Time for a small BLM buff?

So 2.2 has come, and as expected, no balance changes...
Now that we're looking forward to 2.2.1, etc... May we consider a small buff to the "currently weak" - as Yoshi put it, BLM?

Very simple. Add a -10% magic damage resistance buff to Thunder... Maybe just Thunder 3 if we dont want to make it "too" OP.

Since bards very... VERY rarely play Foe's, and nowadays tend to save their mana for Manasong on important boss fights, casters are essentially down 10% dps for most of the important fights in the game.
By adding a 10% magic resist damage debuff to the Thunder series, which is THM/BLM exclusive, then we can improve BLM's dps, without really affecting much else balance wise.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

So 2.3 has come, and as expected, no balance changes...
Now that we're looking forward to 2.3.1, etc... May we consider a small buff to the "currently weak" - as Yoshi put it, BLM?

Very simple. Add a -10% magic damage resistance buff to Thunder... Maybe just Thunder 3 if we dont want to make it "too" OP.

Since bards very... VERY rarely play Foe's, and nowadays tend to save their mana for Manasong on important boss fights, casters are essentially down 10% dps for most of the important fights in the game.
By adding a 10% magic resist damage debuff to the Thunder series, which is THM/BLM exclusive, then we can improve BLM's dps, without really affecting much else balance wise.

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2.2....we have 3 months before 2.3...


2.25 is supposed to be the rebalancing Patch anyway. Some people are saying that its going to focus on PvP (more armor/ranks/skills) and we know that Zodiac Weapons are getting a boost in 2.25 as well. So roughly a month and a half from now we may see Class/Job alterations for balancing. Don't see any BLM/Caster DPS buffs so much as WHM/SCH buff/balances.

What? BLM weak?

A permanent Foe's Requiem attached to Thunder would be too strong if it applied to all magic sources, particularly SMN. If it only applied to BLM damage and didn't stack with other Thunders, that'd be something to consider.

I think BLM would be perfect if it just reverted to the 5-10% stronger DPS 2.0 BLM had from a much looser UI3 phase and the free Firestarter check from the first Fire after Fire III. The only reason SE nerfed the UI3 > AH3 qualities was to rectify double Flare rotations, but they should have just directly solved the issue without a nerf, IE given Flare an independent recast of 10 seconds or so regardless of GCD recast, resettable only by Convert/MP Potion so as to allow intended double/triple Flares.

Then instead of a debuff on the target, they could just make it a buff on ourselves.
+10% outgoing damage while an enemy is under the effect of Thunder... Nice and simple.

black mage are lowest single target dps right?XD getting bored of black mage too bad i can't switch to summoner since my group wants a blm >.<

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Originally Posted by LarsCroft

black mage are lowest single target dps right?XD getting bored of black mage too bad i can't switch to summoner since my group wants a blm >.<

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For ST, BLM is about second worst sustained, fight depending. A well-played BRD (which is much, much harder to optimize than BLM) could pull 300-320 DPS in full i90 + i95 weapon. BLM can be slightly higher, but only if no interruptions, and Foe's comes out. Usually BRD and BLM will be very similar in ST damage, but many fights favor BRDs more unless it's tank and spank like T1-5, with minimal moving.

In a fair fight, BLM will never beat DRG/MNK/SMN in ST, it's just not in the cards.

last time i check BLM doesn't build for sustained damage. BLM job is all about burst damage. (Titan Ex jail and add, for example). If you are playing BLM and hoping to get high sustained, I think you looking at the wrong class. BLM will never beat DRG/MNK/SMN on ST, they just doesn't build that way, but in a fight where a high burst or AoE (4+mobs)required, no other class come close to BLM.

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Originally Posted by Remn

last time i check BLM doesn't build for sustained damage. BLM job is all about burst damage. (Titan Ex jail and add, for example). If you are playing BLM and hoping to get high sustained, I think you looking at the wrong class. BLM will never beat DRG/MNK/SMN on ST, they just doesn't build that way, but in a fight where a high burst or AoE (4+mobs)required, no other class come close to BLM.

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Not always though. Their burst damage is highly rng based and when fs and tc doesn't proc, their burst is pretty abysmal.

Yeah, nothing like casting 5 Fire's and getting 0 FS procs.

I wonder though... How much would things change if the Firestarter trait was changed from a 40% change, to a simple stacking mechanic.

Every time you cast Fire, you get 1 stack of "Firestarter". When you have 2 stacks, your next Fire 3 is free and instant.
Now the key thing would be the buff timing. We know that generally, if a cast is ~80% complete, you can move without breaking it. Lets apply that as a mechanic here. When you are casting Fire, if the spell gets to 80%, then it cannot be interrupted, AND THAT is when you get the proc.

In effect, this would turn the rotation into: Fire (1 stack) - Fire (2nd stack proc at 80% of cast) - Fire 3 -Fire (1 stack) - Fire (2nd stack proc at 80% of cast) - Fire 3 - Fire (out of mana) - Blizzard 3... And when we use an Ice spell, we automatically lose all stacks of "Firestarter".

