2.25 Where are the Balance Changes/PvP Adjustments

And why so few QoL Changes?

We can read maps on our Mounts now, I appreciate that but...

No Party Roulette, no Companion during Queue, no tweaks to the PvP System whatsoever.

I read in multiple places that there would be Adjustments, not simply Additions.

And specifically in 2.25.

I thought you guys were being so tight-lipped about 2.25 because you were going to be surprising us somehow, instead we got Atmas in a different tint & PvP Rank 40 with no further Adjustments to the system.

Don't get me wrong, I love what you've added in the form of the new PvP Gear... it just feels like what little was pitched, wasn't even lived up to, you know?

I just want to share my disappointment in the hopes that you'll consider being more careful with your advertisements for patches.

Thank you for your considerations, keep up the good work SE.

PvP is now adjusted by having you get even more facerolled by people with good gear/abilities.

That is it for at least the next two months.

Hope you like endless queues...

companion during queue is 2.3 they clearly said that in one of there videos or letters. new pvp which is frontlines is 2.3 also. roulette are suppose to be queued solo to fill in for roles which are needed and wont be ever tended for full party.
so stuff u are asking for comes in a future patch but guess u wouldnt know that cause u dont read letters or watch the videos.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

PvP is now adjusted by having you get even more facerolled by people with good gear/abilities.

That is it for at least the next two months.

Hope you like endless queues...

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I really hope a less Abstract 2.25 Patch Notes comes out soon that demonstrates Diminishing Returns has been added to CC in PvP... as well, that the Wolf Mark cost of i70-i90 PvP Gear has been drastically reduced... and that Wolf Marks are now additionally granted upon PvP Challenge Log completions... lastly, that a baseline Morale value has been added for new entrants, with Morale overall being slightly reduced in value to compensate for the default bonus.

Finally, that they add ilvl Syncing Queues for PvP at level 50 (e.g. level 50 ilvl 55-69, 70-84, 85-99, 100~ brackets).

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

PvP is now adjusted by having you get even more facerolled by people with good gear/abilities.

That is it for at least the next two months.

Hope you like endless queues...

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actually that wont be it for 2 months due to fact next month when 2.28 comes out relic quest will continue so its actually only one month. then the month after that is 2.3

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Originally Posted by kaya_suzumiya

companion during queue is 2.3 they clearly said that in one of there videos or letters. new pvp which is frontlines is 2.3 also. roulette are suppose to be queued solo to fill in for roles which are needed and wont be ever tended for full party.
so stuff u are asking for comes in a future patch but guess u wouldnt know that cause u dont read letters or watch the videos.

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Please, you don't have to be so rude. I was illustrating a point, I'm aware a few of those listed items in particular are coming with 2.3. Part of my insinuation was that they could've expedited a lot of those line-items given how little they put into 2.25 in terms of QoL at least.

For the curious, this is how to fix the current massive gear gap (which just got larger) while maintaining a gear advantage to the high rank players (which, while I don't agree with, does seem to be the popular decision);

1. PvE gear, when equipped, is automatically replaced with the stats of the lowest tier of PvP equipment.
* this prevents "power overflow" where PvE gear becomes much more powerful than PvP gear and either warrants hasty implimentation of new PvP gear (like this) or PvE players dominating PvP with PvE gear.
* this makes all tiers of PvP gear useful
* this reduces the barrier of entry to newer players who will jump straight in with functional gear
* this potentially allows you to make PvP gear much weaker in PvE (it should not be best in slot for PvE at any point like some pieces were before 2.2) without risking PvE gear destroying PvP

2. The Morale stat is now normalised across all tiers of PvP gear
* This stat is FAR too powerful to have it increasing. By normalising this one stat, you will still provide high geared players with a significant in advantage in other stats, but not a stat which simultaneously boosts their damage and mitigation to absurd levels

Tentative 3. Do something about the skill system so that you acquire a few skills earlier. Or hell, just revamp it completely. Have all abilities unlocked from the start and just have the points serve as "capacity" - this prevents players being locked into one PvP role too, increasing fun and potential participation (as well as allowing more flexibility in playing with friends etc)

My biggest gripe with pvp atm is sprint. A team of casters (especially pet classes) is going to beat the @#$%ing balls off of a melee oriented team as they have a massive speed boost 2/3 of the time with 0 penalty for doing so. And, ya know, the fact they have the best CC as well to top it off.

I definitely think you should get a full 3 points for hitting Rank I.

I also think upgrading a PvP Action should only cost 1 point.

To compensate for the disparity with the addition of more points, they could up the upgrades to 5 per Action (instead of 3).

That'd at least make it a lot more interesting, you could have Pacify after your first match, and more customization throughout.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

My biggest gripe with pvp atm is sprint. A team of casters (especially pet classes) is going to beat the @#$%ing balls off of a melee oriented team as they have a massive speed boost 2/3 of the time with 0 penalty for doing so. And, ya know, the fact they have the best CC as well to top it off.

