Bard needs a new support:

Lets have a little fun! I would like to see people vote on which ability you would like to see return in XIV from prior Final Fantasy titles.

Taken From Final Fantasy IV:

#1
Lullaby; Initial Puts enemies to Sleep.

#2
Alluring Air; Initial Confuses enemies.

#3
Life's Anthem; Continuously restores party's HP for a period of time.

#4
Hastemarch ; Casts Haste on the entire party.

#5
Hero's Rhyme; Boosts all stats of party by 10%

There were plenty more, but most would not be fitting with FFXIV in mind (I mean, casting Toad would be a little weird lol.)

<.< I dunno about anyone else but I want the charm that the moogle bard uses during King Moogle Mog.

First off, Why isn't haste in the game?!!! I mean with Skill speed being so unatractive at endgame, and everyone only choosing DTRM on gear, having haste on a bard would be benifical for wiping trash mobs! Granted I would like to see a huge Cooldown Reset option to keep it balenced!

Lullaby! This is something I don't understand, BLM can use Sleep, but I cant sing an opponent to sleep?!?!? Kinda making the role-playing of bard pointless... This needs to be added!

Alluring Air, needs to be in game, in fact Confusion in general needs to be added as a status effect!!!!

Hastemarch. Same thing here, need haste in game!

Boost all Party by 10%, would like too with a OGCD 180sec timer would be fair!

Lullaby and charm are all well and good but don't provide much utility when it comes to single target boss fights. (reason I say this is, chances of getting one new skill is good, asking for multiple new ones is unlikely)

Haste would be a nice idea, a regen ability would also be good similar to Army's Paeon in FF11.

To the above, haste is in the game, Selene would like a word with you, of course nobody uses her in dungeons/end game content. (I think she would like a word with everybody >.>)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2070291

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2070291

---

I disagree with the OP on this! Bards have a history of healing in FF games! Granted they don't have a consistent healing ability in this one, but the LB should remain the same! It's the only link remaining to a true bard!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RogueSpecter

I disagree with the OP on this! Bards have a history of healing in FF games! Granted they don't have a consistent healing ability in this one, but the LB should remain the same! It's the only link remaining to a true bard!!!!

---

Sorry, I think i must have had the other thread on my mind. I had taken "support" to mean purely the LB. If that's what this is about, I would then still refer you to add your comments to the other thread, but in rereading, I think you mean more for songs/battle support, etc.

A Bard ability from previous FFs? Hmm, how about Hide? I mean, it was Edward's personal ability in FFIV. >w>

The bard in this game is more of a DPS class then a support class as it doesn't have a huge amount of support abilities to aid the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inosaska

The bard in this game is more of a DPS class then a support class as it doesn't have a huge amount of support abilities to aid the party.

---

And that is why it needs more (job based) abilities! Having only 3 major songs is kinda lame.... 2 of which are only useful if coordinating with party. Which brings me to my next point! Army's Paeon, why is there no TP meter to see in game for PARTY?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inosaska

The bard in this game is more of a DPS class then a support class as it doesn't have a huge amount of support abilities to aid the party.

---

That's because most bards are bad <.<

Don't get me wrong, but a bard who is *pewpew* killing mobs isn't a good bard. A good bard will always have a little song to give to ease his comrades' life while rampaging in Eorzea's dungeons, as long as he has the mp for it.

I consider myself a pretty decent bard, I have yet to see a single party where healers ran out of mp even with multiple raises, TP isn't a problem as I usually burn mine faster than anyone and gets army's ready, and casters love my debuffs. But all that come at a cost, and I have an awful dps (still better than tanks in dps stance, thanksfully). Parse me, and you'll lock me out of the party forever. Yet you'll lose a great support if you do that.

I think what the bard needs most is a real occasion to use his songs. Out of speedruns and raids, there is nothing much to do where my art is needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

That's because most bards are bad <.< Don't get me wrong, but a bard who is *pewpew* killing mobs isn't a good bard. A good bard will always have a little song to give to ease his comrades' life while rampaging in Eorzea's dungeons, as long as he has the mp for it.

