Area redesign - Discussion thread

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Yoshida: Changes will be made to both the geography and the design of the areas. Some areas will be changed rather drastically, so I'd love if you all could discuss how you think the changes will be made while you're all looking forward to it.

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At Yoshi's request, lets talk area redesign.

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I think personally, it is critical to give each section of the major starting zones a unique character.

There is a beautiful white tree on the north side of the Black Shroud. This tree immediately says to me, I AM HERE. I AM NOT THERE.

Beastman tribe camps, outposts, or just random one off houses, campfires, unusual vegetation and so on. All of this i think would be critical to giving each area character.
There is lots that can be done with geography too. The long draw distance is great for view points, or secret paths etc..

Discuss! :)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Zone-Long-OP

Should we not keep this discussion in the above thread, since there are already many great suggestions in there?

probably on account of the name not screaming area redesign, despite its over 1000 responses, i did not see it when looking for one. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Zone-Long-OP

Should we not keep this discussion in the above thread, since there are already many great suggestions in there?

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You did it to mine and to his.. please just let us do our thing and stop trying to stop excitment, Thank you

Starlord, there's no need for the attitude, he thanked me for linking him the useful thread :)

No Attitude, just when exciting news happens from the person that's recreating the game I believe it should have its own thread but Im not going to argue, because argue is never my strong point so have a blast :P

I was not aware they are going to redesign the cities as well. o_O

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

At Yoshi's request, lets talk area redesign.

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I think personally, it is critical to give each section of the major starting zones a unique character.

There is a beautiful white tree on the north side of the Black Shroud. This tree immediately says to me, I AM HERE. I AM NOT THERE.

Beastman tribe camps, outposts, or just random one off houses, campfires, unusual vegetation and so on. All of this i think would be critical to giving each area character.
There is lots that can be done with geography too. The long draw distance is great for view points, or secret paths etc..

Discuss! :)

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I think we should also have small villages. We can get quests, items, shops, etc from these and it makes more sense to have a bunch of smaller villages then only 3 main cities.

Other mmos have these and FFXIV should too!

Omg, please tell me I didn't just make a duplicate thread.

Great thread. I was going to start one also based on that latest Yoshida-san interview. :)

On the highest level for the Area / Map Redesign:

• The current massive "1 Area" per Nation (Thanalan, The Black Shroud, La Noscea), should be broken up into Smaller Areas (thematically, design-wise, artistically).

• The Smaller Areas should coincide with Player Progression: Rank 1 - 10 is Smaller Area A; Rank 11 - 20 is Smaller Area B; Rank 21 - 30 is Smaller Area C, etc.

• Each Smaller Area should be Visually Distinct, Thematically Different, but still provide a sense of a cohesive world. For example, in FF XI, Crawler's Nest and Rolanberry Fields were very different and distinct, but it was believable that they both could coexist in the same region.

• There should be some noticeable and unique Landmarks in these Smaller Areas. These "Landmarks" can be anything from a massive Crashed Airship (like Mor Dhona), to a unique type of Magical Vegetation that only grows in that area, to a Giant Waterfall, to an area that is the ONLY home of a type of a creature (e.g., Black Mandragoras!). :)

• Send the players out to other lands as they progress further in the game: Don't let us be stuck in Thanalan, La Noscea or The Black Shroud forever. The game should encourage and push the player to progress not only through distinctive Smaller Areas within the Region, but also send them out to other Continents / Major Areas (like send them to Coerthas or Mor Dhona or future Lands like our version of Sky or Sea).

Now as to specifically how the team might change the Geography and/or Design of each Area as they develop it (as Yoshida-san is asking us to discuss)...

• They could use some of the more distinctive, beautiful areas in the game that are currently wasted because they are filled with Rank 60+ Mobs that are too dangerous to SP on (or are places that are too far away). Here are some examples:

* The Black Shroud *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Bentbranch region (キャンプ・ベントプランチ) (same as it is now, but with less tunnels :P)
• Rank 11 - 20: Five Hangs region / Mirror Lake (鹿落五橋). Open it up more, but have a whole region be in and around a GIANT LAKE with Harbors, etc.
• Rank 21 - 30: Sorrel Haven (スカンボの安息所): It's a gorgeous area, with flowing Rivers and a GIANT MANA TREE! :) This is already in the game.
• Rank 21 - 30 (Alternate): The Tam Tara Deepcroft / Mun-Tuy Cellars (タムタラの墓所) (Dungeons). They're fine as is.