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I'm pretty sure you need one Melee and one Ranged DPS to get in to PvP.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

My biggest gripe with pvp atm is sprint. A team of casters (especially pet classes) is going to beat the @#$%ing balls off of a melee oriented team as they have a massive speed boost 2/3 of the time with 0 penalty for doing so. And, ya know, the fact they have the best CC as well to top it off.

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I actually disagree on this. I stick to enemy casters so easily with my MNK.

Fists of Wind, Sprint+Invigorate, Axe Kick, Shoulder Tackle, & Weapon Throw.

Dragoons are jumping fiends too.

It takes getting used to, but PvP is actually ridiculously well balanced in this game once you figure out the 'meta' & how to conquer the cheese-tactics (sleep/sprint).

Sprint is a necessary evil so long as damage 100% interrupts casters. I would support removing Sprint if you also make only Stuns/silences interrupt.

I don't quite understand.
People complain about things like Sprint and Sleeps in PvP when there are clearly effective ways of dealing with these (there are 3 PvP Abilities that can erase Sprint on a target, One Ilm Punch does so as well, Line of Sighting and stacking resist materia/food works quite well against CC as well as coordinated teamwork and your healer being on top of his game and actually using Leeches/Esuna to wake you)
The Resistance food and materia didn't get added to the game as well to look pretty. The solution might not be as forward as getting easy tools to drag everyone down on the same level as you want it to be, that doesn't mean there aren't already ways to deal with several scenarios inside the arena tho.

Inb4 getting flamed for stating facts about PvP a lot of people love to trivialize/ignore

Edit: The idea of creating seperate queues for different grades of PvP equipment would be quite interesting but with the current queue times/participation of PvP that would be like beating a dead horse with a stick and further making PvP uninteresting for people

@Jaeral, I agree... almost everyone who criticizes the PvP in this game quit it after just a short handful of matches and never looked back. Generally speaking, if 'they' actually took the time to dabble in what the system has to offer, learn the tactics, or utilize the gear... they might like it. It's far more balanced that WoW is in PvP, even today. For one...

Yeah, the queue times are horrid... so while the idea is nice (and my own), it would definitely have to come along with better incentive to drive up participation so queue times wouldn't further suffer. The new gear is sick but I don't think it's going to convince too many people to grind all the way to Rank 40, especially anyone who was already dissuaded from PvP.

Without adjustments, 2.25 will be just sort of a dead-end/failure in regard to PvP.

As a PvP'r I had high hopes for this patch. I am very dissapointed.

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Originally Posted by Clessx

As a PvP'r I had high hopes for this patch. I am very dissapointed.

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Yeah... I'd at least like to have read a reduction in Wolf Mark cost for the i90 gear, and perhaps a slight revamp of the Rank System (anything is only obtainable every 3 Ranks... whaaat... lame).

The new gear will make a lot of people new to PvP at least try it out. Once they start realizing how long the grind to Rank 40 is tho, they'll surely stop it as fast again.
The system that SE has in place to currently seperate different ranks from playing with each other didn't seem very effective the past weeks but then again that might have been due to the amount of people actually queueing lol

Effectively it will just be more meat for the meat grinder of R30s getting to R40 tho :(
Kinda sad since PvP in this game is so much fun once you get into it.
Not on a base level of "I want gear handed to me and just zerg the enemy camp with my 20 over-geared buddies" style but in the style of actually having to put thought and preperation into your strategy/kill order/gear and materia choices/PvP point distribution.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Yeah... I'd at least like to have read a reduction in Wolf Mark cost for the i90 gear, and perhaps a slight revamp of the Rank System (anything is only obtainable every 3 Ranks... whaaat... lame).

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Yeah, a reduction in the wolf mark cost would certainly speed up the grind. I like the Rank system tho. You actually can't just buy everything but have to carefully try out and consider which abilities and ability upgrades will provide a benefit to you(not every choice is straightforward and often has to be learnt/discovered based on your playstyle first) :)

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Originally Posted by Jaeral

The new gear will make a lot of people new to PvP at least try it out. Once they start realizing how long the grind to Rank 40 is tho, they'll surely stop it as fast again.
The system that SE has in place to currently seperate different ranks from playing with each other didn't seem very effective the past weeks but then again that might have been due to the amount of people actually queueing lol

Effectively it will just be more meat for the meat grinder of R30s getting to R40 tho :(
Kinda sad since PvP in this game is so much fun once you get into it.
Not on a base level of "I want gear handed to me and just zerg the enemy camp with my 20 over-geared buddies" style but in the style of actually having to put thought and preperation into your strategy/kill order/gear and materia choices/PvP point distribution.