Potency wise, right now we do 5 Fire's per cycle, and for procs we have 5*.4 = 2 procs, so on average we "should" have 5 Fires and 2 Fire 3's during each cycle.
Well with this change, we would have EXACTLY that, every time. This would provide PREDICTABLE burst to BLM, without affecting the long term dps.

Really the only time where this would increase BLM dps is if you use Convert after the 5th Fire to get enough mana for a 6th, then a Fire 3... But an extra 2 attacks every 3 minutes is not going to alter our sustained dps in a noticeable way.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

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I think it's an interesting suggestion. My feeling is that it would buff blm damage quite significantly. Why do I say this? Right now we only use our fs proc after the next Fire 1. Because we don't want to waste half a second to see if we get a proc on our fire 1 so we cast another fire in between the proc. I think if we know that we will get a proc every third fire we can actually use the same 80% concept to pre spam fire 3. it would certainly give our rotation more consistency.

One other thing I would like to see is blm having their own damage buff. we are the only job that doesn't have their own unique buff. drg has bfb, monk ir, bard has rs and summoners have rouse and spur but we have to use a cross class skill from a semi support class. This kinda sucks since in the job quest they touted us as wielders of destruction :>

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Originally Posted by skaterger

One other thing I would like to see is blm having their own damage buff. we are the only job that doesn't have their own unique buff. drg has bfb, monk ir, bard has rs and summoners have rouse and spur but we have to use a cross class skill from a semi support class. This kinda sucks since in the job quest they touted us as wielders of destruction :>

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I couldn't agree more. When I'm playing as DRG I have a choice of 2 buffs, and as BRD I have a crazy 4 damage buffs (and that's as a "support" class). Having only 1 damage buffing ability as a Wielder of Ultimate Destruction (TM) seems like an oversight.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

For ST, BLM is about second worst sustained, fight depending. A well-played BRD (which is much, much harder to optimize than BLM) could pull 300-320 DPS in full i90 + i95 weapon. BLM can be slightly higher, but only if no interruptions, and Foe's comes out. Usually BRD and BLM will be very similar in ST damage, but many fights favor BRDs more unless it's tank and spank like T1-5, with minimal moving.

In a fair fight, BLM will never beat DRG/MNK/SMN in ST, it's just not in the cards.

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You haven't seen an optimized BLM then. I can easily do over 300 sustained without foe and bad proc luck, and add multiple mobs and BLM kills it. Its easy to minimize interuptions, even in a fight meant to have many. Manawall, Manward, good placement and timing, easily top most bards as BLM. I find bard very easy to optimize, pulling 300 dps average at i87 w/elfin, optimizing BLM to do more than bard is a bit harder I find, as casts of choice to maximize can change depending on when mp tic and procs occur, Bard is very constant even with bloodletter procs, even though bard is more buttons pressed, I find it more challenging to max BLM, and easier to make mistakes on BLM as well(Leaving yourself too low on mp, cancelling cast).

I agree mostly with DRG/MNK/SMN top 3 however.

Yea it's kinda ridiculous BLM have one buff...and it's cross class >_>. Like come on lol

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

You haven't seen an optimized BLM then. I can easily do over 300 sustained without foe and bad proc luck, and add multiple mobs and BLM kills it. Its easy to minimize interuptions, even in a fight meant to have many. Manawall, Manward, good placement and timing, easily top most bards as BLM. I find bard very easy to optimize, pulling 300 dps average at i87 w/elfin, optimizing BLM to do more than bard is a bit harder I find, as casts of choice to maximize can change depending on when mp tic and procs occur, Bard is very constant even with bloodletter procs, even though bard is more buttons pressed, I find it more challenging to max BLM, and easier to make mistakes on BLM as well(Leaving yourself too low on mp, cancelling cast).

I agree mostly with DRG/MNK/SMN top 3 however.

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From my experience, BLM is 300-330 without Foe's, without any interruptions. BRD is 300-320 without DRG buff, but it's consistent. BRD vs BLM depends on a lot of things: ratio of BRDs to BLM, if a DRG is in the party, the fight's duration (short fights where BRDs go HAM won't leave much room for BLM to catch up even with slightly superior average sustained), and the fight (try as you might to mitigate movement, something like Eruptions in Ifrit EM will make you lose DPS even with a Firestarter and Swiftcast saved and Aetherial back to the group while BRD loses absolutely nothing). Also if it's a multi-DoT fight vs AoE - BRD beats BLM in T1, for instance, just because BLM gets minimal DPS gain from two enemies unless you score crazy 5% chance procs to multi-DoT properly while a BRD multi-DoTing can score 360+ from throwing out constant Windbites and VBs.

If anything I have beef with SMN just being a better choice for lots of content. Lots of movement like T6? SMN wins. Primarily ST or 2-3 enemy fight? SMN wins. Ranged with same caster LB, better Heavy option, battle raise, less affected by movement, more sustained, better Virus, less CD on E4E, ridiculous DPS when multi-DoTing can occur, and with proper planning with Bane + Fester + ED if needed, its burst is terrifying for a DoT class.