a not-so-great ISP connection in Japan run by an American company (military), and some days I'll have great speeds/latency and can dodge like a pro... other days, I cant get out of an aoe to save my life. It has nothing to do with my play style since on my screen I'll be on the edge of the arena but a weight of the land in the center somehow kills me even though I obviously ran out of it and am miles away :P

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

The overall difficulty of the game is more like it was designed for Japanese audiences who never really do anything else but play this game. However there is virtually no real support in the game for more casual players.

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Given both the Japanese school system (Hello, Jukus!) and the (IMHO inhumane) working hours on a typical "salaryman" job in Japan, I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea Japanese people can dedicate more time to a single video/computer game than "Westeners" can.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

I mean just in terms of expecting high levels of reaction time. I wouldn't advise this game to players who are dyspraxic and have coordination difficulties.

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I'd hate to see you play other MMO's. In terms if reaction time and speed this game is incredibly slow.

The game is to hard for you?
Really now? Apart from Titan EX and Turn 5 everything I encountered till now is easy. Only made harder by people trying their best to annoy others.

If you mean certain stuff needs lots of time to finish, that says nothing about difficulty, that is just good old grinding.


So this game is aimed at Japanese players, well who would have thought that a Japanese company from Japan would aim their Japanese games at Japanese people. Japanese people can dedicate about as much time as we can dedicate into games. As much time as they are able to.
It kinda looks bad to say "Japanese do nothing but playing games" Hello, this is an MMORPG. It is a designed timesink.

If you are unable and/or unwilling to dedicate time into an MMORPG you never will get as far as with any other game.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

- The Staggering Difficulty Spike and The Length of certain tasks - This really shows that Square Enix are dragging their heels a bit here. The length to do the simplest tasks is annoying and not really that fun. The overall difficulty of the game is more like it was designed for Japanese audiences who never really do anything else but play this game. However there is virtually no real support in the game for more casual players.

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If this would be more of a "true" Final Fantasy and for the Japanese Audience, most people would not be able to get past the first Job-Quests.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

The overall difficulty of the game is more like it was designed for Japanese audiences who never really do anything else but play this game. However there is virtually no real support in the game for more casual players.

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Then why was WoW made easier for the Asian market, because Japanese people (in your case) play 24/7? Get you facts straight and don't blame an entire race because you disagree with something (with a very poor argument I might add).

Lag can be an issue, there is a nice post on these forums explaining why this lags. Maybe it will help you, can't seem to find the thread this quickly.

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Originally Posted by Nero

If this would be more of a "true" Final Fantasy and for the Japanese Audience, most people would not be able to get past the first Job-Quests.

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Korean style grinding :p

Without joking, I wouldn't mind FF2's grinding in a MMO... but maybe that's just me

(for those who might not know it, in FF2 you had to grind your stats and skills. ie, if you wanted more HP/defense, you had to take a lot of hits, be them friendly or enemy. For more damage, hit more, etc etc...)

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Then why was WoW made easier for the Asian market, because Japanese people (in your case) play 24/7? Get you facts straight and don't blame an entire country because you disagree with something (with a very poor argument I might add).

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fixed it for you

I agree there is some weird latency with the AoE effects. I'll be completely on the other side of the room, thinking I dodged the attack and it still somehow hits me. Once or twice, yea that's just me not looking quickly enough. I could see that.. but it's REALLY consistent here and I never had this issue in other games even on really hard raiding content. There's something else going on here than just a percentage of the playerbase sucks at dodging.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

fixed it for you

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Thnx a bunch

This game is a joke in difficulty compared to FFXI. This is super casual. Idk how seasoned you are as a gamer but if THIS game is too much work/difficult for you then there\\'s no hope lol.

No lag here. Game is great. What were you expecting from an MMO? They are designed to be major time sinks. The minimal amount of time it takes to get things done in this and seeing people complain everything takes too long or is too hard is laughable.

The only thing I can agree on is the occasional bout of latency. But that issue is described thoroughly in at least one other thread in the General forums alone.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I don't experience AoE lag.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

You might not but many people do, its more of mild latency issues but it is enough to get you killed in things like weight of the land, landslides, etc. I play on a NA server using on a not-so-great ISP connection in Japan run by an American company (military), and some days I'll have great speeds/latency and can dodge like a pro... other days, I cant get out of an aoe to save my life. It has nothing to do with my play style since on my screen I'll be on the edge of the arena but a weight of the land in the center somehow kills me even though I obviously ran out of it and am miles away :P

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Well there is the problem I would imagine. Not really the game's fault that you're stuck with a patchy internet service.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Korean style grinding :p

Without joking, I wouldn't mind FF2's grinding in a MMO... but maybe that's just me

(for those who might not know it, in FF2 you had to grind your stats and skills. ie, if you wanted more HP/defense, you had to take a lot of hits, be them friendly or enemy. For more damage, hit more, etc etc...)

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*Cough*FFXI*Cough*

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Originally Posted by Duranu

*Cough*FFXI*Cough*

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From what I know, besides the farming, FFXI's levelling has nothing in common with FFII's levelling

LOL @ game being a chore. go back to wow. there's nothing laborious about this game. Had you played something like EQ or even early eq2, maybe Aion or another Korean MMO, you'd truly know what "a chore" it was to do something in an MMO. this game... no.

