I wanted to know what the stakes are for the dev teams:
1) How long are the big guys up stairs giving you to turn this game around before they want to start charging? When would you want to if there is none?
2) what kind of limits are holding you back (team size, budget restrictions)
3) Would they let this game get shut down if its not doing well soon?
After i saw the thing about another MMO coming and that they wanted to have "2-3" big MMOs running, it made me question how much the big guys are willing to spend (time/money) on this game.
id seriously like to hear what the devs thoughts are with some solid answers. Im sure other players would too, because right now, this MMO not doing well and other BIG games on the way, its hard to stay tuned to a game thats still barely on its feet after 8-9 moths of constant patches.
Whats the new Dev teams time limit?
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07-06-2011, 02:13 AMZanfireWhats the new Dev teams time limit?
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07-06-2011, 02:27 AMsyntaxlies
by the time they have this game good the other mmos will be launching their first expansion packs.
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07-06-2011, 02:31 AMSepix
They wont shut it down ... never.
The reason for it is simple ... it has a main number. If FINAL FANTASY XIV dies you can be sure it is the end of the series. It just doesnt look good if a main numbered title dies. -
07-06-2011, 02:31 AMquantumsaint
1. We're not thinking about charging at this time. Right now, we just want to make the game as good as possible.
2. Due to the server-side interface, many things that should be easy are proving more difficult than anticipated. After some restructuring, it should be a lot easier to implement many of the features that everyone is asking for now.
3. Because FFXIV is built off the profits of FFXI, and not backed by investors in the traditional game design sense, there is no danger of FFXIV going offline for the foreseeable future.
Super paraphrasing Yoshi-P here, but he pretty much has addressed all of those issues in interviews. S-E predicted most of their revenue moving toward being based online. They will throw money at this until it is profitable. -
07-06-2011, 02:33 AMZanfirewith the amount thats been done and the fact that they made it seem like they were putting everything they had into making this game work, i just dont get whats going on. would be nice to hear some straight up facts as to whats really going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
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07-06-2011, 02:34 AMZanfireAre you really that sure? I dont think the # means they will loose money on the game for prides sake, they are a business first and foremost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepix
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07-06-2011, 02:37 AMSepixYeah i am sure. Because they want to keep the name FINAL FANTASY for future profit. They would loose more money in the future for scrapping it than holding it alive on the bare minimum. How many profitable games have they actually released that they made themselfes (not published) that did not have the name FINAL FANTASY on it in some way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
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07-06-2011, 02:39 AMZanfireI know they said these things before, but they are all pretty blank statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumsaint
1)They clearly need to charge sometime soon, their money is not infinite...and at some point they will realize its not going to make them money (if it comes to that, which it can)
2) that excuse is old, and if its still whats slowing them down, they are doing a poor job doing their jobs.
3)again same as #1, they are a business and wont want to throw all of FFXI's profits down the toilet, nor will FFXI be making buckets of money for too much longer, its getting old and with the lack of expansions/add-pack and PS2 limits, it will only be around for so long. -
07-06-2011, 02:40 AMXatsh
No one outside of Square can answer this and I highly doubt they will. Here are some recent statements from Wada who would probably be in control of making that call.
According to Wada most recent press releases and Financial Report. (all of these can be found at Square Enix investor relations)
- FFXIV will take some more time before it is ready but we believe it is on track. (Press Release before the financial statements)
- Repairing and restoring faith in the current released mmos. (Recent primary goal of the 2010 Financial Report for the next year)
- We will not put more money into mmos titles until the current ones become profitable (Press Release)
From Yoshida's Interview.
-PS3 release will be considered FFXIV's last chance.
So atm it seems they are going to continue to back it until PS3, if that fails the game will probably be scraped.
And despite what people want to hear, we demanded a drastic change in the game's fundamental elements and we got a new development team. IF tanka was still here we would of had more major content patchs... the whole company system, and co-op building thing they showed was scheduled for the march massive content update... which was scrapped with Yoshida.
So yes the game has been out about year, but atm it has only been in development for ~6 1/2 months with 1/2 a month involving the earthquake disaster. And they had to rewrite the core mechanics of the game and redesign the whole games focus.
So in the end it will take SE time to basically remake the game. Chances are GW2, Tera, TOR will be out before this game truly gets to the point it will shine. IN the end if you want to play a FF game play this, if not play one of the other games.
