Players/groups selling HM/EX wins with guaranteed loot

SE, please make advertising the sale of HM/EX Primal runs with guaranteed loot a reportable/bannable offence.
Players should not be allowed to buy their way through content, because other people will have to suffer when we get those buyers in groups through Duty Finder who don't know how to play or deal with game mechanics.

Furthermore, there are groups making a lot of Gil from the proceeds of this which gives them an unfair advantage over others who aren't focused on benefiting from incapable players.

I totally agree, we need to do something about people buying crafted gear also, it's unfair that they get a chance to get higher item level gear without running the dungeons in a certain arbitrary order. We need to stop this before it ruins the game. The market board also needs to be removed so raiders do not get a chance to purchase food to increase their stats without making it themselves. The market board is the only reason why Blue Gartr killed Turn 8, they raid so much they don't have time to craft food, but they get an unfair advantage over anyone who does not raid because they can just buy food off the market board.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

A: You're making assumptions. Just because they buy a run doesn't mean they're incapable.
B: -How- do you suffer when, in North America, the Duty Finder is largely used as a learning tool to begin with?
C: Name one thing Gil does for you that gives you such an insurmountable mechanical advantage that these fiendish primal runners are doing to ruin your gaming experience?

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A: please enlighten me on why players pay to be fed clears/loot from trials?
B: how you view the Duty Finder is up to you. Is it officially stated what it is for? Personally I would specify practice runs in Party Finder, not impose myself as a practice runner with potentially a group who can clear and cause failure for all. That is definitely not to say you should perform perfectly either, everyone has their own expectations of themselves, some Duty Finder groups are accomodating and others perhaps not so much.
C: don't assume that Gil will never amount to anything in this game.

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Originally Posted by Foullacy

I totally agree, we need to do something about people buying crafted gear also, it's unfair that they get a chance to get higher item level gear without running the dungeons in a certain arbitrary order. We need to stop this before it ruins the game. The market board also needs to be removed so raiders do not get a chance to purchase food to increase their stats without making it themselves. The market board is the only reason why Blue Gartr killed Turn 8, they raid so much they don't have time to craft food, but they get an unfair advantage over anyone who does not raid because they can just buy food off the market board.

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Someone got in early to derail my thread. You're just being silly, I hope you're trolling.

Players can do whatever they want. If that means buying runs so be it.

Just because you do not like something does not mean it should be a banable offense.

I don't particularly care for the idea of people selling wins. I mean, if you're good enough to help others win, why not just do so? The greed some players exhibit is really disappointing; I even saw someone (jokingly, I hope) tell someone asking for a raise to pay them 45K. . . At the same time however, one doesn't have to cater to it. There's plenty of things I haven't accomplished yet, but I won't pay someone to do what I and a few other people can simply learn to do ourselves.

In the end, so long as it's not against any ToS or a bannable offense, it's up to players to decide what they'll allow or not. If people trying to sell wins can't/won't get any buyers because people simply choose not to support their practice, they'll stop. Or try to find some other way to get in-game money. Same goes for the market board. Don't like super high prices? Sell at a reasonable one, CONSISTENTLY. Eventually, the price hikers would be smart to get the idea when their items don't sell for prolonged periods of time.

Never going to happen, merc runs is a fixture of every mmo. Keep on getting mad about it if it helps.

Buying gear doesn't make them good, who cares.

You can always spot the buyers. Like the one blm in CT who let his mp run out and wiped us on Atomos a couple times cause he had no idea what transpose did or how to get his mp back. Yet he was in full myth gear and had a zenith. Either he bought his gil and everything else or he just flat out bought his account. We just had one guy get kicked from our fc for openly talking about buying his account.

Buying runs only becomes a problem when you start wiping other ppls pts

They will join DF anyway, with or without their buying loot. You'd better suggest SE stopping offer tome exchangable high ilv gears to prevent noobs join ur DF party.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

A: please enlighten me on why players pay to be fed clears/loot from trials?
B: how you view the Duty Finder is up to you. Is it officially stated what it is for? Personally I would specify practice runs in Party Finder, not impose myself as a practice runner with potentially a group who can clear and cause failure for all. That is definitely not to say you should perform perfectly either, everyone has their own expectations of themselves, some Duty Finder groups are accomodating and others perhaps not so much.
C: don't assume that Gil will never amount to anything in this game.

