Is it okay to stay an archer?

And not advance into Bard, or will I just be gimping the character?

You'll be gimping your character and party. The soulstone alone adds quite a bit to your primary stat, you won't have access to your songs to restore party MP or TP, and you won't have access to your relic or AF/Mythology gear

Having said that though, you're still free to do whatever you wish when you're solo though, it's just the Job adds far too much benefit to your base class in a party - think of your Job not as a separate 'class', but rather just an extension of it (the Job has all of the class's abilities after all and uses the same weapon, it just specializes in that class's strengths).

Surprisingly, the issue isn't whether or not BRD or ARC is better than the other. I think it just boils down to the Soul Crystal being a great piece of equipment, and BRD has no drawbacks for an ARC.

Since ARC cannot "wear" a Soul Crystal without being a BRD, that makes BRD better.

I think BRD actually has a number of drawbacks when you are soloing but it is much better for parties. I swap back and forth depending on what I am doing.

I leveled an ARC to 50 and though I switched to BRD for groups it was rarely useful and the ARC got more useful cross-class skills than BRD, especially for solo leveling.

I just don't 'get' BRD based on ARC, seems to me there's little similarity in the traditional 'bard' concept and an archer, I much preferred BRD in FFXI where they had an entirely different and class-unique playstyle to the RNG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wannabesuperman

BRD has no drawbacks for an ARC.

---

Many ARCs would dissagree with that - and that's valid for any other Class vs. Job (dis-)advantages - as while being job / having soul crystal equppied you have only half of the possible crossclass skill slots and those are much more limited than on basic class. Those are however mainly usefull in solo or when running with nonstandard parties.

I beg to differ. While it's true you get more crossclass options, how many of those are very useful, especially outside of what bed can use?

In addition, you take a major hit to your stats. Switching to the job gives a stat boost on its own, and a lot of the easier endgame gear like artifact and relic equipment are job exclusive.

Simply put if you want to do coil Bard is a must. Very doubtful any groups would take an archer
Some cross classes i did miss but you get used to it.

There are 0 solo encounters at-or-below level or endgame encounters where you can say you "needed" Stoneskin, Foresight, Bloodbath, Fracture, Provoke, Awareness, Protect, Cure/Physick, Raise, Swiftcast, Virus, E4E, Flash, SavageBlade/SkullSunder, or Mercy Stroke as an Archer. If you want to argue the point, you're delusional or being lazy about unlocking BRD. But feel free to come up with a scenario where you legitimately think any of those matter. Even if you do not use songs as a BRD (which is also lazy, if nothing else do Requiem for proactive healers), you're missing nothing from the extra Archer cross-classes.

while levelling...its forgivable for a bard to go to 35 as archer, but u really want that lvl 35 song.

The problem is that for my planned character, bard just doesn't fit the character.

Really hope we get Ranger soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

while levelling...its forgivable for a bard to go to 35 as archer, but u really want that lvl 35 song.

---

What exactly do you mean by this?

Please elaborate

The level 35 bard song is Foe's Requiem:
Reduces all enemy elemental resistance by 10%. MP is drained while singing. Effect is lost if targets move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used with other songs.

Beautiful when playing with black mages and summoners. Even handy when fate grinding with other people. Again, not that great when soloing.

Still don't seem to be understanding.

Under the impression that both archer and bard can both be leveled to 50

And if that's the case, then why the comment about leveling archer being forgivable?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadow_Viper_vX

Still don't seem to be understanding.

Under the impression that both archer and bard can both be leveled to 50

And if that's the case, then why the comment about leveling archer being forgivable?

---

Because aside from grinding fates over and over in one area after another, the best leveling method is dungeons... meaning you won't have songs to support those you're partied with in the dungeons. best fix is to go bard in dungeons and outside of it just play as your own playstyle.

(Personally, I don't mind killing slow (as long as it dies) with me starting off as a healer and all in the first place, I'm use to not pulling off that much dps compared to a fully buffed dps so I just stick on my jobs to avoid the 'whoops, I forgot my soulstone' (before 50 and myth and all that jazz) situations.) :x

However that is my own playstyle and everyone has their own so just follow yours. :)

hmm. i agree with everyone that in group content you really should be bard. songs are just too great of support skills to ignore. however i also believe that for soloing purposes being an archer is better. you can argue that the higher stats of the bard is superior to the selection of cross class skills available to you, i'll argue the flexibility increases survivability. one of the things i absolutely adore about archer/bard is the ability to run'n'gun. a perfect kite is rare though, and being able to immobilize your opponent and patch yourself up can be a godsend. even more-so when soloing FATE bosses. the last time i solo'd a FATE boss as a bard and had to sit there watching my potion/2nd wind cds praying i wouldnt take an unlucky string of hits was so darn nerve wracking. having access to cure/stoneskin/bloodbath wouldve made that fight a breeze lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadow_Viper_vX

Still don't seem to be understanding.

Under the impression that both archer and bard can both be leveled to 50

And if that's the case, then why the comment about leveling archer being forgivable?

