Elfin Bow in Coil, or, Minimum BRD Accuracy for turns 1-4?

Hi all,

I recently got the Elfin Bow, and I'm wondering how low I can reasonably go for ACC on Coil Turn 1-4 . My relic+1 is on standby for turn 5 most certainly. I know the number 472 is all over various forums, but is it /really/ required for turns 1-4? Could I go from a 100% hit rate to 99.5% hit and enjoy the whopping DET and CRT bonus the Elfin Bow gives? I've been hearing less than that is fine for T1-4.

Anyways, just looking for thoughts on what will do the most good for my Coil static. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Darwyn_Ulondarr

Hi all,

I recently got the Elfin Bow, and I'm wondering how low I can reasonably go for ACC on Coil Turn 1-4 . My relic+1 is on standby for turn 5 most certainly. I know the number 472 is all over various forums, but is it /really/ required for turns 1-4? Could I go from a 100% hit rate to 99.5% hit and enjoy the whopping DET and CRT bonus the Elfin Bow gives? I've been hearing less than that is fine for T1-4.

Anyways, just looking for thoughts on what will do the most good for my Coil static. Thanks.

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BLM view point, from T2 until T5, anything less than 432=guaranteed miss. After weeks of testing, it is only T1 that has low Acc, T2-T5 Have the same accuracy cap. I tested T2 for 5 weeks using 430 Acc and I was missing every single week on one of the nodes.

So yeah I imagine other jobs are the same.

I appreciate the input. Better a bit less crit and DET than a miss, which is a significant damage loss. Or missed silence.

Uh...ignore the BLM (sorry Neo, but the acc-cap is a bit higher for physical damage). Acc cap for BLM/SMN is I believe 435 for T5, and slightly lower (432 maybe) for the rest of Coil. I'm not 100% on it, since I'm not a caster main myself, but its in the mid-low 430s.

472 is a good target IMO. There's a huge discussion about Acc, but for basics that's a good point to aim for initially (IMO). Especially in places where you need to ensure something hits (like Silences on ADS). The Flank/Back acc cap IS lower than 472, even in T5; the only place you would need higher acc is on the snake adds during Divebombs...and as a BRD, you can Rain of Death them to remove that (somewhat)

For the record, I use 470 acc for T5 currently (want to lower it too, just need Coil to give me my drops finally) and the only place I noticed any of my skills or auto attacks missing was on the big snake during Divebombs (attacking from the front and all)...and it really doesn't matter if you miss there at all.

In my personal experience as a brd in coil T1-4 I've had little to no issue with accuracy using elfin bow (gear/food dependent still to stay within ~465-470 range acc wise), but for t5 I always switch weapon to meet the accuracy requirement (482). With the high accuracy requirement, and how the fight is, missed hits are just a bit too important in that fight as it currently stands.

The biggest risk in T1/T2 is a missed silence, but to date I've yet to see that occur and have Ilvl90 options in all slots to adjust stats.

I use elfin bow in T5, I never miss on Twin or Asclepius. My build for using elfin bow in T5 http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LZ2E

PS I have roughly 20 or so turn 5 kills.

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Originally Posted by Emblemelite

I use elfin bow in T5, I never miss on Twin or Asclepius. My build for using elfin bow in T5 http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LZ2E

PS I have roughly 20 or so turn 5 kills.

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I literally run that exact same build, minus the deviled eggs because 472 is acc cap. I prefer buttons in a blanket. 10 kills on Twin with no accuracy issues. Ever.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

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Brother, you misunderstood me while he did not ^^. I know the Acc for physical, we were talking about lowering his Acc for earlier turns so I gave him "BLM view point" not the Acc cap for physical :). In short he wanted to lower his Acc below 472 and get away with it for T2+. I was explaining from my view point why he should not :).

Edit: To clarify my statement better, I as a BLM will miss in T2 if I go under 435 Acc to 430. I imagine you (OP) as Bard will have the same issue if you do T2+ with 465 Acc.

His question was about lowering his Acc in earlier Turns, not if the Acc cap is 470-472 or not :).

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

His question was about lowering his Acc in earlier Turns, not if the Acc cap is 470-472 or not .

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Ultimately, the two questions are one in the same. "Am I able to lower my Accuracy?" completely depends on the real accuracy caps.

You want to be at the acc cap to ensure no misses when you need to hit most (like silences), but still be doing the most damage you can do. The Acc cap IS actually lower than 472, even in T5, for melee DPS (Acc caps are positional; flank is lower than front, and back is lower than flank. Since melee need to make sure they are in position for our attacks they can, and do, have lower acc caps than tanks [using the flank cap specifically]). It is probably best for BRD to use tank accuracy (the 472/483 numbers) as may just don't care where they stand as long as they are avoiding cleaves and AoEs; however, if a BRD is willing to move to the flank or back and make sure they stay there, they can, safely, lower their accuracy. (HOWEVER, during T2 it IS probably better to overdo accuracy, as ADS is a jerk and likes to turn randomly at times).