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A: Impatient, not on at peak times, have rotten luck with their groups. Etc etc.
B: This one will just go in circles, so we can just stop arguing it.
C: Change this to "Don't assume" and follow your own advice.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

Furthermore, there are groups making a lot of Gil from the proceeds of this which gives them an unfair advantage over others who aren't focused on benefiting from incapable players.

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I bought a Titan carry.

It wasn't because I was incapable. It was because I wasn't going to beg people to let a Warrior to join their group. It was also because I wasn't sure if I was actually going to keep playing the game or not and just wanted to complete the Warrior class look.

I also really really wanted it and didn't feel like waiting on my FC :p didn't have a static, wasn't planning on making or joining one at that point and time

Not every player who purchases a carry is an idiot. As a player who has purchased boosts and done some boosting themselves, I can tell you now that most players who purchase carries are not even terrible players.

Here on Adamantoise GoWar hosted an event called "Titan-thon" which was basically a bunch of free titan kills handed out to anyone willing to be waitlisted that day. Like, I guess they were pissed off at people for selling and there was a bit of drama there.

But anyway, we got their list and started running Titan carries with two carries in group (for free!). I don't know what those players have done, I don't know how they have performed, but I do know that the majority of them were wearing Darklight equipment.

More effort than people in the Duty Finder were putting in, that's for sure.

But FFXIV on Adamantoise also ran plenty of Titan carries and if you want, you can dig up their old thread at the bottom of Adamantoise's forum where you can see that the guy is getting pissed (basically said what I am saying to you now) about people talking shit on their customers. The people who performed those carries, my carry, were one of the first groups in the world to have killed Twintania. I'd think they have a pretty good idea of what players are and aren't good.

Honestly, I think it's more likely that someone who got carries for free are going to be more inept than someone who is willing to pay a price.

OP where do you draw the line on buying things from others is bad? Did you make your own relic weapon and convert your own materia? Did you make or farm all your equipment or mats for crafting? They are offering a service that people are willing to pay for for a variety of reasons.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

I bought a Titan carry.

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That's really unfortunate, tanking Titan on WAR pre 2.1 was honestly the most exciting, sweat inducing fight I've done.

I've been selling runs in other games for years (namely, WoW) and I can assure you of one thing that is consistent.

95%+ of the players who buy runs are NOT the noobs who couldn't beat it themselves, they are the good and dedicated players that either don't have the time, or can't find a competent group to down said content. Usually because they took a break from the game and came back with a large gear and experience gap they couldn't overcome to get into the groups on their skill level.

Noobs don't have the money and many probably don't even know you can buy runs.

Selling runs funds many guilds/FC's in new patches, a lot of them don't split the money between members and instead throw it all into the bank and hold it until it's needed for progression. Say if they release new gear that's crafted and equal or higher ilvl(this happens most often during a new expansion). The guild will dish out for multiple pieces to gear a player(s), which costs a lot.

...ok let's see , OP states that buying HM/EX/Etc runs with ->Drop<- (also known as piece of gear) is "not fair & bannable offence" . Let's imagine Player X have 2m gil , Player Y don't have , player X buying ilv 90 gear + materias , player Y have to spam "trash" to get DL etc cause he can't affrod ilv90 . This way we can clearly see Player X have advanced forward in progression that player Y , so should player X get banned because he bought ilv90 ???? O.o . Now let's back to mercenary talks lol , player X spotted in PF mercenary service (lmao) , player Y spotted also , but he have 10k only T.T . Player X paid & win run , player Y have to spam "trash" again .
In both situations we can clearly see that gil (fairly earned ingame) being used by Player X to Advance in game (in any means). Let's imagine Player X is horrible @ dodging/remembering stuff , but he --> GOLDEN <-- @ let's say SB runs , so he have tonns of gils . So player X actually put effort to earn gil , now he pays to mercenary -->service<-- by fairly earned gil and gets clear , this way Player X get def legit and also deserved clear + loot , while player Y was doing ... let's say "trash" , daily routine , relic , ex runs or w/e (Player Y btw can be awesome/skilled raider idk) and now he seeking "justice" on forums .

