Being Gendered Correctly

My character name is a female name. My character is female. Yet I still get people calling me "he" in chat every time.

Not only is the assumption that I apparently "must" be a guy rather insulting, but it's also kind of a painful one. I'm a trans woman. Being called "he" really hurts, and playing a female character with a female name should be sufficient to get gendered as female. And if people aren't sure they could at least ask.

Pretty much the only thing I could do about this beyond what I have already is start off every party with, "By the way, I'm a girl." Not only does it feel obnoxious and tedious to have to do, but I'm well aware of how many in the gaming community react to someone being visibly female.

But overall? If you can't be bothered to ask, please just gender based on avatar. It's far simpler and less insulting than assuming every player is a guy.

everyone on the internet is a G.I.R.L.(either way you're misgendering a lot of people)

As a female gamer as well, I'm really tired of this. Stop assuming that I'm a man. Generally, I assume character gender = player gender unless proven otherwise, and have NO problem giving a gentle correction when that happens when I'm playing one of my boys...but girls? Really? Yes. We exist in gaming and MMOs. So please stop assuming we're all men.

I'm sure someone will pop in with "It's not a big deal, get over it"...but when you've played many MMOs and found this attitude to be the most prevalent, yes, it does get tiring. Just because we're used to casual sexism in games doesn't mean that it's not exhausting to put up with.

There's no real need to be insulted, keep in mind, many people properly name a character, even if they are not of the same gender as that character. Sayin "he" is more a general catch all now when meetin someone new on the internet, no one is trying to hurt your feelins, it's more just a generic term applied to someone, since most people have a hard time thinkin in genderless terms, which would be over all more equal...

It's not a general catch because it's an assumption. If you want to go gender neutral, use "they".

Sorry, Kimmy, this happens to me all the time. Sometimes it annoys me to the point of correcting the person but most of the time I just grit my teeth and ignore it. Even if you say you're a woman, there's a good chance some won't believe you. It is extremely sexist to assume that "everyone online is a man until proven otherwise." I recently did a research paper on game addiction and read a report that 31% of adult gamers are female. This may be a far cry from equal representation in the game world but it's still a lot more than no percent. Not everyone has to know that I'm a woman, most of the time it's not important, but I always shake my head whenever someone calls me "bro" because that assumption is always there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimmy_Dee

It's not a general catch because it's an assumption. If you want to go gender neutral, use "they".

---

i wouldnt let this bother you at all. many MANY times i would think someone is a girl, they correct me and say their a guy,
even in their female character or vice versa. i am in no way trying to hurt feelings though.
just correct them and go abt your day. :c sorry i am not trying to be mean or anything
but is nothing to get upset about.
but have a hug to feel better:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8...jtugo1_500.gif

Again, most people tend to only think in he or she, not with gender neutral terms, I'm not sayin it's right, but more pointin out, that's how people tend to think.

I personally do use they when referring to someone I don't know in game, but that was developed over time.

Believe it or not, no one is being personal.

It's just how some people are used to just using "he". Especially on the internet where you have no idea who the person behind the character is. Just politely correct them. Type "*she" when they use "he" and most would be willing to correct themselves. Those that make a big fuss out of it are just childish and you should just ignore them.

I am male, and I used to play a game where classes were gender locked. The mage class was locked as a female character, which I reluctantly played, as I would rather my character's gender be the same as mine. With that came the use of female pronouns when people referred to me in chat. It used to be annoying, but on the internet, especially when partying with random people in dungeons that don't last more than an hour (this was the case on the game I used to play as well), people don't care whether you're a male, female, trans, etc. It's just one thing that you learn to ignore.

TL;DR: You're probably never gonna see these people again so don't sweat the small stuff and move on.

Generally speaking gender neutrality can be difficult for some people to think in. It's largely a cultural thing where language supports, or doesn't, neutral verbage. English has alot of gender specific words but only a few gender neutral identifiers (specifically it, them, their, they), one is generally used in identifying a thing instead of a person and the rest are generally used to reference many people instead of just one person. As such, it's difficult for those taught first in English to think outside the binds of gender identification. The Japanese, though, have alot of words for 'they' and use them alot in their writing. But I digress. I generally just ignore it unless it becomes an issue, I'm too old and set in my ways to let how I'm identified in absent speech bother me. Not saying you have to roll over and accept it, just that there's more pressing things to get bent out of shape about.

