RED MAGE and other jobs

Hi guys!!

I was allways been a fan of final fantasy XI but I couldnt play it...
I've seen the job classes and I'm amazed! Red Mage, Blue Mage, ¿Puppet Master? xDD

Heres the question: How long take for them to put thoose jobs one per one into the game? I mean, They add one new job yearlky or two jobs per year?

My favourite job in final fantasy world allways been Red Mage or Bard so.. I CANT WAIT for red mage. plus, I want to try Blue mage too, but I'm so lost without information or stuff about the jobs addition in this game; the way they will add thoose and the time it will take...


Any oppinions? (I'm spanish. That means english is not my mother tonge so, sorry if i failed or didnt I explained the question perfectly)

Game hasn't been out for a year yet. (ARR not original).

No one can say for certain how they will release, in what order, or when they will release new things. Its just a wait and see game.

I know that ^^

Its just... I need to know opinions from other players and meet ideas based on FFXI experience or players imagination itself.


(Plus, I cant wait for Red Mage)

From what I remember, they put out a new class or classes in most of the expansion pack. I think they were once a year or so.

Most likely the expansion for 3.0 will have new jobs. Not core game. However if RDM comes out its game on! Need to make it like whm and blm at least 30 for the job unlock followed by gladiator to 30 as well. Or whatever need 3 jobs unlocked for it make it somewhat a challenge.

If i remember right.

2003: Rize of Zilart (first expansion) samuria, ninja, and summoner.

2004: COP no new jobs (I remember the outcries when this happend) but heavy storyline.

2006: ToAU ; puppetmaster, blue mage, corsair. (this is when i stop playing)

2007: Wings of Goddess : dancer and scholar

2013: SoA; which included fencer and geomencer.

Lets see... Potential base classes for RDM, BLU, and PUP? CNJ/ACN with THM support (not many other choices after all) for RDM, GLA/THM with PGL for support for BLU (I'll explain this in a few lines..), PGL/MRD with LNC for PUP (couldn't think of much, so sue me).
The wierd combo for BLU is because all of the base skills of GLA could simply be augmented, such as removing emnity modifiers and replacing it with a debuff or buff ability. For example, replace Rage of Halone with Wrath of Halone, same potency, but adds STR +10% for 15sec to you, instead of STR down on enemy. Rest of the details I haven't worked out yet though, sorry, but it's a start, right?

With RDM classically being a sword and shield mage I would guess the base class would be GLD.

As to when? No idea but not soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Shadygrove

With RDM classically being a sword and shield mage I would guess the base class would be GLD.

As to when? No idea but not soon enough.

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Could easily just make a different base class that uses Epees, Rapiers, and other pointy-stabby swords. Fencer is a common suggestion.

If I had to pic a current class it would be the GLD.

RDM spells (at least same that was in FFXI) we can see mobs using those (enthunder , enfire , haste ) mostly used by beastmen & garlean . Also there's a weaponskills that GLA was able to use in 1.0 (Red lotus blade) were removed from GLA , but still i saw GLA type mobs use it . So my thoughts here is this w/skills were taken for be added to future RDM . Also those mobs spells already in game , and just need to be added to job and there we go :D
About PUP , i think situation is more difficult . 1st we already have "puppets" as a minions . Also by doing GSM quest line there clearly shown GSM guildmaster "have" "puppet" (+ look @ GSM job specific clothes they def remind PUP AF gear ) that way i think we have chances not to see PUP in XIV at all ( at least not same as it was in XI ? )
Blue Mage :O idk how SE going to add BLU in FFXIV ( because current battle system ) BLU used to learn spells from enemy , and in FFXIV we are getting skills/spells by doing class/job respective quest T.T. so before SE anounce BLU i in doubdt. (sorry for grammar , eng is not main lang)

In FFXIV many people are still very narrow minded thinking that RDM will be primarily a magic class. As we all know, weapons of choice in FFXIV determines your job. And can we all guess what is RDM's weapon of choice?? If you said SWORD & SHIELD you were spot on!! Having that said I believe RDM can be branched from the Gladiators (GLD).
Gladiators abilities are all made for a tank class and thats exactly what I think RDM should be. What could make RDM a great tank is its magical prowess!! I RDM learns a variety of buffs spell including the magnificent Phalanx!! A spell that raises defense sharply. So if we add the sword moves from the GLD ability set and 5 more moves (mainly magicks) as Job specific abilities for RDM we have an very good operating mage tank and RDM can still keep its title of "Jack of all trades"