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Originally Posted by Luinne

LOL @ game being a chore. go back to wow. there's nothing laborious about this game. Had you played something like EQ or even early eq2, maybe Aion or another Korean MMO, you'd truly know what "a chore" it was to do something in an MMO. this game... no.

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Not sidding with either side here, but you sound really angry.

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Originally Posted by Anorex

There's difficulty spikes? Fooled me.

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not everyone is a pro at team jump rope like yourself

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Well there is the problem I would imagine. Not really the game's fault that you're stuck with a patchy internet service.

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When the game has their hand out for money from people from the southern hemishpere, and have no servers anywhere near them, then yes, it's the game's fault. Latency is dictated by distance from server. (lag/rubber-banding, etc is typically due to packet loss and distance has little affect)

No-one is expecting a full rewrite so checks are made client-side - but there has to be other options they should consider, like adjusting the cast times presented to the client taking pings into consideration. Or just add the extra .5 second people need in those situations and be done with it.

A game is a chore when you treat it as such.

It feels like a chore because they want you to repeat and rinse in the tens of thousands. It's a grinder game to the enth degree.It doesn't really matter what you are doing, leveling a craft, farming fleece, clearing a dungeon. You do it over and over and over and over and over and then log out knowing you will be doing it for weeks and months on end, depending how often you play.

As for the kill shot boss mechanics, it's a rip off from Tomb Raider games. Jump Lara up on to a ledge next, next, a sequence of fail until you become a living macro or just make a macro and say screw it.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

It feels like a chore because they want you to repeat and rinse in the tens of thousands. It's a grinder game to the enth degree.It doesn't really matter what you are doing, leveling a craft, farming fleece, clearing a dungeon. You do it over and over and over and over and over and then log out knowing you will be doing it for weeks and months on end, depending how often you play.

As for the kill shot boss mechanics, it's a rip off from Tomb Raider games. Jump Lara up on to a ledge next, next, a sequence of fail until you become a living macro or just make a macro and say screw it.

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What's your Titan ex kill macro?

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Originally Posted by stupiddog

Given both the Japanese school system (Hello, Jukus!) and the (IMHO inhumane) working hours on a typical "salaryman" job in Japan, I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea Japanese people can dedicate more time to a single video/computer game than "Westeners" can.

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You mean Japanese players aren't all NEETs who live at home with their parents and play games all day? ANIME HAS LIED TO ME!

It's exceedingly difficult for me to dodge anything due to latency. I started noticing right around, I don't know, Titan HM.

It's really demoralizing to be the target of frustration from your peers. After a while, you can say, "LAG!" until you're blue in the face- But your mates will just start to think you are a burden.

BCoB is an absolute nightmare for me, so I don't do it. In Titan HM, if I at least reacted within half a second I would make it. BCoB turn 2 and beyond? Absolutely no hope of dodging. I'm serious. Unless I try to anticipate, but that's hard to do when you have to stand still to cast.

I don't mean to complain, and I'm sorry, but I wanted to back up the OP. You're not alone.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

When the game has their hand out for money from people from the southern hemishpere, and have no servers anywhere near them, then yes, it's the game's fault. Latency is dictated by distance from server. (lag/rubber-banding, etc is typically due to packet loss and distance has little affect)

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The poster I replied to plays on a NA server which is located in NA yet they are playing from JP using a poor quality ISP. You propose that SE implement changes that affect the majority to satisfy the minority? Do you even realize how ridiculous that sounds? That's like me complaining that the game is too hard if I was playing on a patchy 3G connection. It's not the game that is at fault it's that the player is ill-equipped to play it at 100% effectiveness, albeit through no fault of their own.

I can picture a racing driver crying "waaahwaaahwahh make the other drivers slower because my car can't drive as fast!". No. It doesn't work like that. You either have to accept you are an also-ran until you join a better team, or else stop racing.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

The overall difficulty of the game is more like it was designed for Japanese audiences who never really do anything else but play this game. However there is virtually no real support in the game for more casual players.

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Ok. That's it I'm literally speechless!
How on earth could this game even BE more streamlined to cater to casuals?
Forget that I asked I really don't even want to know. This is honestly the last game I expected someone to say something like the quote. You can faceroll through all of the story, autocraft to 50 while drinking coffee at home and not even close to the screen. The game actually plays itself at times and you want it to be dumbed down for you? Maybe you just don't like playing games at all?

Yeah we don't want this to go the same way as WoW, where whatever challenges it once offered, now do not really exist. People whine about stuff being a chore, then low and behold they end up in a situation where they're now offering instant level 90s. All of a sudden, the game has completely lost the spirit of what it once was, to the point where it's not even an MMORPG and barely even a game any more because people can skip 90% of the content. That game is now an MMOEG (massively multiplayer online end game). In fact it wasn't even sudden. Whiners pn their forums have been chipping away at Blizzard for years, and they've cracked every time. Now any vision Blizzard may have had for the gameback in 2004 is intact no longer.

