Coeurls are cats ; ;

What reason in the lore is there for having coeurl "pups"? Coeurl are large cat class predator monsters and should be cubs.

Is there something in the storyline I may have missed that explains this?

Different animals have different names for their young. Baby anteaters, bats, hamsters and coeurls are all pups.

Pup can apply to quite a few mammal creatures. And since the coeurl isn't really a cat, there doesn't seem to be a lore problem.

Yes, there's a difference between being "cat-like" and physically being a cat. Coeurls are the former.

There are coeurl pups and kittens...

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/671341068f4/

I thought this same exact thing, but even after going through the entire Wikipedia chart and seeing that pup is primarily for canids and rodents and has no presence in felidae, people still seem keen to defend it. I think they should keep the minion as kitten, but change the pups to cubs, which appear in both canidae and fenidae. But, even then, we still have Kyan's fight to fight - why does the pup have whiskers and no spots (implying that spots come later in development) if the kitten has spots and no whiskers? Does it temporarily lose its spots when it grows whiskers? What is this!?

Maybe the Coeurl kitten isn't really a coeurl. Someone's house cat got adopted by the mother Coeurl (the cat went along with it because, hey free food). This would explain why it warms to you so fast. It's used to people. But a cat found with a Coeurl must really be a Coeurl, duh!, so therefore Coeurl kitten! Won't we be surprised when it stops growing at house cat size and just has cat whiskers. Adventurers aren't the brightest bulbs. After all how else do you explain us thinking that a purple pig is a baby behemoth even though they look completely different. How the heck does that cute piggy snout and trotters become the bestial muzzle and paws of the adult?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I thought this same exact thing, but even after going through the entire Wikipedia chart and seeing that pup is primarily for canids and rodents and has no presence in felidae, people still seem keen to defend it. I think they should keep the minion as kitten, but change the pups to cubs, which appear in both canidae and fenidae. But, even then, we still have Kyan's fight to fight - why does the pup have whiskers and no spots (implying that spots come later in development) if the kitten has spots and no whiskers? Does it temporarily lose its spots when it grows whiskers? What is this!?

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I call a boycott on summoning the coeurl kitten minion! /protest

You are forgetting that a lot of animals look different when younger. For instance, a lot of sea animals start out as very small creatures, like a barnacle and crab. The larva is WAY different than what the adult looks like. In fact, larva barnacles actually are considered plankton as they swim and are carried by the ocean currents. It is only when they find a suitable place to land on (say a pier or a whale) that they attach themselves to that object (cementing their bodies) and metamorphosis into their adult form. Crabs look totally different too, with being plankton. Look them up on YouTube videos to see how different they are.

But yes, Coerul are feline-like creatures. They can be considered "kittens" as with the minion. Where does it say that they are pups?

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

Where does it say that they are pups?

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There are monsters called "Coeurl Pups" which are Coeurls with no spots. I think there is also FATE text. Like a baby Dalmatian dog, going from spotless to spots in adulthood.

If the kitten is truly a coeurl, it goes from a tiny, spotty creature with no whiskers [kitten phase] - grows whiskers and loses its spots [pup phase] - then has whiskers and spots [adult phase].

We have a link between coeurl and torama (torama models being often called "coeurl" in some instances, like treasure maps), so perhaps like the torama, the coeurl kitten is just a relative or subspecies of coeurl?

I'm actually more curious to know what happened to true cats. I mean, where are they? Did they all evolve into miqo'te after extensive cross-breeding with hyurs?

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

extensive cross-breeding with hyurs?

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I'm trying not to let the realization of what this means sink in...the imagery might cause my brain to explode

Considering lions are mythical creatures who look like Mi'qote, and coeurl is a generic term for all the catlike monsters, why would you think there are 'true' cats?

Coeurl are cats.

Also: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...an_english/pup
Cats are mammals, so you can call their young 'pups'.

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Originally Posted by gornotck

Considering lions are mythical creatures who look like Mi'qote, and coeurl is a generic term for all the catlike monsters, why would you think there are 'true' cats?

Coeurl are cats.

Also: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...an_english/pup
Cats are mammals, so you can call their young 'pups'.

