What's the afterlife like for Eorzeans?

I noticed yesterday for the FATE "Book of Pride" (Southern Thanalan) that on the description it mentioned freeing the souls of the tempered so they could get to the Lifestream. Is this a real place for Eorzeans, or just a myth? Is it supposed to be just like the Lifestream from FF7, or something completely different?

Nald'thal is said to have power over the underworld, would his domain be completely separate from the Lifestream or are they both the same place?

http://s14.postimg.org/wsusi25r5/Book_Of_Pride_Shot.png

There seems to be little mentioned exactly what Eorzeans believe as to what they think awaits them after death, and what was mentioned in 1.0 seems to have been retconned. In 1.0 it was generally just called 'the Afterlife' literally, and for all intents and purposes, appears to be similar to the pseudo-Judeo-Christian idea of Heaven. The idea at least has some belief amongst Eorzeans, as my Path Companion mentioned it in 1.0, as shown:

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Originally Posted by version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Lord Errant'

"We would surely be enjoying each other's company in the Afterlife, even now, if they did not have plans for us."

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Plus, in the original 1.0 opening for the Gridania storyline, Yda, after awakening in a serene field of flowers, at first mistakenly believes herself to be dead and in the Afterlife, which she calls 'the Great Beyond', (she even mistakes the player's character for a spirit guide, calling him or her a 'psychopomp'), although Papalymo quickly and sarcastically makes her see sense:

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Originally Posted by version 1.0 Gridanian opening

Papalymo: "Where are we? Near Gridania you think?"
Yda: "The quiet, the calm, the beautiful flowers. There's only one place it could be!"
Yda: "The great beyond! I do believe we're dead Papalymo!"
Papalymo: "Oh Rhalgr take you and your great beyond!"
Yda (noticing the player): "See? Look, here's a psychopomp come to guide us along!"
Papalymo (noticing a pack of wolves advancing on them): "And what would that make them? Your dearly departed childhood pets come to play fetch?!"

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Ironically, Yda actually paraphrased this later in the Gridania storyline after they take an Echo trip with the player:

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Originally Posted by version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Beckon of the Elementals'

Yda: "Pinch me Papalymo, I do believe I may be dead again."
Papalymo: "No, this is no great beyond Yda. It was the past we saw! Twelve be good! It was the past! By some strange power, or someones'"

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However, as you noted, ARR seems to have tried to retcon this into an FFVII-reference with the idea of the Lifestream being brought in to also be a convenient label to the mass of aether within Hydaelyn. This however doesn't seem to sit right to me, and just seems too contradictory (the aether within the planet was referred to in 1.0 but never called anything other than 'the river of aether' or simply 'the aether'.) Considering Yoshi-P admitted his favourite FF game is FFVII, this is probably more a case of author appeal too, as well as being just another example of fanservice referencing, given FFXIV is full of references and in-jokes to past FF games, rather than a direct attempt to make it similar to FFVII's Lifestream (after all, materia in FFXIV is completely different to the FFVII version too).

Also from what I remember, Ul'dahns in ARR seem to follow the idea from version 1.0, referring to the dead inhabiting 'Thal's Halls', which although seeming to share similarities with the Christian idea of heaven, also seems to be somewhat like the Norse idea of Valhalla, a place of merriment, endless drinking and jousting. Hence, it seems to me there's little agreement on exactly what is the common belief in the hereafter in Eorzea, making the 'Lifestream' references even more puzzling. But I digress.

EDIT: There was a thread in the old forum where Ferne explained a possible make-up of the metaphysical realms in FFXIV, which I'll try to find, but from what I can gather, Eorzeans believe that besides the corporeal or physical world, there is also the metaphysical or aetherial plane - this basically consists of a nameless 'realm of the gods' (where the Twelve were believed to inhabit), a nameless 'Afterlife' where the spirits of the dead resided, along with Seven Hells, similar to the idea of the Seven Cycles of Hell mentioned by Dante in his Divine Comedy. And below this, is the formless emptiness called 'the Void'.

I'll try looking for the thread in question and post what Ferne said on the subject here, as it technically contradicts the idea of the Lifestream being used in ARR.

It only somewhat contradicts the use of the 'lifestream'. We know the Lifestream is real, because that's how Aetherytes work (Titan section of Main Scenario), I presume Anima in 1.0 was replaced by the direct use of the Lifestream in ARR. I think the Lifestream might be the word for the aethereal realm, or perhaps it is coexistent?

There have been some interesting speculations as to how valid the religion of the Twelve is, but assuming it, and the afterlife, are true I would presume that the Lifestream is a way to transition a soul from the material to the aethereal realm.

One way to think of it might be that the Lifestream is a bridge that allows souls to progress and eventually reincarnate (we suspect the Archons reincarnate, at least), and since the Seventh Era began Aetherytes use the Lifestream as a means of teleportation as well.