This game will never hit the million sub mark most likely, it will never be considered a Massive success, it will never be the "WoW killer" In the end play it if you like it, quit if you don't. -
07-06-2011, 02:41 AMZanfireNot many, but loosing 1 FF name will not suddenly get people to stop buying their games, especially if they make more that are still big hits...after this many games and years, they have a fanbase that will buy almost anything with the name in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepix
Also FFXI wont be around forever, liek every MMO it will one day shut down, so that alone says your incorrect. -
07-06-2011, 02:44 AMZanfire
@ Xatsh
"- We will not put more money into mmos titles until the current ones become profitable (Press Release)"
yet they are working on a new MMO, which they are going to announce this year. -
07-06-2011, 02:45 AMviion
probably still has same conflicts it had before.
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07-06-2011, 02:45 AMkukurumeiThat's a lie simply because there is no such thing as one project funding another for a big company like SE. And more realistically SE is in so much trouble lately, there isn't such a thing as "profits" even then.Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumsaint
FF14 isn't being washed because it's too big of a moral blow, and there is still the hope of all hope it can be saved to make a modest profit over the long run.
Time is short for FF14 though as both east and west are gearing up for the hype destruction of the next wave of hot MMO names, if it can't get some momentum then, it's "The Last Remnant"-ed.
We'll see a cut off point in the not to distant future whether it lives or dies.
For Japan at least, Phantasy Star online 2 alpha test is beginning soon. We'll see how high the hype meter there is...That's like a very home-turf rival there. -
07-06-2011, 02:47 AMquantumsaint
Think about it like this, Microsoft entered console development knowing they would most likely take a loss on the original Xbox, now they are sitting pretty this gen. Basically, their model was "throw money at it until it becomes profitable." That's exactly what S-E is doing right now. They may be losing money (we really don't know), but PS3 release will sell copies, and coupled with subscription fees, will allow them to be very profitable even with a small userbase. You're just not looking at the big picture.
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07-06-2011, 02:57 AMBlitz0309
1) How long are the big guys up stairs giving you to turn this game around before they want to start charging? When would you want to if there is none?
1 speculation) Probably whenever they think they will have people stick around and be willing to pay for their product. If they started charging now i'm sure they'd loose a majority of their beta testers. Hell all of my friends that bought the game at launch have already tossed(or lost) their copies.
2) what kind of limits are holding you back (team size, budget restrictions)
2 speculation) No idea, they aren't open about anything. Its progression is far too slow regardless. Though i would imagine the budget isn't huge, or the team size. At least not as big as it should be for their flag ship title. Seeing how the original final fantasy saved Square, you'd think they would at least return the favor.
3) Would they let this game get shut down if its not doing well soon?
3 speculation) If the game never recovers its player base and the initial stigma this game has stains it indeterminately i'm sure they'll shut it down. Then again, i could see them just merging worlds down to a bare base server and leaving a skeleton crew to man it just to spite the critics as well. If anything they did sell a few copies of the game, so the hardware costs for the game are paid probably, and bandwidth/power to keep it going is pretty cheap.
To be honest i'm hoping they make this game worth a damn. That's the only reason i still read these forums, well that and boredom at work. I'm hoping their ideas pan out and its fun.. but really in my mind they need to scrap the armory system and just put in a basic class/sub class system (or even skill tree based). That is something that would make me enjoy this game, but i don't see them doing that. But after reading letters, patch notes, and everything i'm still betting that when they come to ask us to pay month fees that i kill my account.
When i log in to ffxi, i'm reminded of all the good times i had. Even when i updated ffxiv and login i'm just reminded that its a tedious boring game.. i don't know if that feeling is ever going to go away without a whipe and a new slate. -
07-06-2011, 02:58 AMRydin
Every single game in the history of video games loses money...
I will go as far as saying every single product loses money...
in the R&D phase...
We all know the game wasn't ready... ALL of these big companies take forever to release the big ones... How long has SWTOR been in development? guild wars II?
When a game is in development it is not making money... but it is costing money...
that is, in essence, what development is. SE always takes a long time to release games... they just pushed this one out too soon... but that doesn't actually cost them any extra money... Had they waited and this game still wasn't released, financially they would be in the same position... the same position they've been in on every game they've ever made
The only negative to come out of this was the stock price fell due to bad publicity causing some very angry shareholders
When they say the lost money, what they are saying is "They didn't make as much money as the were projected to make this year" because the predictions were based on a finished game.
But again... had they delayed the release, they would be in the same financial position, just with a better stock price...
What they are doing now is no different than a delayed release.. just with some extra negative buzz to go with it...
