What does Determination really do?

I've been trying to get this question answered for a long time, but after doing serious research on the internet the truth seems to be, nobody knows.

I've seen plenty of theories and some even come with some evidence. But most of those results always come inconclusive, and don't prove to be anymore then RNG coincidence.

Does anyone know for sure what exactly Determination does as a stat? What is it's primary function? Is it truly worth point investment for any class regardless of Offensive or Mental properties?

And if it truly does affect strength like the description claims, would it be better to stack the primary stat or the secondary stat? Is Determination truly worthwhile? Does it only affect Auto-Attacks and Heal Dots or does it affect more?

These're the kinds of things I would like to know about the stat Determination.

Thank you!

It affects all damage and healing that you do. It's a pretty strong stat, but it's still considered a secondary, main stats still do more.

It's a straight up damage/healing increase, forget the exact ratios, but it's something like x amount adds x% of healing/damage, it does not add str/mind/int/etc.

It effectively increases your base damage (formed by your primary stat + your weapon damage) which is then multiplied by a potency multiplier.

Did you want more detail?

Like the other secondary stats, the question you ask implies that it's a linear relation (but it isn't). E.g. look at skill speed. Let's say (it's pretty accurate in this example) that 10 point of skill speed decreases AA delay and GCD by .01. Then by adding 100, we've only decrease to 2.4, which is 2.5/2.4=4% increase. Adding another 100 on top of that decreases it to 2.3, BUT this doesn't increase dps by 4% (like the first 100) the new dps increase is 2.5/2.3=8.7%. And while will doubled stat investment, we've more than double the change to dps. So in other words, when dealing with secondary stats you can't assume a linear formula.

I believe DET is a multiplier of sorts for your main stat. The more of your main stat you have the more the same amount of det will do for you.

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Originally Posted by Psychosamm

I believe DET is a multiplier of sorts for your main stat. The more of your main stat you have the more the same amount of det will do for you.

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It's a straight damage/healing increase, which includes stat increases, weapon damage etc.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Like the other secondary stats, the question you ask implies that it's a linear relation (but it isn't). E.g. look at skill speed. Let's say (it's pretty accurate in this example) that 10 point of skill speed decreases AA delay and GCD by .01. Then by adding 100, we've only decrease to 2.4, which is 2.5/2.4=4% increase. Adding another 100 on top of that decreases it to 2.3, BUT this doesn't increase dps by 4% (like the first 100) the new dps increase is 2.5/2.3=8.7%. And while will doubled stat investment, we've more than double the change to dps. So in other words, when dealing with secondary stats you can't assume a linear formula.

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This is more or less right except that SS has no effect on AA delay, however, SS returns are nearly linear for practical purposes. As you can see the effect is very close to linear when adding 200 skill speed. In fact, the numbers stay pretty close to linear until you add about 2000 skill speed (going from 1900 skill speed to 2000 is a 20% increase, while going from 2000 to 2100 is a 25% increase). In any case, this is about determination, which acts much differently than skill speed.

Determination has been difficult to quantify exactly. Current formulas have determination adding .11 damage/determination for auto attacks (or about 1 damage every 9 determination) and .035 damage/determination for weapon skills (or about 1 damage every 28.5 determination). This is not entirely accurate, but it's close and can give you an idea of how determination affects damage dealt. If determination has multiplicative affects with main stat and/ or weapon damage in regards to damage dealt it's currently too slight to notice.

For healing, determination is much trickier (or perhaps in the actual formula the game uses it's not, but with testing that's been done and formulas created to match the results it is). Here is a fairly accurate representation of the cure I healing formula for a level 50 WHM. It is not the real formula, but it is over 99% accurate for stat levels that can currently be achieved:

Average HP Healed On L50 WHM = (Potency/300) x [((0.0114xMND + 0.00145xDTR + 0.3736) x Magic Damage) + (0.21xMND) + (0.11xDTR) + (0.00011316xMNDxDTR)]

As you can see, when healing determination seems to add the flat .11 hp healed per point as well as having a small multiplicative effect with both magic damage from your weapon and mind.

The above information came from here and is not my own work. It's all very interesting if you're into that sort of thing.

Yeah, nice site, that... I remember watching a few videos online that used it to further explain some damage calculations.