I consider myself a pretty decent bard, I have yet to see a single party where healers ran out of mp even with multiple raises, TP isn't a problem as I usually burn mine faster than anyone and gets army's ready, and casters love my debuffs. But all that come at a cost, and I have an awful dps (still better than tanks in dps stance, thanksfully). Parse me, and you'll lock me out of the party forever. Yet you'll lose a great support if you do that.

I think what the bard needs most is a real occasion to use his songs. Out of speedruns and raids, there is nothing much to do where my art is needed.

---

If you're constantly singing in dungeons, you're doing it wrong. Don't get me wrong, ballad is great when things go to hell, or a healer dies and needs a quick pick me up. But your job is to dps, most healers have decent enough mp management they don't need your songs outside of specific situations. Singing when they don't need it is just needlessly lowering your dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaela

<.< I dunno about anyone else but I want the charm that the moogle bard uses during King Moogle Mog.

---

The PLD charms, not the BRD. BRD only buffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taban

If you're constantly singing in dungeons, you're doing it wrong. Don't get me wrong, ballad is great when things go to hell, or a healer dies and needs a quick pick me up. But your job is to dps, most healers have decent enough mp management they don't need your songs outside of specific situations. Singing when they don't need it is just needlessly lowering your dps.

---

+1 to Taban

The best bards doesn't simply anyhow sing songs.

I want the original 2.0 bard back :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inosaska

The bard in this game is more of a DPS class then a support class as it doesn't have a huge amount of support abilities to aid the party.

---

Idk about you, but I'm always using the songs >.> Depending on the situation of course. I've actually had a few other brds in my pts start copying me with using songs lol That's one let down that I see with other brds, they just spam their skills and most brds need to be told to use ballad. Seriously, not trying to put anyone down but if you're going to play brd, you need to see everything. Healers mp, depending on how long a fight is going on, maybe toss in TP+ to help the DD. If the healer's aren't looking to be low on mp or on trash mobs and you have some mages, throw on foe's. As Brd, I'm constantly looking all over my UI at things to check if something needs to be done.

Tbh, regen, atk+, def+ songs would be nice. Maybe even eva+

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

That's because most bards are bad <.<

Don't get me wrong, but a bard who is *pewpew* killing mobs isn't a good bard. A good bard will always have a little song to give to ease his comrades' life while rampaging in Eorzea's dungeons, as long as he has the mp for it.

I consider myself a pretty decent bard, I have yet to see a single party where healers ran out of mp even with multiple raises, TP isn't a problem as I usually burn mine faster than anyone and gets army's ready, and casters love my debuffs. But all that come at a cost, and I have an awful dps (still better than tanks in dps stance, thanksfully). Parse me, and you'll lock me out of the party forever. Yet you'll lose a great support if you do that.

I think what the bard needs most is a real occasion to use his songs. Out of speedruns and raids, there is nothing much to do where my art is needed.

---

^ All of this. Brd was intended to be light DD leaning more into support, but SE kind of forced everything that's not a healer/tank to be a DD. Some people don't realize that with your lowered damage, you're actually helping the pt overall. But most seem to only care about their epeen and seeing "high" number

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taban

If you're constantly singing in dungeons, you're doing it wrong. Don't get me wrong, ballad is great when things go to hell, or a healer dies and needs a quick pick me up. But your job is to dps, most healers have decent enough mp management they don't need your songs outside of specific situations. Singing when they don't need it is just needlessly lowering your dps.

---

It's not about singing all the time. It's about singing all the time that's needed. The difference is huge.

Bards have access to a lot of offensive CDs to help while they are singing.
It's not a coincidence if furious strikes have a 20% damage buff, while your songs are lowering your damages by 20%. That's 20 seconds of free song without any dps loss. Also, hawk's eye gives a nice help for that. With internal release, you can have a never ending rain of bloodletter procs. and B4B also gives a little extra.

I believe these buffs aren't here to satisfy bards' epeen. they are here to compensate the lowered damages while singing.

As for "useless songs", ballad gives the healer to go rampage with holy/ DoT without worrying too much about MP management for a few GCDs, which isn't neglictable in SRs, or to give some raises/come back to life without too much trouble (but again, out of SRs and raids, that's pretty useless as they can do all that without MP problems)
Paeon allows the physical dps to go rampage in heavy AoE situations
Foe is the most useful song you have due to its total awesomeness without compensation. tbh, I would gladly eat the 20% damage debuff considering how much the mages (any of them, DDs or healers) love to wreck things when Foe is up, and how much more efficient than me they are when doing so.

