whos at fault here?

at the lost city of amdapor

i was healing for a dungeon, and the tank is grabbing everything in sight, so when his health gets too low i cure or cure II if the situation calls for it, because his health does go low when hes pulling THAT much, and then during battle i'm healing him with cure II because hes takeing so much damage, other people are takeing damage too, so to avoid having to cast cure on everyone one at a time, i use medica II because i need that time to cast esuna on everyone to remove poisen, i also keep regen on the tank because again hes takeing damage and his health is dropping like crazy, and also he cant hold the aggro so the enemies are attacking other players, not just me.

Um...
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If I translated that properly, probably the tank? What about Cure III?

...what about Zoidberg?!

I think there's a bit of fault to go around to everyone. Was a speedrun discussed at the start? The tank say anything at all? Did anyone say anything at all beyond "Hi"? If not then the tank made a stupid assumption based on the gear he saw or just blindly speedran because that's his normal. THAT is on him. Now the DPS...they were taking damage. Were they eating avoidable AoEs? Were they pulling hate? If either one of those is true then the DPS carry blame too. On your end I see inexperience. In that situation I can see why you would hit Medica II but the more correct action there was Cure III. Esuna the tank only and Cure I and II through it for yourself and the DPS. Medica/Medica II and Regen on mass pulls like that will ALWAYS get you killed as a healer since you get enmity increases EVERY time the regen tics on Regen and Medica II.

Thanks for the advice and constructive criticism , i will definitely start prioritizing cure III over regen and medica II, i can not speak for the dps, but the tank was rushing in there.

imo as a whm main, just pop divine seal before you cast med2 and regen on tank, or use it to buff your cure 2 nuke healing. cure 3 isnt good if the dps (and yourself) is too far from the healing focus target. med 1 should be fine. If you have eye for an eye, use that on the tank to help a bit. also Presence Of Mind helps. bene if tank gets too low and you may not save them. during a bug pull in speed runs i tend to ignore status effects if my healing can overpower it and/or its more of a priority. you should be able to cure overpower cure poison. normally stuns on the tank is the only thing i try to put above everything. so a quick and smart timed esuna once you get close to topping a tank is best.

Just warn the tank next time that healing is your offspec. So don't pull too much.

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Originally Posted by Svaltus

i need that time to cast esuna on everyone to remove poisen

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No, you don't.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Just warn the tank next time that healing is your offspec. So don't pull too much.

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Unfortunately, that tends to not work in high level dungeons...too many people want the big pulls for speedruns.

did the group wipe, or was it just a bit hard for you..

in first case, try to improve or accept that it wasn't possible
in latter case, suck it up and enjoy the challenge

It is always the DPS's fault, ALWAYS! That is the first thing you get to learn in MMO's. It is ALWAYS the DPS's fault. Ask any tank. XD Whenever they screw up it is the fault of the DPS.

Honestly though, it is a tank issue. If pulls are too big it is a tank issue for not asking how big pulls he should do.

@OP.. I main a tank and I don't think you did anything wrong. As a tank I usually look at a parties HP and try to determine how much I should be able to pull. Most tanks probably do this. Usually 4.5k+ on all melee and 4k+ on casting usually means the party is around i90. They should be able to speed run the expert levels. If not then they best thing to do is try to discuss the SR option. If the tank says to bad, do your best. If he dies, let him rage quit and he gets his 30min penalty, if they vote kick you, then lucky you you can find a better group. Hard thing for me to understand is why the tank would risk wiping the party rather than being a little safer and pulling less.

I had a good example of this the other night in Brayflox... Jumped in (im ilvl 93 tank), had blm and mnk dps around ilvl90 but heals was only around 3.6k.. Right of the bat knew the healer wouldnt be able to keep up. So i pulled slowed the pulls. Finished the dungeon (sold run) without wiping in about 17mins. If i had tried to pull to much and wiped it probably would have taken the same amount of time if not longer.

TL/DR: Tanks need to learn to read the situation. Assume less and ask more.

There's some inexperience on your part, but I definitely feel like this was a tank thing centrally. If he's going to be pulling all the enemies, he needs to be able to generate enough enmity to hold all the enemies.

DPS pulling one mob's hate shouldn't be unmanageable, especially if they're mostly single-targetting (in which case it can be expected, as picking the tank's central target out of the cluster of 10+ mobs is hell), but they should still be dodging AoEs and not taking excess damage. If they're doing AoE pounding and grabbing aggro from the tank in the process that is definitely a failure of the tank to hold aggro.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

I think there's a bit of fault to go around to everyone.

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Cure 3 if everyones in range :) Sounds like Tanks fault tbh, as if he saw rest of party struggling he should have cut down the size of the pulls. Also they should have started with a smaller pull to judge the abilities of the rest of the party and adjust accordingly. Not just assume that every party comp can and will max speedrun.

no wipe no fault ^^;

Well, there is such a thing as pulling too much. And that is entirely on tank if they do it. There is also such a thing as pulling too little (slower than you have to be, not as much challenge = not as much fun, etc). So it is the tank's responsibility to get the pace right.

Secondly, there are things others - including healer - can do to make mass pulls go well:
- Be careful when you cast regen/medica2. Don't put these up when or just before tank is pulling. This would lead to you getting agro quickly, before tank gains good control.
- If you do get agro, get close to the tank.
- Everyone get close together (healer and DPS). This is both for making it easy on tank to regain lost agro, and also for Cure3/medica/succor/whatever.
- For WHM, use Holy. For example, Swiftcast > Holy > (normal) Holy causes the 2nd Holy to land exactly when the stun from 1st Holy is wearing off. Total of about 6 secs everything stunned. The damage is just gravy. Of course, this requires all the enemies to be close together. And you have to make sure you can switch safely between healing and Holy. It is kind of a skill-intensive tactic -- some beginners stay away from it.

Finally, the whole "tank holding agro" thing can be done easily and reliably just by the tank in most situations. Even with just the bare minimum of assistance from healer/DPS (ie, ignoring most of the above I typed). I go in there on i99 WAR after having done it far more times than I can count... Big trash pulls are just never even close to a problem. However, if you get a lower geared and less experienced tank that wants to romp through (this is how they learn, hopefully), then there are likely to be some mistakes made.

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Originally Posted by RhazeCain

Well, there is such a thing as pulling too much. And that is entirely on tank if they do it. There is also such a thing as pulling too little (slower than you have to be, not as much challenge = not as much fun, etc). So it is the tank's responsibility to get the pace right.

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Which you cannot always judge by gear and job alone in DF. You might know what they are capable of in certain jobs with a certain level of gear. Doesn't mean the player is XD I've seen enough high ilvl geared players who don't utilize correctly half their abilities. Only way is to start (take Bray for example) with a 2 pack pull, which if they aint so great, doesnt cause too much stess. but if they blitz it. You adjust.

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