* La Noscea *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Bearded Rock (キャンプ・ビアデッドロック) region (as it is now).
• Rank 11 - 20: South Bloodshore BEACH (サウス・ブラッドショア). The lower level Beach area (expanded a bit more), would be a distinct, "ocean side" battle area, with a gorgeous view. It could be like a "Valkurm Dunes" area for XIV. There are quite a few Beach / Coastline areas that are currently too small and unused.
• Rank 21 - 30: Cassiopeia Hollow (浮海月の巌穴) - Unique and different as is, already in the game.
• Rank 21 - 30 (Alternate): The Isles of Umbra (幻影諸島です) - If you've been to The Isles of Umbra, it's a BEAUTIFUL area, high above the lands, with cliffs and climbing areas and then the huge open view overlooking the oceans. If they made this area usable for this rank, that'd give a unique experience as well.

* Thanalan *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Black Brush (ブラックブラッシュ). It's fine as is, for a basic Desert Starter area.
• Rank 11 - 20: Nanawa Mines (ナナワ銀山) - It's a Mining Dungeon area. It's different from the outside areas and they can keep their work on this.
• Rank 11 - 20: The Footfalls (Deep Canyon Area) (足跡の谷) - If anyone's been to The Footfalls (it's found via the Lower Canyon area going to The Docks (to get to the Ferry from Limsa -> Ul'dah)), it's a deep Canyon area, with Tall, Mountainous Walls, and Ravines. If they developed this area out more, added some cool Nausicaa Overgrown Spore Foliage and made THAT the Rank 20 Camp, that'd stand out far more than Drybone.
• Rank 21 - 30: Burnt Lizard Creek (with MORE of the Temple Architecture) (リザードクリーク): If anyone's seen the Hidden Temple in a cave in Burnt Lizard Creek, it's BEAUTIFUL and completely unused. (>_>) If they developed out more of this hidden Temple Architecture and added it to the area around Burnt Lizard Creek and maybe added something like an Active VOLCANO with Flowing Lava, that'd be a great Rank 30 area that'd be visually distinct.

Besides those quick examples of re-using current areas (but moving them around geographically), the team could also:

• Create brand-new Environments / Textures / Themes to really make Zone Progression stand out. Examples:
  • Thanalan: Start out with Desert.
  • Then progress to an Aetheryte / Magic-Infused Crystal Mining Area (a completely distinctive more "enchanted / fantasy" instead of the brown, normal Nanawa Mines.
  • Active Volcano with Flowing Lava in another Smaller Area.
  • Gridania: Start out in the basic Forest area.
  • Then progress to an Elemental Energy-infused portion of the Forest that stands out from the earlier area, like this from Final Fantasy X:
    
    http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/fina...5/?full_size=1

And also, for the Zone Redesigns, I hope Team Yoshida is also considering:

• Monster Placement and Layout. This goes hand-in-hand with the Zone Redesign, as right now, you see Star Marmots everywhere. You see Coblyns all over Thanalan. You see Dodos or Aldgoats throughout La Noscea and Thanalan, really adding a sense of "sameness" without being distinct.
  
  Right now, you see a Rank 1 Mushroom at the start of Gridania, and you see a Rank 40+ Mushroom that looks exactly the same at higher level camps like Crimson Bark.

I hope we see Drakes / Guivres be selectively and distinctively used to really set apart an area, so that when we see them, we feel like, "Oh wow, XYZ is home of the Inferno Drakes! Cool!" instead of seeing Drakes / Guivres in every single region.

It's also important to remind the Team to not forget about Siobu's amazing "One to Fifty Zone" thread with lots of good information and contributions from so many players! :)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Zone-Long-OP

No matter what, I look forward to the major redesign that's happening! Keep up the good work Yoshida-san & Team! :)

The areas overall need to have more variety, that much is clear.
We could also use more views, alternate routes and points of interest.

There was a video that showed the life in Vanadiel... Even small changes like that should be integrated into the redesign.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I think we should also have small villages. We can get quests, items, shops, etc from these and it makes more sense to have a bunch of smaller villages then only 3 main cities.

Other mmos have these and FFXIV should too!

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Hi Onidemon,

Definitely. Currently you see places like Quarrymill or The Golden Bazaar (hamlets) and they look like they could support Guilds or Shops, but are unused. That'd be nice to have.

Then again, we're also getting these Frontier Quest Hubs, so maybe we'll have some Shops / Convenience within those areas?

Give Eorza a really odd moon. Perhaps it's an odd color or shape. Give it it's own story. Something different to look at when you look up. Less Earth like. Something to remind you your not in cansas anymore.

