Will this be like WoW where gear becomes obsolte THAT fast?

Has there been any comments or anything about this?

I am wondering if this will be a trend.
Where every patch or very often new gear is introudced and your current gear becomes "outaded" or obsolete.

I am NOT complaning or whining about this, I am just curious whereas this will be the direction the game will take.

I am personally more fond of "keepin" for a longer period of time your hard earned gear. but well.

Yes, steep vertical progression is the name of the game. Due to lack of implementation of any items which offer stats beyond the usual (Every piece is sequentially better than the next because gear is just stat porn) you just keep climbing tossing gear to your retainers as you go.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Yes, steep vertical progression is the name of the game. Due to lack of implementation of any items which offer stats beyond the usual (Every piece is sequentially better than the next because gear is just stat porn) you just keep climbing tossing gear to your retainers as you go.

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That's most if not all MMO's. Just because WoW is the subscription king, doesn't mean every subscription based game is a WoW clone.

The main concern does seem to be gear in the ilvl50-i110 range atm.

A lot of people between CT, myth, and coil have i80 and i90 gear all ready for alts. DL is going to the waste side and everything under it for sure, aside from the rare vanity gear that is actually cool.

I don't even think most people wear their AF body as 50 nowadays on most alts since they likely have better ilvl Body pieces ready.

Seems like it. Each gear/weapon gives you a few bland stats more.

your gear will be good for 6 months.

i feel that's a pretty good range of time to keep it relevant.

after 6 months we get new coil turns higher ilvls and better gear :)

so if 6 months is fast to you yes, if not no.

They seem to be following the power creep model.

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Originally Posted by Killance

That's most if not all MMO's. Just because WoW is the subscription king, doesn't mean every subscription based game is a WoW clone.

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I'm not saying that it's like this due to beingWoW clone, but to answer the TC's question as to whether or not gear will become obsolete quickly the answer is absolutely yes.

The alternative system would be something FF XI where every piece of gear has stats that provide augments beyond stats (Increase shield block rate, chance to strike multiple times, increased enmity, elemental resistances, flat damage reduction, skills built into the weapons themselves)- however due to the way armory system and gear swapping in this game works that isn't an option. Not to mention that many of those abilities would be redundant in this game due to the way skills work to begin with. This isn't to say that one approach is better than the other.

In FF XI you specialize to a fault, eventually to the point where you'd have macro gear sets for each individual action to optimize it. Gear had an incredibly long life-span for this reason. Even if you traded off stats in other areas pieces still had worth that outlived their level range.

in FF XIV you just keep upgrading because it's just flat stat upgrades that you can't say no to if you want to keep clearing content.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Yes, steep vertical progression is the name of the game. Due to lack of implementation of any items which offer stats beyond the usual (Every piece is sequentially better than the next because gear is just stat porn) you just keep climbing tossing gear to your retainers as you go.

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That's how it should be. That's how every successful MMO does it. Don't like it? You're free to go back to an archaic MMO like FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Every successful MMO?
You mean the very large pile of WoW-too attempts sitting in the F2P zone of irrelevant-opolis?
Or do you mean successful MMOs that have lasted for over a decade without needing to rely on cashshop gimmicks. Like the wicked old FFXI.

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Try to discount WoW all you want but it's a model that works. As for FFXI, well its dwindling subscription numbers speak for itself.

If the so-called horizontal progression model was something that the masses desired, we'd see it in every MMO that came out. We do not, and for a good reason.

It's not every patch its every 2 major patches which is 6-8 months.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

That's how it should be. That's how every successful MMO does it. Don't like it? You're free to go back to an archaic MMO like FFXI.

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Every successful MMO?
You mean the very large pile of WoW-too attempts sitting in the F2P zone of irrelevant-opolis?
Or do you mean successful MMOs that have lasted for over a decade without needing to rely on cashshop gimmicks. Like the wicked old FFXI.

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Try to discount WoW all you want but it's a model that works.

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Yes. It's a model that worked FOR WoW. No so great for every mimic that came out after.

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As for FFXI, well its dwindling subscription numbers speak for itself.

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XI's low numbers can be attributed to the totally screwed up game dynamic brought on by Abyssia and the fact the game is chained down by a 14 year old console. WoW has no such restriction, and even then its subscriber base is starting to fall, even with constant expansions.

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If the so-called horizontal progression model was something that the masses desired, we'd see it in every MMO that came out. We do not, and for a good reason.

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What reason might that be? What on earth is so terrible about horizontal progression? The lack of nerfing old content just to make sure new players catch up? The variety in ways you can raise your character? What has made this idea so toxic to you?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Every successful MMO?
You mean the very large pile of WoW-too attempts sitting in the F2P zone of irrelevant-opolis?
Or do you mean successful MMOs that have lasted for over a decade without needing to rely on cashshop gimmicks. Like the wicked old FFXI.

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Wow. I can't tell if that poster needs aloe or a fire extinguisher now.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

The main concern does seem to be gear in the ilvl50-i110 range atm.

A lot of people between CT, myth, and coil have i80 and i90 gear all ready for alts. DL is going to the waste side and everything under it for sure, aside from the rare vanity gear that is actually cool.

I don't even think most people wear their AF body as 50 nowadays on most alts since they likely have better ilvl Body pieces ready.

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A new player that hits 50 likely need to progress through all the gear levels... i55, i60, i70, ... (not necessarily full sets of each gear level)
Aside from vanity i55, i60 and i70 drops can be turned in for GC seals, that you can buy crafting mats or ventures or other things with.
GC seals are actually useful now, which they weren't previously.