I honestly play both male and female characters because i like having the option to play both but the hassle is that i have to level both up. Plus im doing a little experiment right now with my female black mage(not giving the name) to see what people would say when i start tanking on my MRD to see if people would treat me differently.

Last person I figured was a girl because of the PC ended up being a guy, I'm just going to consider everyone guys until further notice. I myself if I was playing on a Female PC would say it in my Search Info, "I'm a guy who's playing as a Girl PC, don't pester me about it." You're free to play as what you want, if people can't respect or acknowledge it appropriately than ignore them.

As a female gorilla who identifies as a male gorilla I, too, find it very offensive to be referred to as a carp. I just want to kill dwarves all day, and I keep getting my privilege checked by these gosh darned atom smashing drawbridges.

Why be offended? You can't fault people for taking the safe bet. I assume everyone's a guy until notified otherwise. If they want me to know they're not a male, they'll speak up.

It doesn't have to be personal for it to be painful at worst, tiresome at best.

And honestly the "English isn't very gender neutral as a language" doesn't really address that people are assuming one gender over the other pretty consistently regardless of all other available evidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimmy_Dee

It doesn't have to be personal for it to be painful at worst, tiresome at best.

And honestly the "English isn't very gender neutral as a language" doesn't really address that people are assuming one gender over the other pretty consistently regardless of all other available evidence.

---

then just tell them youre a girl then lol. be prepared 2 have
"pics pls?" and morons flirting with you all day. i personally just keep quiet because who really needs to know what gender i am.
im sorry i cant really feel for you since i never once felt offended.

on the plus side, sometimes you can get gil and goodies for being a girl character.
yay girls! http://media.tumblr.com/92cf17a0e43d...sJ31qz4rgp.gif

Yep, been called a "he" lots of times. It's becoming very annoying because it feels like they had already assumed I was a guy no matter what, even though my female character is right in front of them. I call people "he/she" based on the gender of their character. If it's incorrect they will correct me.

People who call you a "he" are either being very funny or are just plain idiots. Your lala is just to adorable and with the name Kimmy! I want to squeeze you! x3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Sorry, Kimmy, this happens to me all the time. Sometimes it annoys me to the point of correcting the person but most of the time I just grit my teeth and ignore it. Even if you say you're a woman, there's a good chance some won't believe you. It is extremely sexist to assume that "everyone online is a man until proven otherwise." I recently did a research paper on game addiction and read a report that 31% of adult gamers are female. This may be a far cry from equal representation in the game world but it's still a lot more than no percent. Not everyone has to know that I'm a woman, most of the time it's not important, but I always shake my head whenever someone calls me "bro" because that assumption is always there.

---

31%? ORLY?

I get called a "he" all the time and it doesn't bother me. Just get over it.

I fail to see an issue here to be honest. If I know someone is X I'll refer to them as such, but if I don't I'm not going to go out of my way to confirm a gender and will default to he until corrected. This isn't me trying to be mean or evil it's just making the safest bet when 9 out of 10 players are guys. I'm not going to call everyone by their characters gender just so I can be "right" that one time it's not a dude behind the keyboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marowit

I fail to see an issue here to be honest. If I know someone is X I'll refer to them as such, but if I don't I'm not going to go out of my way to confirm a gender and will default to he until corrected. This isn't me trying to be mean or evil it's just making the safest bet when 9 out of 10 players are guys. I'm not going to call everyone by their characters gender just so I can be "right" that one time it's not a dude behind the keyboard.

---

It shouldn't be females fault a male wants to play a female character. That reasoning is ridiculous. I can see why OP would get hurt. None of you have to live with the challenge of being transgender. Character is female, must be a female. Looks like a girl, must be a girl. They shouldn't play a female if they don't want to be called a she. Why cater to that? Girls do exist online.

a large portion of people playing this game are males who roll as female toons. I'm a female rolling as a female toon and get the "he" treatment as well. I used to constantly correct people but I got to the point where it felt tiresome and I just stopped caring.