The real problem here is that SE made the bard out of his support role by just making it dps (I know that he would be alone as a support, thus exclusive, thus rarer than tanks, etc... not the point), and only giving him some songs which people do not care of, and which they cannot find a real use if they want to bother.
Sadly, without forcing it by doing SRs or Coil, only Foe will come in handy.


TL;DR :
You're a bard, a buffer, a support SE made dps because there is only ONE support at the moment in FFxiv. That does not make you a dps. Be more useful to your party and sing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

.

---

As a main WHM I fully agree. I wish more BRDs (not only BRDs but players in general) would think about the DPS as a whole party and not their own DPS against others.

If a BRD knows when to use songs I can easily spam holy (ballad) for 900+ dmg per mob (Foe), which speeds the run by A LOT than it would with me sitting and healing the tank while the BRD DPS for 200 dmg per mob and runs out of TP in a min.

Already said neeevermind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razzle

As a main WHM I fully agree. I wish more BRDs (not only BRDs but players in general) would think about the DPS as a whole party and not their own DPS against others.

---

Hopefully it catches on :/ But judging how people are on mmos these days, SE could release a job that has ~3 attacks and the rest are buffs, yet people would still only spam those attacks. What bugs me though is when theres another brd in the pt and I have ballad up and still over 60% of my mp and the other brd decides to throw his/her's up too. Yeah, it can be an accident, but like I said before, if you're going to play brd, look at everything, including the other pt's buffs if you have another brd in the pt.

One more thing about some brds that I notice. Watch your enmity bar and use quelling. Theres been far too many brds (or just other people in general) who go all out and pull hate off the tank and instead of stopping what they're doing to let the tank get hate, they just keep at it :/ But that's a whole other topic lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obysuca

Hopefully it catches on :/ But judging how people are on mmos these days, SE could release a job that has ~3 attacks and the rest are buffs, yet people would still only spam those attacks

---

Yeah, well I think this is also partly because all the Archer class lovers have no choice but pick the BRD class and they are used from other games to DD with it which make them ignore songs fully unless the WHM shouts "ballad prz" and dies while typing XD

As for me, I always commend a BRD that knows when to play songs, I mean, just like healer all you need to do is watch the party bars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razzle

As for me, I always commend a BRD that knows when to play songs, I mean, just like healer all you need to do is watch the party bars.

---

Wish I'd pt with you as my brd lol

The other day I got into a roulette, did all my songs perfectly, no one needing to ask for a song etc, even silenced things that can be silenced just to help out the pt, the other brd kinda lacked on this. Got 0 commendations lol

Theres times I want to fully gear brd as my main, just to show people how it's done and maybe they'll think "Oh, that's nice, maybe I should try that" >.>;

Let's not give Bards more support responsibilities please; most of them don't even use their current abilities, meaning any new addition will also have to be yelled in caps several times in /party before you can actually benefit from it.

If a second dedicated dps job was added to archer, I would say that BRD needs a bunch more critical support abilities. But I don't think the current playerbase could handle more key support abilities...most bards right now can barely use what they have.

I think the speed-things-up song that bards have right now should be allowed in battle, and also caste a haste buff on skill and casting speeds. Have it drain mana like the other songs so that bards are discouraged from using it ALL the time, but can you imagine how nice it would be to have this for groups struggling on Titan?

NB4 "Titan is so easy." Great, it's easy for you. It's not easy for everyone. Ability to run a bit faster would help a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obysuca

Wish I'd pt with you as my brd lol

The other day I got into a roulette, did all my songs perfectly, no one needing to ask for a song etc, even silenced things that can be silenced just to help out the pt, the other brd kinda lacked on this. Got 0 commendations lol

---

so a party of 1 tank 1 healer and 2 bard u singed perfectly...what exactly?

ballad if the healer had low mp¿? thats not perfectly thats normal...its like saying that as whm i buffed perfectly ...i casted protect.

if u casted everything the other bard probably didnt bother casting any song at all....

p.s dont get me wrong im thankfull , when bards cast their songs when i play healer/caster (brd its my main) , guess im so used to play brd that never notices others bard not singing anything at all :S ,but expecting commendations for using your skills? guess we should give healers a commendation always because they use cure :P

Bard needs nothing added to it. It is the easiest job to play by far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

ballad if the healer had low mp¿? thats not perfectly thats normal...its like saying that as whm i buffed perfectly ...i casted protect.