As for those 5 job specific abilities; I have also been thinking about it and I believe this should be the 5 abilities when you become RDM:

lvl 30---> Cure II or some potent healing magic (since GLD/CNJ = PLD the only there option is GLD/THM which means no healing magic for it)

lvl 35---> Lightning II or some powerful attacking magic

lvl 40---> ??? ability - this ability exchanges or turns all strength or some attribute (primarily from tanks gear) into INT/MND and the more the RDM uses magic the more enmity the RDM will receive (this ability is the key for RDM tanking to keep all the enmity as a mage tank)

lvl 45---> En"element" - this will raises RDM attack for more damage (of course it will work much better with lvl 40 ability off)

lvl 50--->. Phalanx - the supreme defensive magic (raises RDM defense for more survivability)

Yeah I would have said that they would only really release the new classes/jobs with the expansion but there are a few people that have noted that Yoshi P intends to release them during the major patches instead. Not sure where they got their source from, might be worth looking at.

I think with some reworking there are enough base classes to add the majority of new jobs like Red Mage, Blue Mage etc. keeping in mind that we're likely to get a thief dual wielder and a gunner class eventually.

We'd also need some kind of two-handed sword fighter before we can get Samurai. I can't see them being able to rework glad or mara into a sam, it'd be weird, so we're likely to see some kind of new fighter based on that.

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Originally Posted by Efuren

In FFXIV many people are still very narrow minded thinking that RDM will be primarily a magic class. As we all know, weapons of choice in FFXIV determines your job. And can we all guess what is RDM's weapon of choice?? If you said SWORD & SHIELD you were spot on!! Having that said I believe RDM can be branched from the Gladiators (GLD).
Gladiators abilities are all made for a tank class and thats exactly what I think RDM should be. What could make RDM a great tank is its magical prowess!! I RDM learns a variety of buffs spell including the magnificent Phalanx!! A spell that raises defense sharply. So if we add the sword moves from the GLD ability set and 5 more moves (mainly magicks) as Job specific abilities for RDM we have an very good operating mage tank and RDM can still keep its title of "Jack of all trades"

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think i just came a little...

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Originally Posted by Ixpheon

Yeah I would have said that they would only really release the new classes/jobs with the expansion but there are a few people that have noted that Yoshi P intends to release them during the major patches instead. Not sure where they got their source from, might be worth looking at.

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It's from this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Release-Plan

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Originally Posted by Ixpheon

We'd also need some kind of two-handed sword fighter before we can get Samurai. I can't see them being able to rework glad or mara into a sam, it'd be weird, so we're likely to see some kind of new fighter based on that.

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They could possibly make it work with monk and dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Efuren

Gladiators abilities are all made for a tank class and thats exactly what I think RDM should be.

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There are 2 big problems with your idea.

First off, even if you came up with 5 entirely new class abilities for RDM branching off of GLA, it would still play like a PLD 99% of the time. PLD provides 2 basically passive abilities (SwO and ShO), 2 highly situational abilities (HG and Cover), and 1 attack (Spirits Within). Everything that isn't effectively passive is off-GCD, which means that their GCD use is identical. This problem is going to occur any time you try to have a new job with the same role as an existing job for that class: too much of a class/job's functionality is loaded onto the class that you can't make 2 jobs for the same class that fulfill the same role without having them play identically.

Secondly, your loadout doesn't actually work for a tank. Casting while you're tanking means that you're going to get interrupted all the time because you're getting punched in the face so melee casting is basically out, and your tank stance doesn't even reduce required healing (either by reducing damage taken in some way or increasing healing received) so it would be an explicitly subpar tank from a mechanical standpoint. Also, there would be no need to have an INT/MND swap ability given that it's entirely possible for the devs to choose to have certain abilities use a physical stats instead of magical stats (Flash is a magical attack but it is based upon PLD physical attack power).

Other stuff to consider, though RDM is traditionally a sword user, it has always used lighter swords, such as rapiers as opposed to the big honkin' broadswords that GLD ends up with nor was it ever a user of heavy armor, which GLA also gets. It also isn't a shield using class in a vast majority of its implementations (the only FF that actually gives an explicit RDM a shield is the first and their shields are actually bucklers or cloaks, such as would be used in fencing) so coming off of GLA seems even less likely.

