Best DPSing "Class" discussion

Now, this is here for the sake of argument, and removing the current meta from everyones head in this thread.

Now, I leave you all with one question. If you were to have all the Cross Class Skills for all classes, and were to DPS with one role in particular, which class would come up on top.

King of DPS, definitely is Brd. Regardless having all cross class skills or removing all cross class skills. ^^;

Assuming the bard knows the optimal rotation, that is.

Monk is the undisputed king of single target dps. Assuming they play correctly

SMN with B4B, IR, Thunder, and Aero? Broken as all hell.

The physical dps classes basically have their essential cross class stuff, and with one big exception being Straight Shot opening up to more wouldn't be a big deal. But B4B/IR work for magic too, huge boost for the magic classes.

The thing about Bard, is that in its current incarnation, adding more Cross Class skills to it would not actually really increase its DPS so much. It already has most (if not all?) the cross-class opportunities built into it.

Summoner would gain a direct gain with Blood For Blood, as would Black Mage. Dragoon would have a direct gain with Raging Strikes.

Not sure about Monk. Earnestly, I never really think that Monk is the best DPS in the game as o3o said, but that may just be because I've never met a Monk that plays as well as I play Dragoon, and the fact that the Monk is more vulnerable to losing their stacks than a Dragoon is to breaking rotation (Sure, we break it, but usually there are ways to recover a cycle and so it's not a huge dip in DPS.)

Monk is pretty easily the top single target dps, but it needs to be constantly hitting otherwise it will lose greased lightning and a decent chunk of dps. Dragoon is second highest and it is easier to maintain it's dps. Then comes ranged classes. It is made that way deliberately to offset how much more time melee spend out of combat range compared to ranged classes. Bard is probably the lowest maximum dps simply because it never has to stop damaging. I haven't personally tested it, so this is just an assumption.

Doesn't matter though, because all of the classes even out in terms of actual combat dps. I don't think more cross class skills would really affect these ranking by much.

Atually now that i think of it. Smn would probubly be incredibly brokenly op if it had the ability to cross aero and blood for blood. Stick every dot on a boss with all buffs up and then use contagion would be brokenly powerful. Ticks for maybe 500 on top of fester, egi attacks and ruin spam is op.

There is no discussion for single target DPS. Monk tops it.

Not even smn can touch them.

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Originally Posted by aivedoir

There is no discussion for single target DPS. Monk tops it.

Not even smn can touch them.

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smn come very close in single target. Depending on the fight smn also out dps monks by quite a bit. Take garuda ex for example and levi ex aswell.

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Originally Posted by aivedoir

There is no discussion for single target DPS. Monk tops it.

Not even smn can touch them.

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top single non-moving target DPS... maybe tp starve after 4mins...^^;

Mnk and Smn are definitely the top two single target, Brd is currently the weakest dps

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

top single non-moving target DPS... maybe tp starve after 4mins...^^;

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Also can't forget fights that require everyone to stack in one place like Titan X or Ifrit X, forcing monks to forgo their positional bonuses.

As long as everyone is great at their job
MNK>BLM>SMN>BRD.
You noticed there is no DRG on my list? Well that's because there are no great DRGs just Loldrgs.

The reason I have BRD last is if they are a great BRD they are more worried about supporting the group rather than hurting the overall group DPS for their own personal gain. Don't worry BRDs at least you made the list unlike DRG. :P

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Originally Posted by Woggers

You noticed there is no DRG on my list? Well that's because there are no great DRGs just Loldrgs.

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see sig. i find myself to be a perfectly sound dragoon, but titan EX has a habit of getting me killed by super-plume after jumping.

"best dps" is in the eye of the beholder in all but numbers.

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Originally Posted by Woggers

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As long as everyone is great at their job, MNK = SMN > DRG > BLM >> BRD in terms of single-target (boss) damage. MNK and SMN fight over top depending on each fight and the mechanics in them (should the MNK lose GL3, its game over, and that can happen in many fights. If there's any possibility of multi-dotting...SMN has a good chance of winning). DRG is next being about the same in most fights (and can also multi-dot pretty well), BLM is only "better" if there is a lot of AoE and/or they get a lot of procs (very few procs puts them closer to BRD in terms of damage, and don't say BLM shine T4, I've out-DPSed good BLM in T4 as a SMN, and I'm not a SMN) and BRD is BRD (they too can be "better" when multi-dotting)

And I've seen terribad examples of every class; BLM pulling barely 100 DPS in the first two phases of T4, BRD who only used Heavy Shot, MNK who don't dance, DRG who don't buff, SMN who only Ruin spam. There are bad players in all jobs. Get over it.
I find it funny that DRG and SMN were probably the most sought-after DPS jobs for Coil2 statics on my server for a while, as far as advertisements I saw were concerned (occasional BRD, some MNK [usually for statics with a DRG already], very few BLM). Few people play SMN (and less play it well) and the good DRG are said to be kept under lock and key by their statics (which is actually more true than you'd think; many DRG are like tanks, only being a DRG with people they know.)

