THM Screwed on AoE removeal ???

Mostly A prediscussion via patchnotes information.
I am reading the patchnotes as I am downloading the patch and I see this :



•Thaumaturge

Action Adjustment
Phantom Dart 10 second recast timer implemented
Scourge Potency increased
MP cost raised from 11 to 22
Scourge II Potency increased
MP cost raised from 22 to 44
Banish Potency increased
MP cost raised from 11 to 22
Banish II Potency increased
MP cost raised from 22 to 44
Sacrifice Effects only a single target
MP cost raised from 10 to 35
Sacrifice II Effects only a single target
MP cost raised from 18 to 68
Sacrifice III Effects only a single target
MP cost raised from 32 to 120
Siphon MP
Siphon MP II Effects only a single target
Drain Potency increased
MP cost raised from 30 to 60
Drain II Potency increased
MP cost raised from 45 to 90
Siphon TP Effects only a single target
Siphon amount reduced
Resurrect Obtainable rank lowered from 38 to 14
Recast timer raised from 60 to 300 seconds
MP cost raised from 0 to 101
Emulate Effect duration lowered from 60 to 30 seconds
Shadowsear Damage dealt now determined by player's magic attack rating
Elemental aspect changed from none to umbral
MP cost raised from 88 to 176
Silhouette 30 second recast timer implemented
Shadowfall 30 second recast timer implemented


SO now alot of abilities like sacrafice I-III are all single target and cost more MP yet we have a lesser chance to gain MP back as well..........WOW what a nerf............

rez timer went up 5 fold.

Emulate got the nerf that everyone saw comming .

I knew we would take a hit, but this is ridiculos.

Sounds pretty balanced to me. I'm not going to make any judgments till I try out the new battle system though.

Thank goodness I leveled both mage classes!

Yeah I was working on CON myself since I recently hit 50 on THM, but seems the reigns got pulled back too far on THM and CON got alot of a buff. I Fear there is going to be a lack of balance the other direction now.

Basically wantedto discuss it on the forums, if nothing else but to eat time while I dowload the patch.

kind of appears to me conj has definently taken a huge step closer to WHM while THM seemed to keep AoE (or at least I don't see its removal mentioned here) in the area of debuffs and absorbs.

Excited to get back in game and run some test. I am all for being a dd/debuffer as THM, means I dont have to be main healbot (although I like playing healers).

T be honest, I wish they would just get it over with and tell use what jobs are going to what class specifically, so I can level whatever class I need to unlock bard (having been a bard main in every MMO I ever played, I liked it, and I want to keep it that way)

Losing AoE is major hit for THM, seems SE wants to make THM into RDM of old but they forgot that THM dont have any Elemental Debuffs other then Dia and Bio if you count those.
ShadowSear dmg being based off the Matk should be interesting to see, if they have Fixed the stat or not.

THM is now more damage oriented, potency of all the spells are enhanced... and CON is healers oriented... a big difference had to be made between the 2 mage classes

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Originally Posted by Heian

THM is now more damage oriented, potency of all the spells are enhanced... and CON is healers oriented... a big difference had to be made between the 2 mage classes

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in que to get in game ,to know for certain the differences, but Con did get ancient magic spells buffed, so your statement may not hold true.

I have a con 40 so i should be able to heal in a party but cause cons's aoe sucks i dislike playing it

Yep, THM has been nerfed. The fallout will be amusing to watch. *cooks popcorn*

My only problem regarding these nerfs is the healing MP costs...they are WAY too high...specially since THM also have some nasty HP cost too...now that it cannot become AoE anymore this MP cost is a nonsense.

Well, we did want the game to be harder...

MP cost doesn't add strategy though. We called for strategy not "make this game harder by making it a huge mp sink" that's just cheap actually. Higher level people its fine we'll get through it, but for low level people it makes thm impossible I believe to level, and why would anyone want to level with a thm now anyway we're the new blm, everyone just wants us at endgame, but in this game no exp loss, so they'll just magically want all thm 50 to do endgame but won't help em level.

Also, don't forget. With jobs impending soon, THM will become a specifically solo-style class.

White mage will probably get reduced healing MP costs as a part of party-structure. They're building something here.

I think it's an interesting chance on the THM part. I'm just hoping that THM's debuffs will prove more worthwhile than they were when I played before. The way I view the healing is that it's more like XI (you couldn't just effortlessly spam a cure and keep everyone alive). It's a welcome change, I think. Couldn't THM just equip Curaga from CON too, though?

I'm curious to see what job THM will get in the upcoming update, too. I would honestly like to see something like Green Mage (from FFTA2) and consider us more a debuffer, but I'm not sure. I can see BRD, or maybe RDM (although we'd be missing a lot of initial spells that CON has access to). So idk!

Both Curagas are CON only, so THM has no aoe cure at all until further notice.

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Originally Posted by LadaraHamiki

Both Curagas are CON only, so THM has no aoe cure at all until further notice.

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CON indeed learn them, but that doesn't mean other classes can't use them, can they?

They say "Required: Conjury" which means that nobody else can use them.

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Originally Posted by LadaraHamiki

They say "Required: Conjury" which means that nobody else can use them.