Of course, this is all just speculation, trying to reconcile the various Eorzean faiths.

At least some of the denizens fear the After, if we have only the song "Answers" to examine. "Why, given life, we are meant to die? Help us, hear our cry!"

It's practically Terran Human, that...

Well, fearing death is a rational apprehension, even for many religious people. And "Answers" is a very gloomy song, exploring the despair of the Seventh Umbral Era, so it fits pretty well.

Unfortunately, I can't remember EXACTLY where it came up, but what I've gathered from quests/FATE info/things like that is that the body returns to the Lifestream after death (see the end of the Alchemist questline), but the soul goes on to the afterlife, hence all the references to "Thal's halls". So the body dissolves into aether, while the soul continues on, at least in the beliefs of those who follow the Twelve.

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Originally Posted by Rennah

Unfortunately, I can't remember EXACTLY where it came up, but what I've gathered from quests/FATE info/things like that is that the body returns to the Lifestream after death (see the end of the Alchemist questline), but the soul goes on to the afterlife, hence all the references to "Thal's halls". So the body dissolves into aether, while the soul continues on, at least in the beliefs of those who follow the Twelve.

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That is roughly what I understand too from various quests that I've done. It's also something we see all the time at the end of dungeons, when a defeated boss monster would collapse and go *poof* — their bodies dissolve into the aether upon death. And their souls, in some cases, get absorbed. It's certainly what a lot of adventurers would now be doing as players progress along their Animus quests.

The problem with this observation, however, is that some Eorzeans apparently bury the bodies of their dead. The Church of Saint Adama, for example, runs a graveyard that is apparently overflowing with bodies. We don't know how the sylphs handle their burials, but they do apparently carry out some ritual with the remains of their brethen, otherwise you wouldn't have had to take one body back to Little Solace for burial after the massacre at the Waking Sands.

So... it's bizarre. I don't know why bodies sometimes go *poof* and sometimes not. Final Fantasy lore, in general, is pretty messy about what happens to characters and non-player characters upon death. It's not an ambiguity unique to FFXIV.

Judging by Raubahn's language at the battle of Cartenau, there are at least seven hells.

Dont monsters among other things just vanish because they are void sent? Part of the other crystal?

We need to remember that we are dealing with peoples's perception of the afterlife rather than reality. Much like how on Earth not everyone follows the concept of St Peter at the Pearly Gates, not everyone in Eorzea follows the same traditions.

It is the followers of the Order of Nald'thal that believe that I... I mean Thal... rules over the realm of the dead. Seperate to that is the concept of the seven hells and the Black Warden.

You may want to have a look-in on this old thread.

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Originally Posted by Rennah

Unfortunately, I can't remember EXACTLY where it came up, but what I've gathered from quests/FATE info/things like that is that the body returns to the Lifestream after death (see the end of the Alchemist questline), but the soul goes on to the afterlife, hence all the references to "Thal's halls". So the body dissolves into aether, while the soul continues on, at least in the beliefs of those who follow the Twelve.

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Not really into the lore, but I also remember that Aether is the life and magic in Eorzea, just like Lifestream in FF7. When a person dies in FF14, he/she disappears physically and returns to the planet as Aether.

Turn 9 end cutscene and dialogue actually gives more info about death and aether. Spoiler alert.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

When a person dies in FF14, he/she disappears physically and returns to the planet as Aether.

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Then why would Eorzeans need graveyards or ossuries?

How do we explain the existence of walking skeletons and zombies? Such remains should have gone *poof* into the aether once the original individuals died but, clearly, they did not, allowing some necromancer to revive them for nefarious deeds.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Then why would Eorzeans need graveyards or ossuries?

How do we explain the existence of walking skeletons and zombies? Such remains should have gone *poof* into the aether once the original individuals died but, clearly, they did not, allowing some necromancer to revive them for nefarious deeds.

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Which I do not know, and it's indeed a mystery. For FF14, read around that aether is released when people die and return to the aether network. When Nael Deus Darnus dies in T9, it simply turned into aether and disappears.

Weird thing is, discrepancies existed in FF7 too. When Zack died in Crisis Core, we did not see him turn into lifestream and return to the planet - whereas when Kadaj died, it turned into lifestream and returned :rolleyes:

Heaven(s) are mentioned though in a couple of places offhand - Yugiri says "Heavens forfend" when confronted with Leviathan in the English version - an exclamation which I found juxtaposed to the common "Seven hells!" of Eorzeans; Moogle/King Moggle Mog mentions 'Heaven' as part of the mythos and folklore behind him.

Not really bringing anything major to this conversation, but those are two different cultures in Hydaelyn (Moogle and Othardian/Far Eastern) where a concept of heaven is present.

I think people are mistaking things 'disappearing' due to mechanical reasons with things 'disappearing' for lore reasons.
The bodies DON'T disappear, we just don't deal with them, usually.