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You *can*, but it is much more correct to refer to a cat-class creature (especially a large predatory cat) as a "cub" in its young form. We call all tiger, leopard, lion animals cubs.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...lish/cub?q=cub

Coeurls are more closely related to large carnivorous mammals such as lion, so this is why I believe they are as cubs not pups.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Coeurl

In every Final Fantasy they appear, they are classified as cat class. It is very minor - but I love coeurls and all cats. Kittens and cubs are the terms we use for cats.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You *can*, but it is much more correct to refer to a cat-class creature (especially a large predatory cat) as a "cub" in its young form. We call all tiger, leopard, lion animals cubs.

[...]

Coeurls are more closely related to large carnivorous mammals such as lion, so this is why I believe they are as cubs not pups.

[...]

In every Final Fantasy they appear, they are classified as cat class. It is very minor - but I love coeurls and all cats. Kittens and cubs are the terms we use for cats.

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Mostly what I was aiming for was to indicate that people trying to say that the species of the Coeurl Kitten minion is entirely different than other coeurl, or that the kitten isn't a coeurl at all because it has spots and Coeurl Pups do not is ludicrous. Absolutely asinine.
With English, an incredibly small amount is 'correct'. You're just more used to hearing 'cub' than 'pup' when referring to felines and feline-shaped things.

lol weird hey?
especially when the Minion that you can get is a Kitten ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncilla

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the Oncilla, a small South American striped cat, also called a "tiger cat" or "tigrillo."

I submit that a Coeurl Kitten (or Tiny Coeurl in Japanese) is not actually the same genus as the more common big coeurls, but rather a species of related genus from the same family that has become domesticated. And since Eorzea seems to be lacking in an extensive taxonomic classification structure, common usage has simply named them for looking like a smaller version of an adult coeurl, since the average person would only know of them through descriptions and drawings.

What you are forgetting is the quest around the kitten, mentioning it to be a baby coeurl captured/smuggled to Vylbrand by pirates to be trained as a battle coeurl. Similar to how they have a coeurl in Sastasha that attacks you - it was smuggled there by the pirates in the "Cattery".

I am not saying that 'pups' are wrong - I have no issue with that term being used at all. I have issues with the fact the coeurl kitten has spots and no whiskers, and pups have whiskers and no spots, and them both being "coeurls." This does not seem logical to me, and I feel that the coeurl kitten is either not intended to be a coeurl, or there is some miscommunication/no background checking between minion team and lore team for things in game already.

I did entirely forget about that.

The. Minion. Description. ANSWERS. YOUR. ISSUE.
"Summon your coeurl kitten minion. It will still be several summers before his trademark whiskers grow out."
Whiskers are answered.
So your only "issue" is that the kitten has spots, but the Coeurl Pup does NOT have spots, while every other coeurl does, apparently.

Thanks gornotck for your contribution :)

Normally I wouldn't reply, as I feel you're being a tad aggressive (or perhaps passionate about coeurls which is really cool by me, they're awesome! So forgive me for assuming you're being rude if that's the case), and I feel that is a tad unwarranted in this circumstance.

Firstly, I enjoy discussing lore aspects here with people whom I would consider my "lore friends," and when errors are picked up amongst us, I notice that people politely report them to SE, most of the time they get rectified, and we have a better game to play because of the care put in. I feel that this could be potentially one of those circumstances, however minor.

I am not arguing with you, and yes, I am aware of the kitten description. I can fully appreciate the growth of "whiskers" coming with time - it was not really what I was highlighting by mentioning it. I feel that there may be some communication and design errors between the creation of the minion and the preexisting lore that predates the implementation of the kitten and its surrounding quests. This can be seen with how originally, coeurl young (the pups) are being treated like the young of leopards - born without spots - and developing these spots as they grow older. (Also, it wouldn't be the first time there have been some communication/design errors within the game, such as with the Rothlyt Sound being used in many item descriptions, including leves, for events and enemies around Aleport and Vylbrand, even though it is on the opposite side of Aldenard and nowhere near La Noscea. The leves were rectified, but the enemy names remain...)