---

you cut down the part of you message I wanted to quote :p

It's not about being praised for doing our bard's job. To put it simply, it would be the same as a tank never using any defensive CD. Sure you can still manage to win somehow, but that tank wouldn't be doing his job and would probably end up being yelled at. A bard never singing should be exactly the same, as he isn't doing his job either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chickenbacca

Bard needs nothing added to it. It is the easiest job to play by far.

---

Not sure if serious. All jobs are easy to play. I could play half of them blindfold, and I haven't really tried the other half at all.

Being good at playing them though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obysuca

Got 0 commendations lol

---

awww ( ' ^ '

Well maybe 3 or 2 of them were in the same party and couldn't commend... who knows XD

I agree the Bard needs music that applies to more than just resource and a buff to mages dps.

Would be nice to see some utility, debuff, and damaging songs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inosaska

The bard in this game is more of a DPS class then a support class as it doesn't have a huge amount of support abilities to aid the party.

---

Bard is actually more of a support Job than it is a dps Job. The whole point behind the Bards Songs is the melodies which give support to healers, melee. and mages.

The dps comes from the "Archer" class abilities not the "Bard" job abilities.

So I propose the bard healing limit break be song related.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

so a party of 1 tank 1 healer and 2 bard

---

Actually, 8 people

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

guess we should give healers a commendation always because they use cure :P

---

Thing is, people actually do that lol Tanks/healers get most of their commendations just for being a tank or healer. Try being a DD, you'll rarely ever get a commendation, no matter how good you are. One time I went to lvl whm, decided to be lazy and just regen people (you know, unless they actually got hit), got 3 commendations >.> For just hitting ONE skill lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

ballad if the healer had low mp¿? thats not perfectly thats normal...its like saying that as whm i buffed perfectly ...i casted protect.

if u casted everything the other bard probably didnt bother casting any song at all....

---

Using it without being told to, unlike 98% of brds who have to be yelled at in chat to use ballad. And no, the brd did nothing, no foe, no ballad, nothing, even when I was out of mp, he just stood there "pew pewing"

As nice as Haste is, it's pretty much OP in every game it's in to the point where it becomes a necessity, and if it isn't a necessity then it makes fights trivial. If that happens then any future support jobs are going to need to have Haste just to be able to compete.

You only really need to look at it in F11 to see why they are very hesitant about it.

They released a headpiece for all jobs that had Haste on it and that became a required piece of gear for all jobs for several years. It was silly seeing everyone in-game with a turban.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RogueSpecter

And that is why it needs more (job based) abilities! Having only 3 major songs is kinda lame.... 2 of which are only useful if coordinating with party. Which brings me to my next point! Army's Paeon, why is there no TP meter to see in game for PARTY?

---

This. So very, very much this...

It would be nice to have some more support abilities.

As for the ones we have. You should only be using songs when necessary, which honestly isn't all that often. Keep foe up if there is a caster in the group and ballad if healer has low mp. If you are doing it right and have invigorate you should rarely (if ever) need paeon; I think I may have used it a couple times during brayflox speed runs. I have even had healers ask me to take ballad off because they can manage their MP pool and didn't want to hurt DPS (he/she was hell of a healer btw).

I would love to see more useful songs, but the ones we have outside of foe (when a caster is in the group) are very situational. If you have a song up more than 50% of the time and there is no caster in the party; someone is doing something wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obysuca

Try being a DD, you'll rarely ever get a commendation, no matter how good you are.

---

I have 207 commendations and I only play BRD in dungeons.

Communicating dungeon mechanics and playing your job properly help a lot.

Best commendation: 7/7 in Crystal Tower.

;)

You guys forget we still haven't even had our first level cap raise yet. Bards will feel a bit more "supporty" at level 80+ with 4-5 new songs. Hell, you may even see all the songs suggested in this thread added. It's likely the first level cap raise will be to 60 at a minimum, and thus, you'll be getting 2 additional job abilities (which, if it were me designing the job, would be an HoT song and a -def song) on top of class skills.