In all likelihood, if we get RDM, it will be built off of its own class because it just wouldn't work being built off of any other and will either be a DPS or the devs will add the new hybrid role Yoshi has actually referred to (which would be a role that can swap between DPS, healer, and tank in the middle of a fight; likely putting out ~80% of the DPS of a "real" DPS normally and being able to swap to effective tanking or heals for short periods as demanded by the situation).

RDM could be a tank, but I don't see any reason for it to play like it did in XI. Traditionally RDM are jacks of all trades who dabble a bit in white magic, a bit in black magic and can melee a bit while never being terribly great at anything. XI took this and players managed to make a really awesome class out of it. However for XIV, I don't see any one class/job getting stats good enough to do everything. There's no point in a tank being able to heal itself if their heals are poor, or having attack magic if their int is poor. To be a GLD based tank means they will have high vit to begin with, and we all know how good PLD cures are. Unless the soul stone did something silly like give out +50 in stats, and you'd have to use melded gear of every main stat to be able to use everything

If anything Red mage would have to be a starting class and could have wizard as a job, if only to get a suitable stat spread and abilities that would work with their lowered stats across the board.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

There's no point in a tank being able to heal itself if their heals are poor, or having attack magic if their int is poor.

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Stats aren't remotely problematic given that the abilities themselves determine whether they use physical or magical attack power to determine their effects. It's entirely possible for a physical class to get a targeted heal that uses their own attack power and there are already "magical" attacks that use physical attack power (Flash and Circle of Scorn). Whether an ability uses physical or magical attack power is completely arbitrary. The only reason that PLD heals are terrible is because they're forced to use a heal that uses magic. If RDM were to be a DEX or STR class, you can be pretty sure that their "spells" would use attack power rather than magic power.

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Unless the soul stone did something silly like give out +50 in stats

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That wouldn't help at all, actually, since a vast majority of your attribute points come from gear. Because of this, no class is going to actually use more than 1 stat because there's no way to build up multiple stats to a functional point.

I don't see RDM coming off GLA. RDM is mostly about magic, not tanking, or melee like GLA. Really the current system doesn't do well for RDM. The only way I see the system working is if they add a new twist or two, like the job now uses different equipment from the base class. Right now, CNJ is probably the closest to RDM with Cleric Stance, but obvious it's weapon is a poor fit for the RDM style. GLA's alt job is probably going to be DPS as, already mentioned, two tanks from it would play around 90% the same.

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Originally Posted by Derekloffin

RDM is mostly about magic, not tanking, or melee like GLA. Really the current system doesn't do well for RDM.

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Classically, RDM is actually just as much about melee as it is about magic, whether black or white. The point of the job has always been to be moderately effective at everything (decent melee damage, decent survivability, decent magic damage, decent healing) without actually being particularly *good* at anything. The current system would work just fine for RDM as long as they have it so that all of their abilities, both melee and magical, use the same stat (whether it be STR, DEX, or INT) which, as I've said before, is not even remotely problematic.

The only real "problem" with RDM is that, as the archetypal hybrid job, it doesn't fit into the trinity design, which means that they would either be shoehorned into a DPS role which largely eliminates their WHM capabilities (or simply translates the WHM into support type abilities akin to the BRD songs) or the devs would need to alter the design of the game to accommodate an entirely new "hybrid" role for which the RDM would be the archetype (much like WHM is the archetype for the healer role or PLD is the archetype for the tank role).

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Classically, RDM is actually just as much about melee as it is about magic, whether black or white.

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While I agree that they have had melee ability and are supposed to be a jack of all, being 1/3 melee still makes them mostly about magic (and historically, the overwhelming majority of their abilities have been magical in nature, really nothing much at all is focused on melee other than their ability to equip heavier armor and weapons than whm or blm), and thus a very poor fit for GLA which has 0 magic. You can make the new abilities work with whatever stat, sure, but that doesn't change the fundamental problem that it would be built on a class completely ill suited to the match up save it's weapon type being the most similar which could just as easily be fixed with the same contrivance of programming.

I do agree that biggest issue is that a hybrid job currently has no place in this hard trinity that we currently have.

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Originally Posted by Derekloffin

While I agree that they have had melee ability and are supposed to be a jack of all, being 1/3 melee still makes them mostly about magic (and historically, the overwhelming majority of their abilities have been magical in nature, really nothing much at all is focused on melee other than their ability to equip heavier armor and weapons than whm or blm)

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If you only look at the previous incarnations of classes, no non-magic class is going to do much of anything since the physical attack option has always basically been "attack". The fact that RDM was, based on its stats, equally effective at magic and physical effect, both offensive, defensive, and support, means that it wasn't a 3 way split between physical, white, and black magic; it was a 2 way split between physical and magic. Remember: back before the MMOs, the only real physical attack was "attack" (at most, a class would have 1 other special physical but it was always of situational use compared to straight up attack). Whether a class is more melee/ranged/etc. should therefore be governed by the relative allotment of its stats rather than by what abilities it had access to, which basically sets RDM as the magic/melee hybrid rather than a caster.