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Yeah, I'm Rank 15 as of recent... just started getting into it big within the last week... and I'm realizing so much potential, "seeing it now" if you will, and loving it.

The twitch nature of it too is really exciting, and there's a ton more strategy against harder opponents than simply "zerg the healer" or "zerg the black mage"... you really have to get tactical.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Yeah, I'm Rank 15 as of recent... just started getting into it big within the last week... and I'm realizing so much potential, "seeing it now" if you will, and loving it.

The twitch nature of it too is really exciting, and there's a ton more strategy against harder opponents than simply "zerg the healer" or "zerg the black mage"... you really have to get tactical.

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Rank 15 myself haha :)
I started getting big into it once i discovered the artwork for the PvP armor they have planned so i'm actually very excited about this update.
I personally love the matches that keep going on for 5-10 minutes where each side struggles for control over the enemy and every mistake of yours gets exploited by the opponent. I find this far closer to being a fair PvP system than masses clashing against each other in the favoritized Battlegrounds (which always ends up just being a massive slaughterfest without any tactical depth).

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Originally Posted by Jaeral

Rank 15 myself haha :)
I started getting big into it once i discovered the artwork for the PvP armor they have planned so i'm actually very excited about this update.
I personally love the matches that keep going on for 5-10 minutes where each side struggles for control over the enemy and every mistake of yours gets exploited by the opponent. I find this far closer to being a fair PvP system than masses clashing against each other in the favoritized Battlegrounds (which always ends up just being a massive slaughterfest without any tactical depth).

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Same. Twinsies! Those 10 minute matches are so tense... I've had some clutch wins and losses, edge of my seat kind of action... it's especially fun when you're a MNK at 50% health & you've got an enemy DRG & WAR both still alive at 30% each... and you bring it home. Dem jukes.

Also, when you & an enemy WAR are at two hits til death a piece & you're waiting for that Shoulder Tackle and/or Second Wind to come back around... and you forget he has Tomahawk, and he Tomahawks your face & the match is lost.

I cracked up so hard, because I was trying to quickly calculate my next maneuver to bring home the win... and then, BLAM, beamed in the dome hard. Dead. I'm sure everyone was laughing lol.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Same. Twinsies! Those 10 minute matches are so tense... I've had some clutch wins and losses, edge of my seat kind of action... it's especially fun when you're a MNK at 50% health & you've got an enemy DRG & WAR both still alive at 30% each... and you bring it home. Dem jukes.

Also, when you & an enemy WAR are at two hits til death a piece & you're waiting for that Shoulder Tackle and/or Second Wind to come back around... and you forget he has Tomahawk, and he Tomahawks your face & the match is lost.

I cracked up so hard, because I was trying to quickly calculate my next maneuver to bring home the win... and then, BLAM, beamed in the dome hard. Dead. I'm sure everyone was laughing lol.

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Mhm and those are the kind of matches that make it worthwhile to keep re-entering :) Despite the queuetimes and sometimes horrible differences in ilvl.
After all each of those matches close the gap just a little bit further.

On top of that: The gear gap between PvP and PvE gear is non-existant in Lvl 30 and 40 matches because everyone gets synced down to the same equipment status.
A very good way of learning the ropes of PvP without getting horribly mutilated by the enemy.
Of course that doesn't have all the skills you have on Lvl 50 but i seriously doubt a player new to FFXIV's PvP would be able to utilize all of their abilities to the fullest inside the arena right away. Having a smaller skillset to get used to strategies without having to worry about rotations is actually beneficial in that way.

Yeah, 30 & 40 syncing can be really enjoyable simply due to the fact the gear is equalized.

That's more a reason I think ilvl/rank sync for level 50 should be in this game's future.

This alone could solve all the matchmaking inequalities & make it so new entrants wouldn't be thrust out so fast by a Rank 30 beating their face match after match hah.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Yeah, 30 & 40 syncing can be really enjoyable simply due to the fact the gear is equalized.

That's more a reason I think ilvl/rank sync for level 50 should be in this game's future.

This alone could solve all the matchmaking inequalities & make it so new entrants wouldn't be thrust out so fast by a Rank 30 beating their face match after match hah.

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If i remember correctly the 30 and 40 matches were designed with the goal to be able to gear up to i70 PvP gear and get experience with the system.
A full i90 group would still hurt quite a lot in Lvl50 but having full i70 actually starts making you competitive if your playstyle/strategy is up to the task(Edit: and also can be grinded quite fast, can easily get a full set before even reaching rank 15) :)

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Originally Posted by Jaeral

One Ilm Punch

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Yeah just gonna go ahead and use that melee ability on the target that is across the map hitting me with instant casts while they run full speed.

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Originally Posted by Jaeral

Line of Sighting

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Of course, it's so simple! Just don't get hit, then the bad mechanic can't effect you!