I know it impacts you on a much deeper level than it does to me, but there isn't much to do. In gaming people assume you are a guy until you say otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empressia

31%? ORLY?

---

Sorry, the 31% is the percentage of adult women who play. I rechecked the report I read and see that the total percentage of female players (of all ages) is 45%. Source: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

that's as useless as saying "45% of tv viewers are women"

there are tons of different genres of games and the breakdown is going to vary wildly between them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takeva

It shouldn't be females fault a male wants to play a female character. That reasoning is ridiculous. I can see why OP would get hurt. None of you have to live with the challenge of being transgender. Character is female, must be a female. Looks like a girl, must be a girl. They shouldn't play a female if they don't want to be called a she. Why cater to that? Girls do exist online.

---

You're right I'm not transgender. To be honest though I have to wonder how much of this problem is real and how much of it is the OP being mad random strangers don't acknowledge something they don't know is happening. Had the OP not said it I myself would have never guessed they used to be a man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jars

that's as useless as saying "45% of tv viewers are women"

there are tons of different genres of games and the breakdown is going to vary wildly between them

---

Never mind that those are both statistics presented without supporting evidence or qualifying explanations. They could mean anything. A company can claim "87% of people think our product is great!" and they don't have to state who those people are. They could be their own employees. Or only certain demographics.

Also I'd like to point out that one's own comfort zone is not necessarily a standard one should project onto other people. Replies like "not a big deal", "get over it", etc. are not compassionate responses to this issue. It may not be a big deal to you but similarly you probably have issues that others, myself included, wouldn't particularly care about. Would you want us to respond to you in the same manner?

How about: You have a point. Yeah that sucks. Maybe this is something I should take into account in future online interactions. Calling a person "too sensitive" is a convenient way of ignoring their needs. Nobody is saying you're a jerk for referring to everyone as "he." You didn't know. Now you do. You can change the behavior, it's really not that hard.

I think a good rule of thumb is that people are addressed by the pronouns of the character they're playing. I used to work in HR and an associate once came to me and asked how to address a trans person who wanted to use the fitting room. I suggested that they use the pronouns of the person's gender presentation. Of course, this isn't always going to work for everyone, but it seems like a respectful approach, one that could easily be applied to the game world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jars

that's as useless as saying "45% of tv viewers are women"

there are tons of different genres of games and the breakdown is going to vary wildly between them

---

At least my assumptions would be based on some kind of research. It seems like your assumption that almost all FFXIV players are men is just pulled out of nowhere. I posted where I got my information. Where are you getting yours? Personal experience? People like have different experiences you know? Gah!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takeva

I can see why OP would get hurt. None of you have to live with the challenge of being transgender..

---

I really don't care if someone is transgender, gay, straight or whatever. If I call someone he that is actually female, or woman in a man's body, if they correct me, I'll type she. I've had people I've called he that said they were female, so I called them she, but that didn't stop them from calling me Viz when the name I choose was Vizzer. Did you ever think that could bother me? The thing is people can complain about anything they want and say it offends them. I'm not saying he because I assume you are male, I say he because it is an accepted shorthand right now. There is no social injustice about this, this is just someone looking for something to complain about, if you can't handle that you will be dealing with people, then maybe you should pay more attention to the warning about online interactions. I see a lot of the LGBT complain about being treated differently, but when we do something like this where people treat you the same as everyone else, a thread gets made complaining about how hurtful it is.

Sorry dude, but I'm not going to bother to ask, as your gender or what ever you identify as, doesn't matter to me.

You say "By the way, I'm a girl" is obnoxious to you, how obnoxious do you think it would be for every one to go "HEY! WHAT GENDER ARE YOU?! WHAT DO YOU GOT IN YOUR PANTS?!". It's not the assumption that every one is a guy, it's just an attempt at being as neutral as possible. Do you think there are guys out there playing as female avatars that wouldn't be upset if they are constantly referred to as "she" as well? The English language has always used masculine pronouns as its defacto when referring to some one of an unknown gender; it's how the language works.