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thus a very poor fit for GLA which has 0 magic.

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GLA actually does have magic, more than MRD, in fact. Flash and Circle of Scorn are both explicitly magical attacks (Flash even uses MP) and Riot Blade returns MP. It's still not suited to getting RDM, but it has nothing to do with GLA not being magical enough; it has everything to do with GLA simply not having anything in common with RDM as far as equipment goes.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

GLA actually does have magic, more than MRD, in fact. Flash and Circle of Scorn are both explicitly magical attacks (Flash even uses MP) and Riot Blade returns MP. It's still not suited to getting RDM, but it has nothing to do with GLA not being magical enough; it has everything to do with GLA simply not having anything in common with RDM as far as equipment goes.

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GLD is 1 handed blades, which currently incorporates everything from daggers to broadswords. It *could* incorporate rapier type weapons also if they felt like it. Bucklers are also a classification of shields. RDM may be able to use those but not kite or tower shields. As far as equipment, it's perfectly acceptable to limit RDM armor to high end MNK type equiptment and not allow them to wear heavy plate. A similar thing happens with SCH. SCH can wear healing gear that is usable by CNJ/WHM but not by its base class ACN. It is not allowed to wear high end caster gear that is usable by ACN/SMN. Don't really need to change any sub i50 gear.

Doesn't mean they're going to add it as a GLD sub-job instead of its own class/job, but it could be easily.

In the current Tank/DPS/Healer format, RDM would likely be a DPS (melee/caster hybrid) that would fill a role similar to BRD. It should, at bare minimum, be given "Refresh" so that it is interchangeable with the BRD. Refresh should function similar to Mage's Ballad, where it comes with a cost to the RDM himself (either debuffs his DPS, or costs himself a lot of mana which might limit his DPS in some way).

Flash could also be changed (with RDM job crystal) to apply a debuff similar to Foe's Requiem, allowing for BRD/RDM to be more interchangeable.

If RDM tank: 30 CNJ/15 GLA.

BLU, however, would need to get enemy skills. Bad Breath being the top-tier skill. I'd probably say 30 THM/15PGL. The way to get said skills would be through Job quests and maybe some off-hand quests? (Usually requiring X amount of HQ enemy body pieces to turn in).

There are many ways Red Mage could work, and I have a feeling they might be the first true hybrid, to the point of they can even select dps/healer/tank in the dungeon que, and you need to build them to a more specialized version, whether it's melee dps with casting enfire/enstone/etc on their equipment, or range dps with fire, ice, lightning spells, or healer, or even tank with phalanx and stoneskin and other things.. They will probably be a very hard class to master.


But I believe they will make them based off a new class at first, and then sub between red mage and blue mage.. Maybe they would start as a green mage (getting mostly buffs and debuffs) then can advance into blue mage or red mage.. in which blue mage get's the enemy skills and melee attacks, but they have to learn the ability, don't have to be targetted, but have a random chance to learn an ability they see someone in their party being hit by.

Red mages on the other hand start getting multiple abilites as they level to be a hybrid, but very hard to master. They would have different stances to determine what their spells and attacks do.. for example melee stance so their spells are cast on their sword.. again enfire, enstone.. or healer stance and their spells heal instead, caster stance and their spells are well attack spells, and tank stance in which their spells increase their tanking, survivability, enemity, and things like that. They would freely change stances (which might cause a problem with trolls queing as tank stance red mage joining dungeon then switching to dps stance or something, but sometimes you just have to deal with trolls)

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

There are many ways Red Mage could work, and I have a feeling they might be the first true hybrid, to the point of they can even select dps/healer/tank in the dungeon que

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Yoshi has actually referred to a potential "hybrid" role and explained that it would take the place of DPS within group compositions. It would not be able to role as a fully effective character in any of the roles, nor truly supplant a tank or healer. It would basically be a slightly subpar DPS (80-90% of a real DPS) that can swap to tank or healer functionality for short bursts when needed. Any class that could queue as any role would be monumentally borked and ripe for trolling/idiocy (imagine all of the newbies queueing up as everything if they were DPS spec'd/geared for leveling, assuming that they could actually be a tank or healer; we've already seen how often this happens in every other MMO that allows for queuing as multiple roles; they *always* have to assign restriction to prevent the inevitable idiocy from occurring).