As an aside, I also feel that the minion may have just been given this coeurl lore to "fit it into the world of ffxiv" - in Valentine's day promotional art, and in the .dat files, there is a very similar minion/cat to the coeurl kitten, but coloured all black. Perhaps these minions were simply designed on domestic cats? Perhaps they were based on coeurls and jaguars, and the designers did not fully consider the full spectrum of the coeurl lore? Maybe I'm just overthinking it all? Perhaps, like I have previously suggested, the sequence of growth is correct, and the kitten just simply has a spotty, darker baby coat that moults once it gets whiskers?

Either way, I apologise if my thinking aloud makes you angry. It just does not seem logical or sequential to me, and I like to hear other's opinions.

I do apologize if I seemed directly angered with you or your thinking. It is not so. Please see it as a passion for... accuracy and focus.

As to logic, then logically yes. Everything about the coeurl kitten was designed to try to make it fit in. It has spots because that makes people think 'coeurl', instead of 'house cat'. It doesn't have whiskers because minions are low definition models.

Nothing, however, says that the kitten can't start with spots, lose the spots as they age and grow the more armored sections of their body, then inexplicably gain the spots back as they age. Sort of a cougar -> leopard change.

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

Maybe the Coeurl kitten isn't really a coeurl. Someone's house cat got adopted by the mother Coeurl (the cat went along with it because, hey free food). This would explain why it warms to you so fast. It's used to people. But a cat found with a Coeurl must really be a Coeurl, duh!, so therefore Coeurl kitten! Won't we be surprised when it stops growing at house cat size and just has cat whiskers. Adventurers aren't the brightest bulbs. After all how else do you explain us thinking that a purple pig is a baby behemoth even though they look completely different. How the heck does that cute piggy snout and trotters become the bestial muzzle and paws of the adult?

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ALL THE LOGIC!!!!!

Well remember we also have coeurl mounts that have been trained as kittens to see us as friend and not food. Coeurl kitten can lead into lore of coeurl mount without it being a random kitten that latched to an adult coeurl as mom.

Maybe Coerl pups are Sterile hybrids of Coerls and wolves, like Mules. That would explain the lack of spots, weird nomenclature, and being physically immature.

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Originally Posted by Kletian

Maybe Coerl pups are Sterile hybrids of Coerls and wolves, like Mules. That would explain the lack of spots, weird nomenclature, and being physically immature.

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This just opens up a lot of new, unwelcome questions.
Such as: did their parents bond over a plate of flaccid, boiled wheat paste with a tomato and meat paste topping under a gibbous moon while a Roegadyn played a hand organ over them?

It would be strange, indeed. Dogs and cats are not genetically compatible - and I don't want to bring another controversial topic here but if this is where SE was going with it then they should SERIOUSLY reconsider their stance on other aspects of the game's future that affect player characters.

I think it's just a translation error, personally. Pup can conceivably be translated to whatever the young cat Japanese equivalent is, but in English, Cub is still more correct for the young of a large, wild cat.

It's been an interesting discussion, anyway. I appreciate all the replies!

In my mind (and partly disregarding the spot/spotless differences) I tend to put the use of the word "Pup" down to the more dated use late 16th century British - a conceited young man (esp in the phrase young pup)

The biggest population of "pups" is in the area right next to Poor maids mill which is currently inhabited by some Salthounds (ex-pirates) who use that type of dated language often. Now when these "arrogant young pups" decide to maul a few of the Salthounds and invade the settlement looking for an easy meal (as well as all the other Fates these poor guys have to put up with constantly) I can forgive them for not caring to call the Coeurls by an appropriate term.

Meanwhile (again disregarding the spot element) I could see the Young Coeurls up in Outer La Noscea that hang around the floating City could be more often encountered by more scholarly types researching the ruins and Maelstrom Officials who may be more inclined to give and refer them with scientifically correct names for their records..

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Originally Posted by Kurenshi

[...].

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This is probably the most likely series of events, I think.
The young Pups, known to be a nuisance to Poor Maids and a mild annoyance to old Salthounds, get a nom de puma appropriate to their rough tongues.