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Originally Posted by alexi14

Give Eorza a really odd moon. Perhaps it's an odd color or shape. Give it it's own story. Something different to look at when you look up. Less Earth like. Something to remind you your not in cansas anymore.

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Hi alexi,

Nice idea. Definitely creating a unique series of Moons / Constellations / Northern Lights / Aurora Effects in the sky when you look up would be a nice touch.

I hope they add small things to the areas that make it stand out, FFXI had this but most ppl didnt take the time to stop and look. Here is a video made by Chochoroon, the video shows all the unique scenery within areas in Vana'Diel.

FF11 Vana'diel Scenery

Its small things like this that imo made Areas in FFXI so amazing and gave players the feel that Vana'Diel was alive. I would love to experience that in Eorzea, with amazing graphics. When i play now, while some areas graphically look amazing the world itself feels dead, there is no life to it like Vana'diel had. As u can see in the video above, the birds, bugs, butterflies, fish and so on, these small things that are taking place in the environment around you gave Vana'diel life, for example the whale and whale family that pop up during the boat ride (4:20+ in the video) and its things like this that Eorzea is missing

Anyway not to stray to far from topic, i hope when they redesign the zones, they do small things like this to bring the world to life. If they simply change the way it looks but don't give it unique features then i think ppl would get bored of it after a while.

I just don't like how it seems like we are missing entire zones between the current zones.

If you don't know what I am talking about look up that old world map (from pre-release you can find it on the net easily) then go to a FFXIV map website (yg.com or ffxivmaps.com[something like that]) and look at the differences, for example.

Thanalan <-> Black Shroud looks like a good distance from each other. Which makes me wonder, does the Black Shroud really take up the entire Eastern side of Eorzea? (because that is what it is doing now with how it is set up. Also where is that bay at to the west of Ul'dah? I don't ever remember going there...in fact it doesn't really exist in the current map! Also the fact that there are mountains seemly surrounding Ul'dah when it's supposed to be in the middle of a desert, why not let up roam 360* around it? As I matter of fact I feel that the city should be slightly elevated above everything in its nearby vicinity to give a better vista when approaching it (more of that, 'OMG there is it!' feel than just a city hidden because of some small mountains, this isn't Bastok)

Also why can't we reach the cape (southern end of Thanalan's region) ok I suppose I can answer myself and say "expansion areas" so understandable, but to turn the southern area into a maze of mountain-like paths doesn't make sense since the true world map stats its a desert. So I hope stuff like this gets addressed when they remake the maps.

Also if you look on the world map there is a river, supposedly right before you get to the docks where the boat is to take you to Limsa Lominsa (in West Thanalan), this river is so labeled as the Ginderfoot River but lacks an appearance in the game, in fact it's all together disappeared! How come? This could have added so much to the lack-luster area of Thanalan as River = fresh water = green grass and plants of color to off-set the 90% tans and browns of that region.

But I linger in Thanalan too much, what about La Noscea? Well for one there is supposedly a giant volcano there (if you look at the collective map the giant center where you cannot run through is supposed to be it), yet its so massive and we don't really get any good sight lines of it. (something to consider when remaking this map) It could even tie into a village town somehow, like:

The town uses a stray lava stream that runs into the ocean to make Eorzea's finest hot springs, promised to have healing powers for all kinds of aches, or something along those lines. But something to offset the 90% of green/blue/gray that region loves. Good color schemes come from minimal usage of colors but when you make all the colors on the same side of the wheel you get bland looking environments (with a throw in of reds you have cool color, cool color, hot color; a dynamic choose to liven the scenery)

As far as The Black Shroud goes however, I really hope (although it is a beautiful zone in terms of detail) that you add more hot colors or have an absence of colors (area with only dead trees, so you have dirt and burnt trees, or dead trees that have lost most of the vivid color. Also, something to consider: Make an upper level to the trees, XIII, X, and XII all had this in them and its something I really loved! At the bottom make it where you can pretty much B-line from point to point but up top make it the labyrinth of tree branches in the canopy of the trees, and make it where you would have to use the tree tops to get to certain areas (crossing a big river or something of the like) but don't make it too dependent on the labyrinth, this could also allow for beautiful vistas (assuming some portions take you to the top of the trees) where you can see the ground like an ocean of green leaves with a azure blue skyline and mountains (or whatever is in the distance) in the distance. Also it would be neat if some portions of the tree tops area that you could see below you and see monsters and players running by, it would be fun and return that forest feel without being a total labyrinth.

