Background:
There's been a lot of discussions around raids and the difficulty of content, casual playing and how difficult it is to find a good static. I also do have a static on my FC and we run raids daily, so I'm not saying this because I can't get a group. I'm saying this because (but no only) of our inability to help new end-game members.
Idea
One thing I think it would help a lot would be to have an easier version of a raid, where we could practice without the weekly lockout and on duty finder. Mobs should be basically the same but with less mechanics, like T6 without the vines, or T7 without cyclops and shrieks and maybe reward some Broken High Allagan gear ilvl95 for example.
Reasoning
This would allow FCs to train new members for the statics and allow casual / mainstream players to tackle these fights and get a sense of the battle without the frustration of getting your static and having to spend a lot of time to do it. This would also ease the entrance on new content.
And I also disagree with putting super important story behind the hardest content. A lot of people just want to see it, and putting the story on this easier raid mode would be a nice move.
Example
So let's say, Third Coil of Bahamut comes out.
Reward is Mega Allagan gear, ilvl 120.
Weekly lockout and all.
Another version should also be released, Training Third Coil of Bahamut.
Reward would be a Broken Mega Allagan gear, with lesser potency. ilvl 115
No weekly lockout, and on duty finder.
Bosses would be easier and have the same core mechanics, but be stripped of 1 or 2 secondary mechanics.
Players would train on the training ground, get familiar with the fights while getting some gear and progressing through the story.
Then tackle the real challenge, get the best loot of all and the achievements. However, being locked out, they could help other members on the training one, instead of logging out for the week.
As it stands, people without a proper static are unable to progress whatsoever on each patch.
So tell me what do you guys think. Would it be useful or just not worth it?
Training Raids
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06-05-2014, 12:10 AMSirEdeonXTraining Raids
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06-05-2014, 12:14 AMFelis
Maybe as an Golden Saucer skirmish mini game?
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06-05-2014, 12:32 AMTiggyI had a similar thread thing to come up with some ideas once before and didn't even think of this. Good idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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06-05-2014, 12:50 AMSirEdeonXThat would actually be kind of funQuote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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06-05-2014, 12:52 AMF3rd1nand
It's a good idea, I hope they consider and work on it or something similar. :)
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06-05-2014, 12:54 AMNalien
The gear seems overkill... Also probably makes Crystal Tower completely redundant; Crystal Tower was meant for the "I can't do Coil" crowd, but if there is an easy Coil with better gear? Yeah, that's broken.
They just need to add some new endgame level Guildhests to the game, those could actually be pretty good for training. Not against the same bosses as Coil, obviously, but ones with similar mechanics so that people can get used to them.
Actually, if it's about training, couldn't you just not win? Did they change the lockout for Coil 2 so that you get locked out after entering rather than winning or something? If you clear there is still an issue of course, but that just brings us back to a suggestion that's been around since release day; give Coil a loot lock out rather than an entry lockout. Almost exactly the same as Crystal Tower; you can enter to help others, but you cannot loot if you've already cleared. -
06-05-2014, 12:55 AMLunavi
I would say keep the difficulty and make it drop loot from the raidtier below. I do not say this to be elitistic, but there is a reasoning behind the weekly lockout and that is not to do so that only a few get bragging rights, but to control gearflow. I really want SE to fix that so we can both farm high end and it still not being downed in a week because of gear overflow, but yeah I think most people hate farming >_<
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06-05-2014, 01:35 AMEdeline
Vines in T6 is a big factor of the fight mechanic that could lead to a few kills if not handled properly. Removing these to practice won't make you any better in the real fight.
For your suggestion to work, they should be the same dungeon mechanics, without rewards and without cooldown. Purely for practicing. I could already see people ditching Turn1~5 and normal 6~9 just going for that broken itl95 gear lol. -
06-05-2014, 01:54 AMFoo01
The training sim that would work would be a full sim with 7 other perfect players. Since the battle is scripted the 7 other players can also be scripted. The behavior should be similar to that of the class quests. Obviously, there should be no rewards. So the whole thing should run just like real dungeon with 7 NPCs doing what they should be doing. So all that needs to be done is access to the simulation hall via aetheryte crystal or something.
Obvious if SE can script 7 NPC, then SE can clearly script 6 or less and players can get practice together in preparation for doing the real thing, and difficulty gets harder as more real players are added into the mix and less perfect NPC to help. -
06-05-2014, 02:10 AMAlrikRouge
I like this idea as well. There could be some additional factors/elements put into play:
- everything about the fight is the exact same, except the hits and damage you receive (unless they are suppose to be an insta-wipe like enrage) would be 50% or less.
- no loot
- the "training dungeons" come out after 4-6 weeks of the original release
- zero (0) restrictions on how many times you can run them -
06-05-2014, 02:20 AMjulliz
i would much rather have them introduce "training raids" in guildhests with exp and gil rewards. if they can start utilizing 8-man guildhests which begin to introduce basic raid mechanics for current raid content (as it did for basic party content) then it would possibly get more people to do them as well as create a larger library of them. and since guildhests are not locked content, you can do them a number of times with your group.
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06-05-2014, 04:24 AMWelsper59This would work in the days of old. Training raids today, in general, I'd say the majority of people don't have the patience or resolve to do them. Be it a feeling of inferiority or a feeling that it's a waste of time. In both cases, they would rather tough it out to prove they can learn something difficult, regardless of if they're successful or not. IMO that's a good resolve to have, to want to tough it out until you can win, but it usually doesn't work out that way after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by julliz
Basically, if it's for an endgame related purpose, people would rather tough out the actual content because there's that sought-after end reward. Some groups would take advantage of such a guildhest if it were available, but not many... -
06-05-2014, 05:05 AMSirEdeonXUnfortunately Crystal Tower is already broken. The rewards are kind of useless. So I guess CT would need to be as good and challenging as coil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
You always got locked out after entering. Which means that if I beat t6 and entered t7, I cannot help anyone on t6. And I get that, because SE didn't want FCs selling runs. Same reason coil can't have a loot lock out, because FCs would just run it til the drop they want dropped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
Yeah maybe having the exact same mechanics would work. Or just be a bit more forgiving. As for that broken ilvl 95 gear, the training grounds could and should have the same requirements as the raid itself. So you'd need t5 to access it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edeline
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06-05-2014, 06:41 AMkukurumei
No i think the problem is resource management.
If you have time to make a training raid, that is not going to real raid.
Content is content is content. It's logic at its finest. If you're going to make content, make it worthwhile, because otherwise, you're wasting resources. -
06-05-2014, 07:46 AMSapphic
Or train them on the real deal :)
And Turn 6 without the vines would be as usefull as training for t7 without the shrieks XD