To get more tanks in circulation

So i have a question. SE says they are trying to get more tanks in these dungeons so they give bonus's in roulette's for them. Well frankly that doesn't really work too well cause u go once and your done. I think the better fix would be to allow master looting for one in premades. Letting people not be afraid of gear being stolen by some random guy saying "oops i accidentally hit need." I know i haven't tanked things just because of that fact. I know someone is gonna say, but that will alow someone to ninja loot something. Well yes you are right, BUT doing that gives yourself a name and cause people to avoid your groups. Also why hasn't SE put in allowing u to group up with one person, then run a roulette. That there would bring more tanks in, because tanks will que with buddies that are DPS, so they will get a insta que. Try not to spam me with troll comments. If your a troll, go back under your bridge where you belong

Tank and healer seem about even now on my world and data center, behind dps of course. Can depend on the content if its tank or healer that takes longest to find. I still think more tank classes being added would get a lot more people into the role, especially if the new class is easy to use and has really cool looking gear. I don't have much opinion on looting, I am happy enough with the way that works now.

You seem to not understand what the roulette is for.

The roulette is to get players into circulation on low level content and 'undesirable' dungeons, with additional rewards going to players who go in as a role in need (Which happens to be usually tanks). It is an incentives for you to help others. It is not to get tanks in particular in, and should not be thought as such.

As for premade roulettes, that kind of pisses on the point of them. For every person you premake with, that's one less person the roulette is helping.

As for custom loot rules... you'll find no arguments from me. But that's not going to do anything to help incentives tanks.

And I see you're on Balmung, which has frequent Greed parties, and no history of ninjas (or at least wide spread ninjaism). So... not sure why you think this would help.

roulette u still have to do them for your soldiery, and for a dps the que time can be upwards of 30+minutes, that is just ridiculous. yes the gear is worthless in them but you miss the point of having to do these dungeons over and over and over every week because of soldiery or myth farming for atma.

I know myself ONLY do roulette once a day and that's it. BUT if i had a buddy that was a dps that didn't want to sit in front of their computer for an hour waiting on que, i would go with them making 2 other people get another tank. Where those two never would have had the chance before hand.

This is not a perfect world, people don't go out of their way to help random people that they will never meet. In a utopia i can see people joining these dungeon ques to help but its not.

for loot it does incentive tanks because i know many people that wont go on a specific class because they want a chance at loot and not have to worry about the "accidental greed"

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Originally Posted by jagyro

Letting people not be afraid of gear being stolen by some random guy saying "oops i accidentally hit need." I know i haven't tanked things just because of that fact. I know someone is gonna say, but that will alow someone to ninja loot something.

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There is no Ninja loot, period. Who on Earth are you to say "he stole MY gear" ?

So if someone disagrees with you, they are a troll. Good start.

There is no ninja looting in need/greed system. Hell for the most part everyone just passes on the new dungeon gear. Also as a DPS, roulette queues haven't been anywhere near 30 mins. More like 5. Only things that have long waits are CT and older content all together, but that is not just an issue of tank shortage. People just don't want to do them.

I think what the OP is saying with "ninja looting" is that the person who might roll as tank will avoid doing so if they need to gear an alt because if they roll tank and the gear drops they have to roll Greed against everyone else which includes people who lot on gear just to trade for seals or "just to collect". In the eyes of that particular player the guy who just lotted on an i70 mage body while standing there wearing High Allagan Robe of Casting is ninjaing his drop because being in the dungeon on a different class is preventing him from Needing that gear. I do it myself on Turn 1. I only run Turn 1 on SCH right now to farm healing gear. I'd gladly roll tank if I got a Greed party where I could claim a healer piece or if there was a way to guarantee a shot at that healer loot but I don't think it should be tanks only. More like an option to pick a class alternate to the one you're rolling as your "Need" class and forfeit "Need" on your current class.