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Then that makes me glad I already pre-patch had impending plans to let THM sit for a while and level Conj. ^_^

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

MP cost doesn't add strategy though. We called for strategy not "make this game harder by making it a huge mp sink" that's just cheap actually. Higher level people its fine we'll get through it, but for low level people it makes thm impossible I believe to level, and why would anyone want to level with a thm now anyway we're the new blm, everyone just wants us at endgame, but in this game no exp loss, so they'll just magically want all thm 50 to do endgame but won't help em level.

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LOL it does bring strategy the strategy is to take care of your MP while healing other without using up all your mp. Trust me playing ffxi white mage and got it to 44 the only mage i ever level as a elvaan and trying to keep my mp above a % was very fun and rewarding and very strategic. You look it as a time sink i look at it as a strategy. i don't know why all the mage are complaining i know a lot of mage in ffxiv and even in ffxi where the mp get mess up within 3-5 mobs that very sad maybe they should take the time to learn how to take care of there mp.

After playing a bit last night, I tend to agree with Zenaku a bit.

I will admit, for what we lost in healing capability, we gained in damge output.

To be honest, I sespect a battery type class or job comming in the near future, but thats just my opinion.

For the person who is worried about the up-and-coming THM's:

I did a few behests and some grinding on my 23/24(ranked up) THM and had no problem being a main heal (only DoM in 5-7 member parties often). Between focusing on healing, DD learning how to let a tank actually tank, Siphon MP, Exaltation, Stygian Spikes (so tank could play mini-Paladin easily and if I was low on MP I would initiate battle with it and Punishing Barbs (they stack)) I had absolutely no MP trouble whatsoever. I rarely had to cure the DD but when I did a Cure I would suffice and I'd save Sacrifice II for the tank. For self curing I used Spirit Dart once in a while when I had a moment so I could use Second Wind on myself.

Speaking of Second Wind, between it, Stygian Spikes, Siphon MP and using Sacrifice II I had no problem soloing r40-42 coblyn thingers on my 33PGL. I have 360ish MP and Sacrifice II takes 68MP and still only had to rest for a second when I slipped under 68MP. This rest was only long enough to cast Stygian Spikes and then engage haha. Stygian Spikes isn't in the notes that I saw but I swear they changed the formula or something, or maybe it's just that I never really needed to use it/had need to pay attention to how good it is.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

After playing a bit last night, I tend to agree with Zenaku a bit.

I will admit, for what we lost in healing capability, we gained in damge output.

To be honest, I sespect a battery type class or job comming in the near future, but thats just my opinion.

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THM may be lame for party right now but who said there was for partying anyways? I guess players are forgetting the part that jobs would be added in 1.20 and they be base of partying not the class.

And the only reason they took off AOE was due to that point why should class have AOE spell if it was made for soloing? i guess the only reason they give AOE spell was for White mage job.

I guess people also forgot that 1.18 was just to release the first part of the fix/update and 1.19 1.20 and so on would bring more fix and the other part of class/job fix auto attack fix and much more.

Meh I feel like aoe removal is lame. However I understand that there's more to come, and at the moment I only solo anyway. Its like, the game is so early on and bare bones that Conj and Thm honestly don't feel like anything yet. Yea one has colors and one has darkness/light, but given that parties aren't all that common yet what does it even mean?

I do enjoy the higher spell damage. Gogo Thm solo!

I've been doing some grind parties and running the r25 dungeon on my Thm for a while, and have had no trouble being the main healer. I have crap for an mp pool (almost 600 after food and gear and party buffs!), since I haven't put a single point into mage stats, but I only have to use Exhaltation in the room with all the wisps. Is healing going to get significantly harder later? I don't understand how Thm is failing at being a healer now, and isn't a party class.

yes, to answer your question, it gets harder. 25 to 50 is a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

SO now alot of abilities like sacrafice I-III are all single target and cost more MP yet we have a lesser chance to gain MP back as well..........WOW what a nerf............

rez timer went up 5 fold.

Emulate got the nerf that everyone saw comming .

I knew we would take a hit, but this is ridiculos.

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THM never got screwed, it's just ways too buff before 1.18. Those nerf just a balance thing seems to me. Besides MP cost raise is not only for thm, u just need to get use to it.
And mages is still the only choice for lowman NMs or things like that. Check out the Buffalo/Dodore duo video I made and u will know that thm is not weak at all in 1.18.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...424#post309424

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Originally Posted by MuSaka

THM never got screwed, it's just ways too buff before 1.18. Those nerf just a balance thing seems to me. Besides MP cost raise is not only for thm, u just need to get use to it.
And mages is still the only choice for lowman NMs or things like that. Check out the Buffalo/Dodore duo video I made and u will know that thm is not weak at all in 1.18.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...424#post309424

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No need to explain, I have looooooong since changed my opinion from the time of the OP, which was made before any play time as a form of a disussion starter, while I was dowloading the update. I am happy with the thm/con changes

Thank you for your inut though.

If you do some cross-classing, THM can still tank a lot of stuff. The only difference now is that you can't really solo stuff that you shouldn't have been able to solo in the first place (Dodore etc) lol