I prefer that rdm blu and any other job would have a new class and no be branched of the old classes.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I prefer that rdm blu and any other job would have a new class and no be branched of the old classes.

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I'mo not so sure about this. The base classes we currently have are pretty basic. What I mean by this is, they are the classical classes that a lot of games base their trinity off of. The only one that I can think of that is not currently present is some kind of rogue/thief class, which may soon be changing.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I'mo not so sure about this. The base classes we currently have are pretty basic. What I mean by this is, they are the classical classes that a lot of games base their trinity off of. The only one that I can think of that is not currently present is some kind of rogue/thief class, which may soon be changing.

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The thing is for me i only see gla and mrd getting new tanks jobs and not dps or even less healer. Their basic skills have enmity in it. Sure they can make an ability for the job to negate the enmity but that is wasting 1 skill from the 5 skill we get for getting a job. Rather see new classes with wholle new skills/traits and new jobs than using the existing classes and just add 5 more skills for the new jobs. And also dont forget we share attribute point with the class and we would have the whole sch/smn sharing dilema that we have right now.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

Sure they can make an ability for the job to negate the enmity but that is wasting 1 skill from the 5 skill we get for getting a job.

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Yoshi has said that they can quite easily remove the high enmity tags when you swap from a tank job to a DPS job, mostly likely replacing one or more of them with positional bonuses. The biggest problem with turning GLA into a DPS is that it has the most boring rotation imaginable; it would be almost impossible to make a compelling DPS job out of GLA. On top of that, GLA and MRD have too much tank functionality in their class: they've got a large survivability CD suite and comparatively small DPS CD suites. A GLA or MRD DPS job would be miles more survivable than any other DPS because of that. Before 2.1, MRD could have gotten a DPS job, but the changes to the MRD CD suite, even though they were necessary for WAR, basically prevent MRD from getting a DPS job now.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

The thing is for me i only see gla and mrd getting new tanks jobs and not dps or even less healer. Their basic skills have enmity in it. Sure they can make an ability for the job to negate the enmity but that is wasting 1 skill from the 5 skill we get for getting a job. Rather see new classes with wholle new skills/traits and new jobs than using the existing classes and just add 5 more skills for the new jobs. And also dont forget we share attribute point with the class and we would have the whole sch/smn sharing dilema that we have right now.

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Who says that the dps class of Gladiator has to only have 5 skills? It's assumed that it will be 1 per 5 levels, but it's not written in stone. They could also attach the skill to remove enimity or decrease it by 50% to the soul crystal itself. It would kinda makes sense anyway for Dark Knights off Gladiator, Dark Knights are kinda threat magnets anyway so maybe they would have reduced enimity by 20% enough so they don't end up becoming tanks but not enough that they don't have to watch themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

If you only look at the previous incarnations of classes, no non-magic class is going to do much of anything since the physical attack option has always basically been "attack".

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Blitz, sword art, dual wield, kick, throw, mug, counter... actually there has been quite a few melee related abilities pre-MMO. The closest RDM ever gets to quasi-melee abilities is in FFXI and all their exclusive ones are magic as well (phalanx and enspells), and even in FFXI their non-exclusive weapons skill arsenal isn't stand out compared to the other casters.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

GLA actually does have magic

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Yes, you are correct, my mistake. Still, it is a tiny amount of magic compared to their physical abilities.

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

Who says that the dps class of Gladiator has to only have 5 skills? It's assumed that it will be 1 per 5 levels, but it's not written in stone. They could also attach the skill to remove enimity or decrease it by 50% to the soul crystal itself. It would kinda makes sense anyway for Dark Knights off Gladiator, Dark Knights are kinda threat magnets anyway so maybe they would have reduced enimity by 20% enough so they don't end up becoming tanks but not enough that they don't have to watch themselves.

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Is not writing in stone but is the pattern. Also people a while back ask for a levi-egi for smn but yoshi said that it would be unfair for the other jobs that smn get a new skill while other dont so is basically 5 new skill for a new job branching from a existing class.

As much as I love RDM, I don't see how it would work in this game the way it's currently designed with the armoury system and the very tiny amount of spells in this game.

I'd really love to see a fourth role open up for all the possible classic jobs like red mage and dancer.