If you'd like to change that, well, good luck.

I just base gender on character gender. I've always done it in any game I've ever played, and for the most part no one corrects me even if I'm wrong. People I become friends with I just eventually learn their real gender and either have an "oh, cool" moment or a "WOW REALLY?" moment (it's quite funny when you were friends with someone you assumed was female for nearly a year and then you suddenly find out they're a guy).

I just assume that if someone takes offense to me gendering them based on their character, they'll kindly correct me. If they don't, I assume they don't care or aren't bothered enough by it. Most of the time I just let people think I'm a male since my characters are usually male, I don't really care all that much lmao.

hm you want numbers? take for example lol, the most popular game in the world. riot does statistics on their player base. guess what? you got it! 90% male.

the whole 45% of gamers are women is, like I said, as dumb as saying 45% of tv viewers are women so why doesn't espn have more content for women? because most women don't watch espn even though they might watch tv

I get called a he all the time too. To be honest.....


I dont really care. Chances are they dont either.

I kind of get it, but to be honest? I don't play this game with that level of expectation. I just play for a good/fun time; though this is subjective I suppose.
The opposite is true for me. I am male and play a female character; get addressed as a "she" constantly. Very rarely called a "he"; typically only by those who are close enough to me to know.
Doesn't bother me at all.

Guess you and I just have different approaches to this.
Sucks it's not working out as you expect it. But my personal advise would be not to expect it. It might lessen the impact; though not fix the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rakashu

Sorry dude, but I'm not going to bother to ask, as your gender or what ever you identify as, doesn't matter to me.

You say "By the way, I'm a girl" is obnoxious to you, how obnoxious do you think it would be for every one to go "HEY! WHAT GENDER ARE YOU?! WHAT DO YOU GOT IN YOUR PANTS?!". It's not the assumption that every one is a guy, it's just an attempt at being as neutral as possible. Do you think there are guys out there playing as female avatars that wouldn't be upset if they are constantly referred to as "she" as well? The English language has always used masculine pronouns as its defacto when referring to some one of an unknown gender; it's how the language works.

If you'd like to change that, well, good luck.

---

How did these pronouns become "de facto"? Who decides how language "works"? Language is an ever evolving thing. Perhaps masculine pronouns became the default at a time when women were being treated unequally and perhaps things still are not equal even now. Some authors however have taken different approaches: using he/she, or they, alternating gender pronouns (he in even numbered chapters, she in odd numbered chapters, for example). There's not one way to do language and it's certainly worth considering examining new was when the old ways are bothering some people.

I used to get bothered by this a lot honestly it still irks me a bit. But correcting people only makes them say how you're a dude anyway. I just stopped caring and let people find out I'm a girl through voice chat. Lol.

Good luck changing the mentality of gaming culture via the XIV forums that's been engraved in peoples minds over the past 30-40 years.

If it's your friends calling you "he" then let them know the one time, if it's randomers in pt/df finder then who the hell cares? just ignore them and enjoy the game instead of fixating on a missing letter, in fact just pretend they didn't hit the S key.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jars

hm you want numbers? take for example lol, the most popular game in the world. riot does statistics on their player base. guess what? you got it! 90% male.

the whole 45% of gamers are women is, like I said, as dumb as saying 45% of tv viewers are women so why doesn't espn have more content for women? because most women don't watch espn even though they might watch tv

---

What!! Every female I know watch espn wth you taljing about. Also you still not showing any proof of your nunbers. I would also like to add on my psn friendlist including 4 of my sisters are 21 out of 50 are females that play this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jars

hm you want numbers? take for example lol, the most popular game in the world. riot does statistics on their player base. guess what? you got it! 90% male.

the whole 45% of gamers are women is, like I said, as dumb as saying 45% of tv viewers are women so why doesn't espn have more content for women? because most women don't watch espn even though they might watch tv

---

Can we at least agree that a non-zero number of FFXIV players are women, some don't like being referred to as "he", and their feelings matter?