---

Clarifying point - bard and archer level together. Leveling one levels the other.
I believe the comment is as Lillia said that the leveling process is usually done in groups and bard is preferred for group content. Sessurea was saying that between 30-34 groups will care less which one you use because the level 30 song is only for mana recovery and primarily only of benefit to white mages. That being said, having a bard with a white mage in Brayflox is *really* helpful.

What do you mean by your planned character exactly? If it is a matter of playing a ranged dps non-caster, bard is currently your only choice. You'll be expected to toggle on mp or tp songs from time to time, but it should not be on all the time. Additionally, certain songs like foe requiem do not reduce your damage while it is active. It is just a matter of learning which songs to use and when. For the most part, you may activate mp song for up to 1 minute in endgame fights. For most dungeons though, it is not strictly necessary although very helpful if you have a less than efficient white mage or are speed-running. If you want, you can wait for the musketeer class that's rumored to come out. There is no clear date on it though, nor details on its abilities (we may or may not get singing pirates). If it is a vague character concept you want, I can't really help you there. The skillset on bard and the future musketeer/corsair class may not mesh with your "ranger" concept. Specify and maybe we can give you some suggestions about how to do that.

Otherwise though, bard is a job that provides immediate benefit for the archer in terms of party utility and stats. The cross-class abilities you lose are not so important if you are aiming to deal damage. You still retain the all-important crit buffs and damage buffs from pugilist and lancer. You also gain a very powerful party buff with mage ballad. Monks, Dragoons, and especially Blackmages get a short stick in comparison to you. They lose a lot more useful crpss-class choices for lackluster job abilities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anova

What do you mean by your planned character exactly? -snip-

---

First off, sorry but the quote was a bit long... I hope you'll understand and they probably are a roleplayer and it doesn't match up with the story/battle style background they planned out for their character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lillia

First off, sorry but the quote was a bit long... I hope you'll understand and they probably are a roleplayer and it doesn't match up with the story/battle style background they planned out for their character.

---

Aye, doesn't match up with the 'feel'/theme of the character, the character in question I've had for quite sometime and always play different versions in RPGs, normally he's a ranger, a stealthy archer of the forests.

One of the easiest ways to place it is

Attack
Defence
Support

Job - Focus party Role in a bards case
attack -DPS- MAIN
support -Healing LB/ support songs SUB

Defence none / sub running around circles like a headless chicken.

Class

Attack DPS
Defence Higher Emnity Control with cross class abilities (can make sub party tank)
Support to counter sub class tank, archer has a massive amount of healer defensive support, cross class capabilities.

it is possible to make a sub tank class with an archer attrubutes main would be VIT instead of DEX

as with all tanks their attacks are much weaker than DPS

but you can reallot and regears to the support type gear for archer/brd.

it's another cross class like SMN/SCH

their mains stats are DoT and healing

but you swtich around a few points and gears (and pet) and its a whole new fun ball game

I refuse to take the job Bard for my future archer. The sole job I'll take is the ranger job when they'll have the good sense to release it. I don't see why arcanist is the only class with good job options (scholar as support/healer and summoner as DPS), while as an archer you're forced to do support against your will.

Not only did you revive a dead topic you are misinformed on Bard. It's almost entirely DPS. The most support you will be doing is throwing up a song here and there and the one you will probably have up the most doesn't hurt your DPS at all.

Well go into a dungeon and give it try. Experiment with it! U might actually like it better and with more cross class abilities u could support in other ways more than just singing.I have been thinking about conjurer from white mage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Korbash

I refuse to take the job Bard for my future archer. The sole job I'll take is the ranger job when they'll have the good sense to release it. I don't see why arcanist is the only class with good job options (scholar as support/healer and summoner as DPS), while as an archer you're forced to do support against your will.

---

If you solo its fine.

If you group with friends its fine.

If you use DF and PF that would be pretty rude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

Not only did you revive a dead topic

---

When people create new threads on old subjects, they're ridiculed for not searching the board, and told it's been discussed before. When people instead revive old threads on those same subjects, they're instead ridiculed for reviving dead threads. What do you expect? One way or the other, people are going to discuss topics they're interested in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

It's almost entirely DPS. The most support you will be doing is throwing up a song here and there and the one you will probably have up the most doesn't hurt your DPS at all.

---

I'm hoping that once they finally do create a Ranger job, they'll adjust the Bard job to have more songs and support skills. Right now, they're sort of trying to do two different things with that job, making it a sort of Ranger/Bard hybrid (which, despite the name, seems to tend more toward the Ranger side than Bard). Both jobs could probably be improved by separating them from each other.


But in the meantime, staying archer isn't viable for long past 30, because you lose out on the stat bonuses for switching to a job. Going Bard and treating it as though it were Ranger is somewhat more viable, at least when playing with friends who understand that's what you're doing. Treating Bard as Ranger in DF, on the other hand, just makes people think of you as a bad Bard who doesn't know when to use your songs.