If someone wants to test SMN's abilities with B4B and other actions, they need only gear their ACN the exact same way as the SMN down to Allagan gear so it's even, use all the abilities it has access to then like Internal Release and so on, plus Aero, then factor in the stat differences that a SMN would have and see what the result is. I'm sure this wouldn't be very hard to do with someone that knows how to do it, I myself don't, but ACN can do all of the things if you've leveled it that would make SMN having them broken as hell.

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Originally Posted by Woggers

As long as everyone is great at their job
MNK>BLM>SMN>BRD.
You noticed there is no DRG on my list? Well that's because there are no great DRGs just Loldrgs.

The reason I have BRD last is if they are a great BRD they are more worried about supporting the group rather than hurting the overall group DPS for their own personal gain. Don't worry BRDs at least you made the list unlike DRG. :P

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Let's completely ignore the original post (CLASSES, has nothing to do with bard or support it's a DPS discussion).
Funny thing is that Bard (archer) would still be last (and is last right now) among all DPS.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Let's completely ignore the original post (CLASSES, has nothing to do with bard or support it's a DPS discussion).
Funny thing is that Bard (archer) would still be last (and is last right now) among all DPS.

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This. Entire thread and no-one mentions a single class.

Jobs are not classes.

I believe THM tops the class DPS. As a BLM they only have access to one damage buff, in return they get their bonus stats, Flare and Convert.

If they were to drop the soul stone, they gain Blood for Blood and Internal Release so it's not a huge loss in DPS.

BRD doesn't lose much DPS going back to ARC though, they only really lose the bonus stats.

I guess it would depend if fight is single target or multi-target.

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

Also can't forget fights that require everyone to stack in one place like Titan X or Ifrit X, forcing monks to forgo their positional bonuses.

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That's actually quite easy to work around if you know Titan's rotations.
None the less, yes, Monk does take a DPS dip in that fight indeed with all the moving, dodging, stacking and Titan disappearing from the field.
(I still can't time that quite correctly, alas.)

As to which DPS tops what? It's all situational.
As far as I see, when it comes to class distribution this game is extremely ballanced.
Sure, there are situations where some classes are more prefered than others, and some instances do need some specific roles but as far as I can see there is nothing in the game that is impossible to do for any class.

There are some fights where Monk will lose out to SMN simply because of game mechanic design forces it, such as T7 if you have bad RNG and even T9 is quite sketchy for Monk with RNG. In 95% of fights good Monks should never lose to any other class in DPS. If you haven't seen a Monk perform like this you should go find one because when you do, you will understand.

DRG king of never getting a parachute
SMN king of minions.
MNK king of ORAORAORAORAORAORAORA.
BRD king of tree killing.
BLM king of fire.

can't wait for Thief

THF king of surprise shoulder taps.

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

Also can't forget fights that require everyone to stack in one place like Titan X or Ifrit X, forcing monks to forgo their positional bonuses.

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That's only if you're unfamiliar with the encounter. I do my positional bonuses just fine.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

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I'm 99% sure this stuff has been tested quite a bit. And the results were that dropping the soulstone is always a hit to DPS, even with all DPS cross-class cooldowns.

Raging Strikes doesn't make up for losing Jumps for DRG, nor just Fists of Fire for MNK. BFB and IR definitely don't make up for just losing Fester (add Spur and its even worse), nor for Flare. And yeah, BRD lose the most by ditching the crystal, gaining almost nothing. This isn't even counting the stat losses for losing the crystals, which is pretty major in-and-of itself.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

This. Entire thread and no-one mentions a single class.

Jobs are not classes.

I believe THM tops the class DPS. As a BLM they only have access to one damage buff, in return they get their bonus stats, Flare and Convert.

If they were to drop the soul stone, they gain Blood for Blood and Internal Release so it's not a huge loss in DPS.

BRD doesn't lose much DPS going back to ARC though, they only really lose the bonus stats.

I guess it would depend if fight is single target or multi-target.

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if its multi-target thaumaturge as they are only barred from flare and freeze.

if its single target its a toss-up between lancer and pugilist. i say that because pugilist loses monk's dragon fist, one ilm punch, rockbreaker, and fists of fire. while lancer only looses jumping abilities.

but then again...i could argue marauder :3 (tank with damage reducing combos, branching dps combo, access to all dps boosting skills bar fight or flight along with beserk and maim gives it a pretty good edge against other dps classes.)

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I'm 99% sure this stuff has been tested quite a bit. And the results were that dropping the soulstone is always a hit to DPS, even with all DPS cross-class cooldowns.

Raging Strikes doesn't make up for losing Jumps for DRG, nor just Fists of Fire for MNK. BFB and IR definitely don't make up for just losing Fester (add Spur and its even worse), nor for Flare. And yeah, BRD lose the most by ditching the crystal, gaining almost nothing. This isn't even counting the stat losses for losing the crystals, which is pretty major in-and-of itself.

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this. though we really aren't accounting for that anyway. we are comparing classes to classes, not classes to jobs.