Saying there is a time frame that the game has to be finished is silly...
Every game has that deadline push...
Look at this as just another SE game release delay... because thats all it is... and lets be honest.. SE delays everything so this isn't new territory for them
tl;dr SE isn't losing any more money on this game than they have on every other game they've released -
07-06-2011, 03:10 AMZanfireThere is a BIG difference between a company starting up a console compared to a single game. Not only that, but the orginal Xbox was not put out with everyone and their mothers pissed at it or severely disapointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumsaint
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07-06-2011, 03:13 AMZanfireIts a very different situation when you are still working on it, and working on it after releasing it to reactions of massive dissapointment and then loosing huge amounts of potential players. Then dragging out the fixing of the game. It wont be in good condition for another year at this pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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07-06-2011, 03:13 AMWolfie
Fixed FF14 is the new Duke Nukem Forever.
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07-06-2011, 03:13 AMRydinI've said this time and time again... people love a good train wreck...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
The game will sell well on PS3... that is a foregone conclusion....
The Japanese PS3 numbers alone will be higher than the worldwide PC numbers
But the fixes and additions they are doing now will determine how many people stay with the game...
And that is something I just can't predict -
07-06-2011, 03:58 AMZanfireI dont think anyone can, i have personally never seen any MMO in this situation, so its all up in the air. After 1.18 or at least the summer set of patches are done (the big overhauls) i would expect a lot more out of them since they have supposedly layed down their personal groundwork. Up til now its been unbareably slow, with little to show and a chunk of it not being very good or half baked ("lets make it bigger!" ring any bells)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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07-06-2011, 04:28 AMRydinThis game is breaking new ground also...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
the PS3 MMO market is largely untapped... the Japanese MMO market is largely untapped
Monster Hunter is HUGE in Japan... even on Wii many people are going online to play....
The console MMO market is ripe for penetration...
Whether SE can do it with FFXIV... I don't know... none of us do...
To the people that say it wont do well... The research suggests that it definitely still has a chance
Imagine if the game launched on PC after 1.8 instead of back in 2010... You think more people would have stayed? -
07-06-2011, 04:35 AMDreamer
One thing that people seem to be completely overlooking is the fact that they're doing a dual-development cycle. Meaning that all the changes they're making have to be made for both the PC and PS3 platform, unless they want to kill a bunch of time later going to back to redo all of this for the PS3 version. In addition, you can also bet that many of the changes they're having to make also effect the Crystal Toolset (or whatever it's called). In essence, they're having to design/build/implement/debug on three different fronts.
The good news, however, that like they've said, once this is done, future updates should be much more rapid than what we're seeing now. Things like new dungeons, raids, quests, etc should all be fairly quickly after they've finished with the primary problems plaguing the game. -
07-06-2011, 04:46 AMAvaI highly doubt they will shut the game down. Worst case scenario I'd imagine is the game going f2p with microtransaction support. If you look at the recent statements from SE and the statistics for gaming in general, microtransactions ARE the future. I hate it, but I can't deny the numbers. f2p with microtransactions has become incredibly popular recently (moreso recently than in the past). I would probably stop playing if that were to happen because I disagree with microtransactions in MMORPGs, but SE (along with other large companies like EA and Activision) report DLC/microtransactions as their highest profiting area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
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07-06-2011, 09:39 AMkukurumeiThat's not true, as a developer once said on record, it's pretty much 90% hype in the gaming business. This is what is number crunched to be the projected revenue return.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
That is now gone and possibility an even smaller team then before release.
They are never going to make that back, never, so in a sense, they have "lost" the money. It's not totally logical, but that's how accounting works. Projected cost and revenue are still on the books costs and revenue.
In the end, it's a bigger mental blow then anything. The brand name is critically important to SE. That's also how the gaming industry works, and why your halos and CoD and everything else can sell millions of people that basically "don't know crap" about it. If they can't sell and redeem FF14, then all future FFs are going to suffer.
And that's literally billions in the long run...assuming there is a future. -
07-06-2011, 10:04 AMRydinDon't you think people love a train wreck though? people will get the game on PS3 so at the very least, they can join in the hate....Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
Not only that, but a 35+ FAMITSU score guarantees at least 500k in Japan alone...
I agree that a good PC launch would have meant 1 million on PC and at least 2 mill worldwide on PS3 (With many people staying after the free month)
but all is still not lost and the game can reposition itself to be popular... just requires more work and definitely a lot more marketing now