I draw the line on the understanding that the trials are there to be beaten by actually playing the game, and you roll on loot upon completion.
Buying from Market Board is a game feature, crafting anything is a game feature, Gerolt makes your Relic Weapon, it's a game feature. People shouting fee for clear/loot is not a game feature, it's what certain people are doing to profit from the unskilled, lazy or unfortunate (spiking connections), etc.. I don't think SE ever intended that to be the way for players to clear content. Yes there are statics in FC's who more or less feed and carry each other for all the spoils, but they aren't charging for the privilege.

Taking the time to beat a trial is part of the process, not having time or not being bothered to re-queue and try again with another group should not be an excuse to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

I draw the line on the understanding that the trials are there to be beaten by actually playing the game, and you roll on loot upon completion.
Buying from Market Board is a game feature, crafting anything is a game feature, Gerolt makes your Relic Weapon, it's a game feature. People shouting fee for clear/loot is not a game feature, it's what certain people are doing to profit from the unskilled, lazy or unfortunate (spiking connections), etc.. I don't think SE ever intended that to be the way for players to clear content. Yes there are statics in FC's who more or less feed and carry each other for all the spoils, but they aren't charging for the privilege.

Taking the time to beat a trial is part of the process, not having time or not being bothered to re-queue and try again with another group should not be an excuse to pay for it.

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Just playing devil's advocate, but putting up "merc" posting in party finder is a game feature is it not? Party Finder allows you to create a group for whatever, and I've seen PF used for buying mats, recruitment, etc. I realize I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm not going to try, but I look at it this way: If I meld materia for you, I'm providing a service. If 7 people carry you, they are providing a service. You might not want to craft, which is why you paid for the meld / items, etc. Some might not want to deal with pugging, etc. I don't think the differences are that black and white.

Buyers help out the economy better than the market boards do since there is no fee to trade gil with another player. No gil is being deleted from the server upon a carry.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

Just playing devil's advocate, but putting up "merc" posting in party finder is a game feature is it not? Party Finder allows you to create a group for whatever, and I've seen PF used for buying mats, recruitment, etc. I realize I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm not going to try, but I look at it this way: If I meld materia for you, I'm providing a service. If 7 people carry you, they are providing a service. You might not want to craft, which is why you paid for the meld / items, etc. Some might not want to deal with pugging, etc. I don't think the differences are that black and white.

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I did post this for the feedback and am not closed to other people's views or changing my own, believe it or not. Thank you for this :)

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

I did post this for the feedback and am not closed to other people's views or changing my own, believe it or not. Thank you for this :)

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Sorry, I could have worded it better. What I was trying to convey was that you are entitled to your opinion, even if I don't agree with it, and I wasn't going to try and say you were wrong just for having a different opinion.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

Someone got in early to derail my thread. You're just being silly, I hope you're trolling.

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He was sarcastically pointing out how stupid your post was. He did it rather well. Selling content has always been a part of every MMO, and especially FFXI--not that I like using FFXI as a reference to anything. If you don't like it, don't buy content. It makes no different to anything in the game.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

because other people will have to suffer when we get those buyers in groups through Duty Finder who don't know how to play or deal with game mechanics.

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This is also incorrect, as most people who buy gear won't be joining other groups in DF.

Selling runs in itself is fine. Going to other potential buyers raid and wiping them intentionally is not.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

SE, please make advertising the sale of HM/EX Primal runs with guaranteed loot a reportable/bannable offence.
Players should not be allowed to buy their way through content, because other people will have to suffer when we get those buyers in groups through Duty Finder who don't know how to play or deal with game mechanics.

Furthermore, there are groups making a lot of Gil from the proceeds of this which gives them an unfair advantage over others who aren't focused on benefiting from incapable players.

