Def: Agency or affiliate of a governing exchange (such as a stock exchange) which, as a counter-party to every transaction on that exchange, is responsible for guaranteeing, reconciling, settling, collecting, and clearing, on all trades.
Proposal:
Place a limit of 1M/day on ALL moogle mail transactions for a character, and implement a clearing process for any amount over and/or larger then 1M.
Procedure:
<1M gets instance clearance.
Activities larger then 1M passes thru clearing (flagged for SE review)
<5M gets on hold for 24 hrs.
Each additional 5M gets on hold for an additional 24 hrs, with a max of 72 hours for the whole transaction.
Issue:
RMTs in SE all uses the moogle mail system to do their transactions. Since the system currently has no block to prevent illegal gil buying, we have not seen any reduction in TELL spams by bots, as whatever approach SE comes up with, they just modify their bots and pop up again.
If SE implement a clearing house, then we can catch the problem at the root. Currently there is an 1m limit in place for in-person trading, we need to implement an approval system for moogle-mail trading. It will deter RMTs since their transaction is no longer instant and are being flagged requiring approval.
Cases:
1. Player A send 1M gils to player B, mail gets delivered instantly.
2. Player C,D,E sends 6M gils to player B, player B gets 1M, 5M @ 24 hrs.
3. Player X,Y,Z sends 12M to player B, player B gets 1M, 5M @ 24 hrs (6M), 5M @ 48 hrs (11M), 1M @ 72 hrs (12M).
4. Player C,D sends 25M to player B, player B gets 1M, 5M @ 24 hrs, 5M @ 48 hrs, 14M @ 72 hrs.
(NOTE: Gil amount is based on TOTAL transaction, not per transaction)
Discussion:
Players will not be able to trans large sum of gils instantly, and are required to wait for up to 72 hrs. However, since 1M is considered a fairly decent amount, we should be talking about a very small amount of transactions per day, and a very unlikely transaction for a legit player. Therefore, this kind of holding period should not effect the majority of the players. However, the benefit this will add into the game, is gives SE the ability to screen out the illegal transactions, before any of them can even take place. This will allow SE to confiscate the illagel gils, and banned any associated accounts once a trace is established.
Can this work and stop the RMTs? Nothing is 100%, but 99% is better then 10%. This approach is being used by banks, and stock trading, therefore, it can work in SE.
tl;dr: Flag ALL transactions over 1M/day per character for SE review, and place gil over 1M on hold for up to 72 hrs.
jc
RMT Stopper - Transaction Clearing
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06-01-2014, 02:59 AMAttacKatRMT Stopper - Transaction Clearing
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06-01-2014, 03:05 AMKerberon
I'm honestly surprised that they just haven't made everything btcoa and gotten rid of the market board. There was a FinCen in the US ruling that went into effect in March that stated that companies that administrate virtual currencies that are traded for real money must comply with banking regulations to prevent money laundering. Since SE from my understanding would be effected by this even though they only control half the process I'm surprised they haven't eliminated their liability by just binding everything to character on acquire.
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06-01-2014, 03:18 AMloldrg
This feels like more inconveniencing of regular players in attempt to catch RMT via scorched earth tactics.
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06-01-2014, 03:22 AMAttacKatFinCen regulation FIN-2013-G001 (pdf)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerberon
Per regulation, any online game with "currency" is considered an administrator
Quote:
"An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency."
If this was implemented back in Alpha, it wouldn't have inconvenienced me once, but it would have allow the economy to growth at a more healthy rate, and benefit majority of the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by loldrg
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06-01-2014, 03:25 AMKerberonDon't get me wrong, I don't want everything to go btcoa, but because of regulations that are in place I'm surprised it hasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by loldrg
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06-01-2014, 04:10 AMLeonBlade
Have you ever tried to transfer over 1M gil per day yourself? First off, if you have a legitimate suggestion for this you should probably contact SE for it, secondly this wouldn't solve anything, and they will find other ways to transfer money like they always have.
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06-01-2014, 05:05 AMAttacKatAnd I need to do that because? Don't forget, we are talking about giving away gils here, not legit transactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonBlade
As for legit transactions we have:
1. Market board - yeah, people bitch and moan about the fees, but what was the last time you got a totally free checking account?