Anywho, long post is long but those are my thoughts. On the other two zones, since I don't really frequent them too often (although I have traversed them to all ends) I think those are the two most right zones created (and lack the most content how ironic).


TL;DR:
Have a dynamic color choice (cool, cool, hot color scheme; hot, hot, cool color scheme)
Make special "Vistas" while exploring to make the areas memorable
Make the maps actually work/represent the world map you released before the game was released

I personally think the zones are to big or rather to much of the same thing covering to much space. I think smaller more detailed zones would be better. I want to see more colour, more landmarks, interesting places to explore, more non instanced dungeons, a lot more towns and camps with reason to actually visit them. PLEASE NO MORE COPY AND PASTING! Please do not re-use massive chunks of scenery so many times. This ruins immersion when it is so obvious it's been done. At least try to hide it. Also stop with the maze like zones and corridors it's annoying and it is boring. Make more open zones this includes the dungeons to, not every dungeon needs to be a maze.

I thought the zones in FF XI were well done and they looked great. It was one of my favourite things about the game, it was a beautiful world.

To me FF has always been about amazing beautiful fantasy worlds and it was very painful to be presented with such a dull lifeless world in XIV.

I didn't Play FFXI for long but the atmosphere of the areas and little details of the plants and effects made the world a whole lot more alive as others have already said just to get that part out the way.

The world lacks depth imo, while what we have looks stunning I sometimes think its the fluff that is missing.
It's far to static at times, even just having the Pc's moving around from 1 place to another would help a huge amount imo, patrols leaving the main city walking camp to camp.
Mobs moving from location to location as a heard or running from an aggressive mob.
Mobs fighting each other.
Mobs attacks each other
Mobs are around changing with the weather or day/night.
Small critters running around (the size of the old mobs or smaller) and running from everything and everyone.
Oh and Mob placement suiting the surroundings, I have to wonder sometimes about crabs and does next to each other lol.
An rather then redesigning the world, I would much rather see new sub zones (around 1/2 the size of the current?) added around the current ones then time spent on redesigned atm.
Using the Current zones as they are almost like hubs, and the real conent beding added around them.
- Large cavern sections around the LL zones or small islands off the coast,
- several old ruined villages populated with goblins or beast tribes or even new npc villages (that look like villages with more houses then the current ones),
- underground tunnels below the tree roots around Gridania.
- A huge desert with only thats alwasy got a serious sandstorm.
Meaning you can very ocasionally get lost and end up back where you started lol (mini event thing you see your self walk off then load up walking back to the nearest camp)
- New sections added under or over on inside the citys for the content to the new areas.

Ok I could ramble on for ages here but you get the idea I hope. :p

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Zone-Long-OP

Should we not keep this discussion in the above thread, since there are already many great suggestions in there?

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Stop being such a forum pooper :D. More threads mean's more posts!!! =D

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Originally Posted by Greencactaur

Stop being such a forum pooper :D. More threads mean's more posts!!! =D

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It was actually a genuine question hence the question mark :D

I agree with most of what is said here. To me, they should focus on making zones smaller and more detailed. I think FFXI was way better in terms of zone design/feel/progression but still wasted tons of space. I mean, there were beautiful areas with no reason to go to them (and they were huge on top of that). I hope when they do the redesign, they really focus on the idea Yoshi brought up in an interview about 'conductor', that is, focusing on the progression of the character and where they go.

And please god, make it so the farther you go out the more dangerous the mobs. I don't want to see furry animals everywhere I go.

I'm actually pretty excited about this, more so than i am about new content. The crappy zones were my biggest gripe about the game.

My 2 cents: Make TBS more open. Not a maze/series of tunnels. The rest of the zones I don't really have a problem with. As far as the physical layout goes, at least.

However these redesigns take place, the open world should have a feeling of worth. Monsters should be everywhere and not a vast empty landscape for miles & miles. That's just monsters, but there should be many little way-points & distinguishable locations/camps as well.

Overall, when my RL friends ask me about all the places you have to travel on the journey from Lv 1 - 50, i don't want to reply with "right here in the desert" or "thanalan". They look at you like you're crazy.


Landmark Requests:

• A creepy old dead tree with the face of a monster petrified on the trunk of it (it moans in-game).
• Floating airships that hover in the sky above certain areas.
• An area where there are many corpses piled on the ground with glowing fireflies circling it.
• Secret underground complex with evil moogles practicing necromancy on a Roegadyn in a subligar!
• An area inside a dungeon where the walls actually bleed.