For one of the main storyline quests, we schlep several bodies to a cart for disposal and burial.
For at least one of the Hildibrand quests, we follow a trail of corpses.
For that alchemist quest, that body was laying around for over five years, probably preserved since it was no worse for the wear. It 'dissolved' more or less for thematic reasons, possibly because it returned to the dust it should have been when it ran out of magical mischief to hold it together.

In short, the bodies hit the floor, the spirits within hit the door. Their 'spirit' would return to the aether, if nothing else. The body just gets buried or fed to the Ul'Dah refugees.

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Originally Posted by gornotck

The body just gets buried or fed to the Ul'Dah refugees.

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Soylent Green is... never mind.

The NPC at the bottom of Witchdrop claims to believe that the righteous will be with Halone when they die. That an Ishgardian believes such isn't surprising. Several Ul'dah NPCs reference Thal's Realm. I believe this was particularly true in the 1.0 Thaumaturge questline, where you were charged with enacting the revenge wills of those who had paid for and entrusted such wills to the guild. There does seem to be an ever-increasing amount of evidence that the soul in FFXIV is Aether. And so, from the lifestream of aether we come and to the lifestream of aether we return. With this in mind, the fact that Primals gorge themselves on aether which will not be restored takes on a whole new and much darker meaning: It would mean that primals are, in essence, devouring the souls of the departed to sustain their existence in the physical world.

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Originally Posted by Saikou

There does seem to be an ever-increasing amount of evidence that the soul in FFXIV is Aether. And so, from the lifestream of aether we come and to the lifestream of aether we return. With this in mind, the fact that Primals gorge themselves on aether which will not be restored takes on a whole new and much darker meaning: It would mean that primals are, in essence, devouring the souls of the departed to sustain their existence in the physical world.

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And then we have that lovely action-packed cutscene from the 2.2 main quest...where Leviathan devours the Sahagan Priest after he becomes an Aetheric being...

This most recent patch itself teaches us how the soul is not always bound to the body. The gift of eternity is evidence of that.
And since Leviathan consumes his disciple's soul as if it were aether, it is a strong indication of that the soul is made of.

Unrelated:

To all of my children in whom life flows abundant.
To all of my children to whom death has passed its judgement.
The soul yearns for honour and the flesh the hereafter.
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after.

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Originally Posted by gornotck

I think people are mistaking things 'disappearing' due to mechanical reasons with things 'disappearing' for lore reasons.
The bodies DON'T disappear, we just don't deal with them, usually.

For one of the main storyline quests, we schlep several bodies to a cart for disposal and burial.
For at least one of the Hildibrand quests, we follow a trail of corpses.
For that alchemist quest, that body was laying around for over five years, probably preserved since it was no worse for the wear. It 'dissolved' more or less for thematic reasons, possibly because it returned to the dust it should have been when it ran out of magical mischief to hold it together.

In short, the bodies hit the floor, the spirits within hit the door. Their 'spirit' would return to the aether, if nothing else. The body just gets buried or fed to the Ul'Dah refugees.

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Nael Deus Darnus's body just totally dissipates into aether.

Nael Deus 'Ex Machina' Darnus's body was also a construct made entirely for the purpose of holding the aethersoul of the tempered. Why would it stick around? You could say that it was made ENTIRELY out of aether.

This isnt related to the afterlife I suppose but

I had a lalafell retainer in 1.0 called Bibireze (default suggested name) who I replaced for a miqo'te in 2.0.

I suppose after he lost his job he ran off to fight Ifrit and it didnt work out for him. Now I feel bad.

It isn't impossible for the Faiths of the Twelve to be wrong about the afterlife. I mean, we can assume most people aren't as familiar with the Lifestream as you are, so believing in something else is entirely possible even if you have observed and understand a different idea of what happens when someone dies. Do members of the Circle of Knowing ever discuss the afterlife, really? Because we learn from the main quest that they're experts in the behavior of the Lifestream.

I wonder if the body dissolving into aether is directly related to how much aether a being has in life; the more you have, the more likely you would dissolve (life-force holding the aether together dissipates, causing the aether to disperse, and there isn't much else to hold what's left of you together). Maybe its similar to how "normal" people can't just teleport anywhere they want like we can. I mean, we definitely disperse into aether when we die, but we are revived due to some other force/gameplay mechanic.

FFXIV: A Reference Reborn. :)

Well if you think back at the Halloween event, all saints wake. This is when the dead saints dine with the 12, alluding to some form of afterlife.

Every time I get close some one resurrects me

I WANT TO GO TO PARADISE!

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Originally Posted by Ddmk

Every time I get close some one resurrects me

I WANT TO GO TO PARADISE!

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<Gate Guardian> "I swear I might as well install a revolving door. Friggin' adventurers. In. Out. In. Out. In. Out. If I hooked it up to a generator I could solve all our power issues..."</Gate Guardian>