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

Sprint is a necessary evil so long as damage 100% interrupts casters.

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SMN pets don't give a crap, and SMN itself can just toss on some instant cast dots and then just ruin II you to death at max casting range.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

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All of the scenarios listed can be resolved by teamplay and proper approach.
SMNs are quite powerful inside there but i've also had matches where the other side has a full i90 PvP SMN and we still won :)

And yes, Line of sight -is- that simple. There is no point running through the middle of the arena if all that's happening is that you are making yourself a target.
On top of that the teams on both sides are fixed to always include one ranged DPS and one Melee.
Your words sound rather like you had some unpleasant experiences when PvP came out and now use this experience to extrapolate every other situation out of it.

I get it tho. You don't like PvP and you really don't have to. :) Don't make it sound tho like there aren't ways to deal with Mechanics like casters/sprint/CC when there are in fact quite a lot of ways that have been successfully used by a lot of PvPers.

One of the problems with PvP currently is how straightforward it is. They should consider adding a different style of PvP like Capture the Flag or something similar to Ballista from FFXI (not advocating just porting this in, but as an example). They have a far larger battlefield to deal with and you can't just size up your entire enemy team by looking at them prior to the fight. There's also probably more elements of strategy beyond "gank the shit out of that healer" and "kite like a bitch".

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Originally Posted by Airal

One of the problems with PvP currently is how straightforward it is. They should consider adding a different style of PvP like Capture the Flag or something similar to Ballista from FFXI (not advocating just porting this in, but as an example). They have a far larger battlefield to deal with and you can't just size up your entire enemy team by looking at them prior to the fight. There's also probably more elements of strategy beyond "gank the shit out of that healer" and "kite like a bitch".

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I agree. Currently the PvP is extremely straightforward often leading to similiar strategies and making differences in gear/skill of both sides quite noticeable.
Personally i'd love something more than just rehashed content from FFXI and WoW tho.
A real gladiator-style arena with traps you can lure enemies into or timed elements like walls or moving segments or even being able to climb certain scaffolding/areas to surprise the enemy from above would make things much much more interesting and are all within the game's natural elements.

I'm game for any kind of creativity they want to toss at us, as long as it's something different from what it currently is. I use the Capture the Flag example because it's a staple among most PvP that I've seen and a lot of people seem to enjoy and thrive in large-scale battlefields.

Yeah, Capture the flag is certainly an interesting model. :)
Personally i have a certain dislike of mass PvP or large-scale battlefields because it cultivates a sort of PvPer that effectively just hides in the mass to throw their spells/arrows/whatever without any real exposure to the enemy.
Those people will often denote themselves as Hardcore PvPers when in fact their individual skill is more than lacking :(

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Please, you don't have to be so rude. I was illustrating a point, I'm aware a few of those listed items in particular are coming with 2.3. Part of my insinuation was that they could've expedited a lot of those line-items given how little they put into 2.25 in terms of QoL at least.

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You ask someone else not to be rude, but your initial post is exceptionally rude. Please be less of a hypocrite.

Second, you cannot really speak to what they could or could not have expedited for 2.25 as you don't have access to what they are currently working on. Judging from this post and your other post regarding Atma, you clearly do not read the Live Letters that have answers to all your gripes, so Kaya isn't wrong. Unless the source is a Live Letter or from the community team, I would not believe any changes are coming. People speculate quite a lot about things and are inaccurate most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Tyce_Rousel

You ask someone else not to be rude, but your initial post is exceptionally rude. Please be less of a hypocrite.

Second, you cannot really speak to what they could or could not have expedited for 2.25 as you don't have access to what they are currently working on. Judging from this post and your other post regarding Atma, you clearly do not read the Live Letters that have answers to all your gripes, so Kaya isn't wrong. Unless the source is a Live Letter or from the community team, I would not believe any changes are coming. People speculate quite a lot about things and are inaccurate most of the time.

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Expressing disappointment & being rude are two very different things.

Please be more kind.

And yes, I can speak to what they could or could not have expedited for 2.25. It is a choice to expedite something, as it is a choice to favor alternative options in the process... they favored fancy new PvP gear over making Adjustments to PvP, that was a choice of theirs... they could've spent their resources elsewhere.

And I have read the Live Letters, I've read everything from the Devs, and any Official/Unofficial Announcements... along with all Famitsu+ translations I can get my hands on. So please, slander me more with a lie you're ignorant about.

Perhaps if you gave an example of how I "clearly do not read the Live Letters...", you'd appear credible, or I could respect you more. Rather than simply creating blanket statements to try to deface me.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Perhaps if you gave an example of how I "clearly do not read the Live Letters...", you'd appear credible, or I could respect you more. Rather than simply creating blanket statements to try to deface me.

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Yet I have found 2 strong examples of how things you are whining about have been answered via Live Letters. Being a martyr all the time must be hard.