As for what determination does, I'm still going to repeat (yet again) what I have been suspecting since the beta days... I still (very tentatively) think it has something to do with how often you can get a Proc. Weird as it may sound, after looking at several variables, it seems quite plausible that it possibly affects the frequency in which Procs pop up for you in battles

/Shrugs... guess we'll figure it out eventually

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

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Huh? What do you mean affects procs? Do you mean crit hit procs? cuz that is affect by the critical hit ratio stat. Do you mean the procs for jobs when they get a free cast of a ability? Cuz for most jobs those procs are caused by doing a crit hit. Det works as many others have already stated, its a secondary direct modifier of dmg/healing

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Originally Posted by DoubleT

Huh? What do you mean affects procs? Do you mean crit hit procs? cuz that is affect by the critical hit ratio stat. Do you mean the procs for jobs when they get a free cast of a ability? Cuz for most jobs those procs are procced by doing a crit hit.

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Exactly one job (bard) get's procs from critical hits and only 3 total (bard, blm, whm) get procs at all.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Exactly one job (bard) get's procs from critical hits and only 3 total (bard, blm, whm) get procs at all.

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Scholar technically has two procs - a chance of a spell speed increase when your pet crits something (also applies to SMN), and a 15% chance of a free Succor when you use Sacred Soil.

As a response to Ramesses though, the direct description in game is: "Affects the amount of damage dealt by both physical and magic attacks, as well as the amount of HP restored by healing spells. Auto-attack potency is also affected." Therefore, I highly doubt it affects proc rates.

from what I understood from this thread: Det. does not increase healing from healers on me, is that right?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Exactly one job (bard) get's procs from critical hits and only 3 total (bard, blm, whm) get procs at all.

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Monk and Scholar also kinda have crit procs.
Crits grant a chakra for Monk, and an extra shield with Adloquium for Scholar.
It might be an effect rather than an ability, but it's still a proc.

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Originally Posted by hballamco

from what I understood from this thread: Det. does not increase healing from healers on me, is that right?

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That's right, it increases healing you do, not healing received.

Edit: misread

I see people are practicing for when the NEC job gets released.

Well this... was a bit of a thread revival. Now I feel a lot of lurkers will look over it, getting old or confusing information. This post will answer what it does as of now, 5.2, within this expansion.

Determination is the most simple of all the secondary starts. At level 80, every 25 Determination increases the healing you do and the damage you do by 0.1%.

That's all. You're done. Leave this thread and let it go in peace.

This is an old af thread from 2014. As such, BRD no longer has crit procs.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

Well this... was a bit of a thread revival. Now I feel a lot of lurkers will look over it, getting old or confusing information. This post will answer what it does as of now, 5.2, within this expansion.

Determination is the most simple of all the secondary starts. At level 80, every 25 Determination increases the healing you do and the damage you do by 0.1%.

That's all. You're done. Leave this thread and let it go in peace.

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And it's STILL better than Tenacity / Parry ever was.

Pretty sure that if you just read the tool tip it tells you what DET does....

"The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... Determination."
...
I see myself out :D

It makes you feel more determined.
That means you'll heal more and you'll do more damage. It's like saying "I'll try harder".
From what I understand, DHR isn't always guaranteed, and neither is Crit. However they both scale better than determination because determination is a constant effect.

Since it was mentioned Determination is still better than Tenacity, what kind of numbers does Tenacity generate?

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Originally Posted by AduroT

Since it was mentioned Determination is still better than Tenacity, what kind of numbers does Tenacity generate?

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At 80, every 33 tenacity equates to the tank taking -0.1% less damage, as well as increases the damage the tank does by +0.1%, and the healing they produce by +0.1%.

This site is a good place for specific intervals: http://allaganstudies.akhmorning.com/

They should probably just state the multipliers the stats do in the character menu. Otherwise, you'd have to rely on parsers to figure that out, and risk the "PaRsErS aRe ToXiC" crowd coming after you.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

They should probably just state the multipliers the stats do in the character menu. Otherwise, you'd have to rely on parsers to figure that out, and risk the "PaRsErS aRe ToXiC" crowd coming after you.

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To be nitpicky, data mining. I dont disagree though.

Theres no attainable values of any secondary stat that would allow you to accurately parse the stat to each breakpoint, especially since it uses breakpoints and not a linear or exponential scale. Every single breakpoint is within a fraction of an allowable deviation of both the previous and the following breakpoints.