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Hi, I don't like the idea of selling help. But in fact each time you win a place like Titan HM there is somebody dead on the floor or that has died several times and raised while others on the team have not and carried him. FC helping members to get their relics is about the same as buying, the difference is the gil exchange.

I think what really upsets you (and probably me and everybody else) is the gil asked is super high, and probably also the fact you cannot afford it. If somebody asks 4.000 gil for melds to your pre-relic weapon you probably don't get upset and pay happily, and feel thankful to the crafter that helped you. I suspect that if they sold Titan HM for an affordable price nobody would be so upset, and many many people would pay (probably after having tried many times.) Anyway we all feel better if we win without paying.

For what others have written, people who pay most times is not necessarily a worse player. I suppose they are in a hurry, or desperate because the real difficulty is finding a group, have the gil and don't have anything better to spend the gil on.

Calling other players incapable doesn't sound well, don't you think? Of course there are people more skilled than others, quicker reflexes, better awareness of the environment, much more experience, etc. And with better ping too in the case of Titan.

What you call incapable players are all the time being carried by their friends or by PF groups. I suppose you have been in PF groups, for exampe for Ultima HM, where the creator of the group requires very high ilevel, united to experience, to enter the group, and then is the one who dies several times each run. This until he obtains a group that wins. (I don't say this happens always, but it does sometimes.)

I see also that guaranteed loot upsets you. I think this really is because you can't afford it. To obtain the loot you have to win usually many many times. Some are lucky and obtain it quickly, some never get it and give up. If somebody wants to spend a gil fortune on that, that's their choice. There are other ways to obatin good weapons, that also need a whole lot of time farming tomes. I suppose the ones who have gil fortunes have also spent a whole lot of time obtaining it, maybe crafting. Crafting also helps others a lot.

I was not referring solely to a person's skill level or ability directly. Incapable: unable to do or achieve (something).
Could be a variety of reasons why someone is not capable of clearing something like Titan Extreme.
I still feel my original point has been missed, I'm not going to point out the difference between having a party kill Titan for you and someone melding your materia for a tip/fee.

It seems I didn't get what is your main point. If it is you will meet that player in DF and he is not skilled, he will also be unskilled if he has a worse weapon. The better weapon he has, the better for you.

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

Furthermore, there are groups making a lot of Gil from the proceeds of this which gives them an unfair advantage over others who aren't focused on benefiting from incapable players.

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There are people selling things they gather or craft on the Market Board who are making a lot of gil off of the proceeds of this, which gives them an unfair advantage over others who aren't focused on benefiting from players who don't want to level a DoL/DoH. Please make selling things you gather or craft on the Market Board an reportable/bannable offense.

my thoughts on this is more power to them if they are making money so be it they are much more dedicated then me. i myself would never buy a clear or gear, i would rather enjoy the fun of doing it myself. However, its a game and if people or guilds come up with cleaver ways to make gil so be it. the only way to prevent this is to stop buying their product. just like any company if the consumers stop buying their products then they will go out of buisness. However i was confused he other day when i saw a group offing services to recieve atma. not real sure how that would work but i am sure some folks took advantage.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

You can always spot the buyers. Like the one blm in CT who let his mp run out and wiped us on Atomos a couple times cause he had no idea what transpose did or how to get his mp back. Yet he was in full myth gear and had a zenith. Either he bought his gil and everything else or he just flat out bought his account. We just had one guy get kicked from our fc for openly talking about buying his account.

Buying runs only becomes a problem when you start wiping other ppls pts

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that sounds more like a bought account and that is terrible

oh.....this thread......again.....cry more please

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

SE, please make advertising the sale of HM/EX Primal runs with guaranteed loot a reportable/bannable offence.
Players should not be allowed to buy their way through content, because other people will have to suffer when we get those buyers in groups through Duty Finder who don't know how to play or deal with game mechanics.

Furthermore, there are groups making a lot of Gil from the proceeds of this which gives them an unfair advantage over others who aren't focused on benefiting from incapable players.

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Then by that logic, what about people who got carried? What about people who got past some fight with echo buff? What about people who fate-farmed a job to 50 and never used it in party?

Do you want to ban these people too?