It's good in the sense that people won't feel left behind if they miss a patch or two, because they can catch up when the new ilvl tier is out.

But it's also bad since you don't have THAT much time to enjoy the gear that you spent months trying to earn BIS.

Personally, I don't mind it because it makes me want to progress more. But I can't deny that FFXI's system might be a better idea. Honestly flat stats upgrade isn't that creative to me.

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It's good in the sense that people won't feel left behind if they miss a patch or two, because they can catch up when the new ilvl tier is out.

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It's the other way : players coming back after a break have to go through a catch-up phase before doing any new content because of vertical progression.
With horizontal progression, it's possible to start with new content immediately after coming back.
Which doesn't forbid new awesome skills and gears.
And it doesn't forbid some verticality either, just less steep.

Wish there were sets with bonuses and/or different stats. Like if you have 3 pieces of certain set, your skill X will be get a new effect, say, a damage over time -effect or sleep is increased by 5 seconds. Just. Something. :s

I really loved that about LotRO, could do different set combinations to make the class more like "my own". Since, you know, everybody is using the same cross-class abilities. Might as well give us something else to toy around with.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

DL is going to the waste side and everything under it for sure, aside from the rare vanity gear that is actually cool.

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DL is still good for seals.

If you geared from the start (got Coil pieces withing the 1st two months), that gear would be good up until now since i90 is the way to go if you want to attempt T6 and up. It's been about 6 months and i90 is still very powerful (primals including Levi EX). If you consider this to bee "too fast outdated", then I think it's you. Same goes for the i110 gear. If you started right away, you now have one or two pieces of i110 (extremely lucky people have like 4 lol). I don't think this is unfair, since groups take the time to clear new content. They deserve better gear. Most of them walk around in atleast 70% i90 gear too..

I feel the life cycle for CT gears is a little bit short as it took 5weeks to complete a CT set with the lockout,
just wonder since 2.2 is there any reason to run CT but not farm myth for gear up?

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Originally Posted by Nana_Balthazar

It's the other way : players coming back after a break have to go through a catch-up phase before doing any new content because of vertical progression.
With horizontal progression, it's possible to start with new content immediately after coming back.
Which doesn't forbid new awesome skills and gears.
And it doesn't forbid some verticality either, just less steep.

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This is only true if level cap stagnates for 7 years allowing the meager differences in top teir gear to stay relevant long last their sell by date, oh and also if gear swapping was also a "thing". Otherwise all horizontal progression ends up being is actually inventory bloat and stagnation as "why increase the level cap, just recolor some old gear, slap a new name on them, and shuffle the stats around"

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

I feel the life cycle for CT gears is a little bit short as it took 5weeks to complete a CT set with the lockout,
just wonder since 2.2 is there any reason to run CT but not farm myth for gear up?

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To gear up for coil 1-4 while saving up the myth tomes for the atma books, i guess
And for vanity

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Originally Posted by Felis

To gear up for coil 1-4 while saving up the myth tomes for the atma books, i guess
And for vanity

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The gear itself is a nice stepping stone for us noobs and for people who don't have full alt sets. The dl gear is in instances other players make hell for new and low geared people so it's either fight through that or skip it entirely and myth farm/hope filler gear drops in a lower pressure environment.

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Originally Posted by Nana_Balthazar

It's the other way : players coming back after a break have to go through a catch-up phase before doing any new content because of vertical progression.
With horizontal progression, it's possible to start with new content immediately after coming back.
Which doesn't forbid new awesome skills and gears.
And it doesn't forbid some verticality either, just less steep.

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yeah, i really have no clue why ppl think that this vertical super fast progression is any good. I play a lot and just because i dindt touch some content right after release (didnt feel like it) i can barely do it now since its outdated and nobody does it after the 2.2 update.... that is stupid and a bad design decision. Why destroying the old content instead of keeping it alive?

I have the feeling that i have to gear up ASAP otherwise i can just leave it. Atm im at the point where i just feel like leaving, you just grind yourself to death for nothing basicly. Not that great of a concept... finer, better tuned progression liek ffxi did or the secret world does. that is a good way imho.

This concept just produces elitists and undergeared beginners that nobody "wants".

I think they should add more complexity for high end-game gear & content to expand on an horizontal progression while still following their main trend of vertical progression.

So, the more people go to end-game, the greater the diversity but also more work for SE.
We'll see how far they can get.

Here are some ideas for horizontal progression in line with the vertical one, but not limited to this off course:

• Exotic stats on gear (absorb stats, boost skills, random proc with weird effects, negative stats, etc.)
  • I personally would like to more elemental, status ailment imbued weapons.
• Skill tree or customization points earned from level 50+ to earn new skills, traits, stats, more cross-class allowance, etc.
  • I'm really interested in diversification and customization, so classes in 1.0 were a big plus. However, the armoury system has become very dull since classes were reduced to a transitory phase for jobs. I think adding back more versatility with cross-class would be awesome.
• Alternative content (e.g. housing allowed crafting to be revisited, same with glamour as people get lower level items, etc.)
  • So should have airship content coming soon, water and flying content would be great too, adding purely puzzle dungeons for DoL and DoH would be great too, etc.
  • How about dynamic dungeons? They change every week or so.
    (A large amount of pre-made rooms, with only a few chosen randomly to make up the dungeons.)

But, I'm sure the staff is already aware of all that.


Let's wait and see.