Perhaps naively, I'd like to think that Yoshi P and his team have a vision of what they want this game to be, and I want to believe that 10 or so years down the line that vision remains. It's their game, not ours. We just happen to play the game.

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

This game is a joke in difficulty compared to FFXI. This is super casual. Idk how seasoned you are as a gamer but if THIS game is too much work/difficult for you then there\\'s no hope lol.

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Other question: if you like much work/difficult why you are playing this game and dont go back to FFXI?
I am just bringing up this question because when you argue like this you have to reconsider your own choise and think twice before talking.
Following your argument, YOU are "now" no longer hardcore, but become super casual yourself...

It's ok to like new games/content by the way. It does not mean however, that we should have it handed to us on a plate. This game has the right balance between casual and hardcore already as it is IMO. Unfortunately many people seem to confuse "time consuming" with "hard". MMORPGs are not supposed to be the sort of thing where you can do everything in a few weeks. They are intended to be a long term investment in time and commitment, and anyone who can not see this is deluding themselves.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Unfortunately many people seem to confuse "time consuming" with "hard". MMORPGs are not supposed to be the sort of thing where you can do everything in a few weeks. They are intended to be a long term investment in time and commitment, and anyone who can not see this is deluding themselves.

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Investment. I think there is a huge difference between a game like EQ where you play for a long time building your AAs for your character, and also raid for gear or do a very long quest for items that will last you a while versus this game- where the "investment" is a massive grind for rewards that make minimal difference and will be obsolete in a month or two.

There isn't much return on large "investment" in this game- everything is throwaway. You have to have a more complex and interesting game to justify investment.

Well in the case of the continuing relic quest for example, it is not throwaway - the return is that it is an upgrade-able weapon. But Yoshi P even warned people that it is completely optional and requires long term commitment to keep on top of, so really there is no excuse for people complaining that they have to jump through hoops to get it.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Well in the case of the continuing relic quest for example, it is not throwaway - the return is that it is an upgrade-able weapon. But Yoshi P even warned people that it is completely optional and requires long term commitment to keep on top of, so really there is no excuse for people complaining that they have to jump through hoops to get it.

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Yet, for the time investment you don't get the best current weapon and for any but the most aggressive players the task will extend into content that makes it obsolete.

At least with the EQ epics, they were wonderful during their time and still VERY good for some time after. Prayer shawl, too. You could replace them if you were in bleeding edge content, but most players (even some raiders) kept them a long time.

There is no AA system here to make general playing feel productive or to advance your character post 50.
There is no reason you can't simply unsub and then jump back in after the next release and skip the pointless grind.

But for many people it isnt pointless though. I know people who are happy to continue with the relic quest because not only do they enjoy the grind, they also know that they are perhaps unable to obtain any better. The situation you described in EQ is still very much present in this game too for may people.

I for one am enjoying the grind to get all classes up to 50. But I am under no illusion. The relics are probably the best I am likely to get, save for 1 or two classes, simply because I can not physically put the time in to gear them all to the same level. So my option is to do the relics instead. My option, because as Yoshi P said, it is optional - for as long a I stay subbed I have as long as I need to do it, which could be 2 years for all I care. It does not matter to me because I am not racing anybody to the top of anywhere.

I will start my saying that I really like this game, and was a LONG TIME player of EQ1.

The biggest difference I notice between the two games is not that its "too easy" to get gear in FFXIV, its that there aren't enough gear-slots. In EQ, the raids and dungeons are SIGNIFICANTLY easier from a skill point-of-view. Even the raid content in the harder expansions was more dependent on your tank having enough AC and HP to take a max swing from Overlord Mata Muram than any sort of skill by the players. But in EQ you had, 2 earrings, 2 rings, 2 wrists, arms, hands, chest, legs, boots, shoulders, belt, neck, face, head, back, primary/secondary weapon, ranged, and later on you had charms and powersources. That's about 21/22 slots of armor, compared to FFXIV's 11/12.

Armor was just as hard if not a little harder to get in EQ, so you really did NOT have a homogenization of gear that you see in FFXIV - you kind of took the gear you could get. If you raided for 3 months, the chances that you would be fully raid geared would be pretty slim, and you would have had to quest or group for your other slots, depending on how much time you wanted to spend and what you wanted to pursue.

I'm currently digging FFXIV right now because I have much less time to play than I did when I was really into EQ, and it allows me to have competitive gear nonetheless. However, after doing nearly 170 FATEs without seeing a single Atma drop, I feel that my chance to get an Atma/Animus/Novus weapon is passed, and I will need to make do with other things in the interim. I'm a little bummed because I did all the Epic 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5 (was guild first for some of them!) in EQ, but I'm getting very unlucky and don't really have a good shot at obtaining any of the new relics while they are relevant.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

You propose that SE implement changes that affect the majority to satisfy the minority?

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Everyone playing should be afforded the EXACT SAME reaction time, regardless of their location. At the moment, this isn't the case.

Frankly, I cannot see how such considerations would even affect the "majority" who happen to have decent ping times. If anything, it would enhance their experience - if one person in the party is at a disadvantage through no fault of their own, the entire party suffers in the end - and it's unnecessary.