2. P-2-P - The limit is 1M, but there is no limit on how many times.
3. You really DO give away over 1M gil per day? What server are you on? I am transferring over. LOL
jc -
06-01-2014, 06:46 AMloldrgDue to the way the market board functions, you can just take the hit from the fees but transfer the gil via a transaction by selling something like a bone chip or femur for 5M or w/e the amount of gil that was bought. RMT buy it, you get your gil. Fixing this flaw in the market board and making it more like FFXI or WoW's AH would solve this huge loophole RMT use on top of fixing one of the primary flaws in this game's economy from being able to know you can undercut rampantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
Also, there are people who legitimately transfer 1M or more a day via the in game mail. It certainly is a hindrance to us. And again like the limit on how much you can trade, it is a measure that hurts average players more than those engaged in RMT, because they'll just find a work around (i.e. the old face to face trading or market board shenanigans I described) for any system you propose. -
06-01-2014, 08:14 AMHeroSamson
You want to stop RMT
Like I said start charging people 1000 gil each time they send a tell, once they hit level 50 then they won't get charged anymore for tells, same goes for shouts 1k for shouts till you are level 50.
I bet you anything they wont spam you anymore.
If they don't have 1k they wont be able to shout or tell. -
06-02-2014, 05:51 AMmeJojoOr, you know, a 1 minute restriction.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroSamson
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06-02-2014, 06:29 AMRadkat
Come on guys, be serious about it. Suggestions like these won't work. Stop assuming the RMT are robots or idiots. Even if this was implemented, it would not put a dent on the RMT. They will just switch to different methods - face to face transactions, or using the marketboard - get the buyer of 10 million gil to put up a fire shard for 10 million gil so they gilsellers pay for it. There are so many other ways than moogle mail.
So be serious about it. We all know there is only one true way to get rid of RMT, which has been proven in JP servers - if there are no gilbuyers, then the gilsellers will cease to exist. Target the gilbuyers, the root of the RMT problem. -
06-02-2014, 09:26 AMTonyACT
They need to make it easier to report and ignore. I should be able to right click a name in chat and choose 'Report", which would then:
1) Add them to a special Ignore list for me - which clears itself out every month or so
2) Logs their chat at the time I reported them and sends it to whoever keeps an eye out for such people so they can verify they were being naughty and take appropriate action.
Having to send in a report every time and manage my Ignore lists manually just takes way too long given the huge number of people spamming me with sales tells. Honestly, I know other games have had issues, but this one has one of the worst problems at the moment and no number of 'actions taken this month' posts is making it any better. -
06-02-2014, 11:07 AMYurihyuga
no offence but this would just annoy the regular player while RMT would just trade face to face. Most of them make a FC and use the vault as a bank anyway so this suggestion is useless.
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06-02-2014, 11:12 AMAttacKat
You solve problems one step at a time, having this in place is better then having nothing at all. If FC is the next problem, then at least we tackle this one and remove this issue, and move on to the next problem area.
Heck, this whole transaction clearing can be apply to all the Gil exchange functions in game. RMTs sells their gils based on speedy service, lets slow them down then.
What has SE done on the JP servers that they haven't on the English servers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Radkat
jc -
06-02-2014, 11:16 AMYurihyugaI would rather have nothing at all if it gets in the way of a regular player.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
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06-02-2014, 11:36 AMPixiNo thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
SE has already shown their inability to effectively deal with RMT without catching legitimate players in the net in FFXI.
I had a mule I used to keep money on in FFXI (so that I wouldn't accidentally or impulsively spend it all), usually keeping 100k or less on my character. After they started banning innocent people, I was absolutely terrified to exchange any money with my mule, lest it flag it as *suspicious* (the mule never got past level 10 or so). It wasn't until after Abyssea had come out that I finally felt comfortable to take money from that account, and that is ridiculous. Players should not have to fear getting hammered for legitimate exchanges. -
06-02-2014, 12:26 PMOoshimaI think the real reason why we don't get RMT tells in JP server is because the RMTs doesn't speak Japanese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radkat
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06-02-2014, 01:33 PMAttacKatSeriously, how often do you perform gil trades that values over 1M outside of the market board? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Hardly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurihyuga
jc -
06-02-2014, 02:29 PMKewitt
What is it that you need gil for in this game as such amounts that you would need RMT services.
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06-02-2014, 04:17 PMChiramu
The way to get around the proposal in the OP is to do smaller transactions. So they should flag an account sending multiple lots of gil in posts, like lots of 10k, 20k etc; and suspend the transaction while SE gets the chance to review it and possibly have a little chat with the people involved.
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06-02-2014, 04:56 PMShneibeland then they will place character in town and use /s every where ! why punish player ?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroSamson
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06-02-2014, 08:19 PMAttacKatWhat you suggest is already in place in the OP. The 1M is TOTAL trans, not per trans. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
Oh, I don't know, full meld of AF gears for 4 classes, where the materia costs 100-200K each? Full gear for iL90, where each piece costs 250-350k? Too lazy to **play** the game, and wants instant result, EG: buying end-game HD/EX carries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewitt
jc