Fix can be done @ 3.0 (if it be as first exp pack) add at least 2~3 tank job 1~2 heals , and 1 dps only since we already have 5 already

We aren't going to get six jobs with the expansion... 2-3 at most if that. Regardless, adding more tank classes won't solve anything. All that happens is the tank happy people level more tank classes and everyone else says "meh" and maybe levels it for S&Gs or simply for completion and keep maining their DPS or healer class. Many many people have one or both tank classes leveled and just don't run them because they don't like to tank. You can change how a tank class does its job but at the end of the day it's still tanking. You still have to mark...you still have to pull...you still need to hold hate.

jagyro -

I tank ifrit nm just to help people out, and to allow other players a quick roulette, do it once a week for an hour or so, just to help people out. no other incentive so yeah I'm sure other people do it to. no utopia needed.

i also do low lvl guildheists for the same thing... btw

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Originally Posted by Lithera

We aren't going to get six jobs with the expansion... 2-3 at most if that. Regardless, adding more tank classes won't solve anything. All that happens is the tank happy people level more tank classes and everyone else says "meh" and maybe levels it for S&Gs or simply for completion and keep maining their DPS or healer class. Many many people have one or both tank classes leveled and just don't run them because they don't like to tank. You can change how a tank class does its job but at the end of the day it's still tanking. You still have to mark...you still have to pull...you still need to hold hate.

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That and classes/jobs won't come with the expansion, but with patches. A new race on the other hand...

Actually Yoshi said jobs would come with patches. Classes on the other hand are likely expansions.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

More like an option to pick a class alternate to the one you're rolling as your "Need" class and forfeit "Need" on your current class.

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I really like this idea.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Actually Yoshi said jobs would come with patches. Classes on the other hand are likely expansions.

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Uh, no. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1653099

The way to get more people playing tanks is to redesign them to be more friendly to new players learning to tank. My suggestions:

1. Shield Lob can be 3 targets instead of 1. Maybe this was done to avoid it looking like "other" games equivalent, but making this an AoE threat tool instead of a single target would help Gladiator immensely.

2. Or, keep Shield Lob single target and give cross class Overpower. The idea of a "single target" and a "multi target" tank doesn't work in practice, because the "multi target" tank won't ever have issues with single target tanking (her abilities don't suddenly stop working because there are fewer mobs) but the "single target" tank WILL have issues with AoE (because her abilities never work to begin with).

3. ALL tank classes, now and going forward need their own taunt, and they need it early. Provoke being a level 22 Gladiator ability was a very poor design decision. This means that the only option for snapping a lost mob's attention back on you is chasing it down and trying to overwhelm it with abilities again. I've never played a game that seriously thought a taunt was a luxury ability instead of a staple of the tank role. This should have been one of the first abilities you get before you can go into dungeons.


A few better design decisions will make the job easier to do. When you have a role that already is less popular because of all the other things mentioned (have to lead the dungeon, have to mark, have to know every pull before you do it), taking away the tools to do the job only makes it even less popular.

Just add the lumberjack DPS Job
Requires level 50 Maurader and Level 50 Botanist.

BAM tank shortage fixed.

I agree with SoulJacker. Tanking is a lot of work in this game, much harder than mashing the same 3 buttons throughout a dungeon or boss battle, and when you get a basic pull so late in your tank's progression, it makes new tanks give up early.

There needs to be a noob mode up until level 15 or 20, where pulling and keeping enmity is easier and encourages tanks to "stick with it". When you're running Satasha and your favorite DF archer launches one arrow and pulls an entire mob, or your conjurer heals 2 people and pulls 3 enemies away from you, it's very frustrating. (Side note, I have a Paladin lv 45 that has barely done anything more than DF).

The simple fact that the DPS characters outweigh tanks/healers goes to show that it's just more *work* and less *fun* to play cnj/tnk. Both are extremely crucial to winning, tanks even more than cnj, because of cross-class abilities.

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Originally Posted by jagyro

So i have a question. SE says they are trying to get more tanks in these dungeons...I think the better fix would be to allow master looting for one in premades..

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TBH, I don't understand why allow master looting for one premade will get more tanks in circulation, did you mean master looting is advantage to tanks?

IMHO, include roulettes to the 200fights for obtaining the TANK mounts..^^;

honestly if you really want to get more people to play a tank.. make them a lot more dps heavy to where they can be close to a dps.. also you would have to get rid of this stupid "tank pulls" and "multiple mobs on said pull".. go back to one enemy that can keep being fed by a puller.. it puts a lot on a tank to do pretty much everything but heal in a pty... so its kind of scary to new people. and I guarantee you.. if they make a dps/tank out of ninja... you would be waiting a very long time for dps and healers in que's