You need to find the numbers that work for you in the end. 472 is a good start point...but it is not *the* accuracy cap, as you can go lower and still have no misses if you put some positional effort in during fights

EDIT: I need sleep, repeating myself too much in one post and not even realizing it >.>

I use Elfin in Coil (however, I have T5 pants, so it makes Acc a lot easier).

Recent testing has proven that accuracy caps are positional and that the 472 number is a misnomer, correct?
From what I have seen recently I thought the consensus was:
435 Rear
455 Flank
480+ Front

Mages aim for 435 because all their attacks are "omnidirectional", so they always count as rear.
For any physical damage class though (including Bard), as long as you pay attention and keep yourself away from attacking from the front then you can drop all the way down to 455 Accuracy and be fine throughout coil, even turn 5.

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Originally Posted by Bardo

For any physical damage class though (including Bard), as long as you pay attention and keep yourself away from attacking from the front then you can drop all the way down to 455 Accuracy and be fine throughout coil, even turn 5.

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I need to give you a FUC**NG THANK YOU. I'm really tired of these bards with 47X acc telling the World how this is REQUIRED to kill Twin. My miss rate for P1 and P2 is something like 0.2-0.1% (including adds), 0.1-0.2% against Twin (I'm around 450 acc). Against the snakes, I probably missing something like 2-3% of my hits, but noone cares about my DPS during P3 (mana song during the first set of dive bombs, I remove it when the healer have full mana and switch to Requiem after the LB). Many bards don't even know how to position themselves to attack the conflags from behind .....

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Originally Posted by Bardo

I use Elfin in Coil (however, I have T5 pants, so it makes Acc a lot easier).

Recent testing has proven that accuracy caps are positional and that the 472 number is a misnomer, correct?
From what I have seen recently I thought the consensus was:
435 Rear
455 Flank
480+ Front

Mages aim for 435 because all their attacks are "omnidirectional", so they always count as rear.
For any physical damage class though (including Bard), as long as you pay attention and keep yourself away from attacking from the front then you can drop all the way down to 455 Accuracy and be fine throughout coil, even turn 5.

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Excellent post. Thank you.

this directional accuracy sounds like a real load of garbage, my last 5 had a 439 bard with elvin miss 6% of the fight

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Originally Posted by monkguy

this directional accuracy sounds like a real load of garbage, my last 5 had a 439 bard with elvin miss 6% of the fight

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Do you (and your BRD) know what directional accuracy means?

He'd miss a lot UNLESS he was directly behind Twin the entire time with that Acc. Any hits on the Flank or Front can (and will eventually) miss.

we spend 90% of the fight behind twin, theres no way hed miss if it was true, let alone have 93.xx% accuracy

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Originally Posted by monkguy

we spend 90% of the fight behind twin, theres no way hed miss if it was true

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Are you looking at JUST Twin, or the ENTIRE fight? If you are looking at the entire fight, my guess is that the misses occurred during the first phase with the dragons (probably not a lot, just if the tank was dragging them depending on where the Liquid Hells were thrown) and the snake phase, where you are generally facing them. This is just a shot in the dark though, since I'm not looking at the actual raw data.

Also, are you 100% sure that you were directly behind her and all the adds (in the empty part of the circle) 100% of time? This goes for Conflags, Dreads, Scourges and both Snakes, along with Twin. Are you sure you weren't sitting on the border between flank and back at any time? Sitting on the border, or a hair to one side, does not always ensure you are where you think you are.

Also...there is no way, absolutely none, that everyone is directly behind Twin during most of the fight (not counting MT here because that's just impossible). Not with Twisters and Dreads, not with Liquid Hell placement there if you somehow are. Maybe during parts of phases 1 and 2, but 4 and 5? If you are talking you and the BRD...its possible, but you can't be 100% sure that you are both behind her (Twisters say hi). Also...if everyone is there...guess where you're attacking the Dreads from...hint: its not the back...

I've done T5 as BRD with 440 ACC or less and never had lower than 98.8/9%, so him being at 94% (If even true), was a matter of his fault for doing something crazy. If you pay attention to your positioning, let alone specifically timed Hawks Eye usage for when you couldn't get behind something (not necessary, just saying if you wanted to), its not an issue at all.

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Originally Posted by Emblemelite

I use elfin bow in T5, I never miss on Twin or Asclepius. My build for using elfin bow in T5 http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LZ2E

PS I have roughly 20 or so turn 5 kills.

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Wow you killed Twintania 1 month before Blue Gatr and Patch 2.1, tell me more how accurate your counting is

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Originally Posted by Bardo

I use Elfin in Coil (however, I have T5 pants, so it makes Acc a lot easier).

Recent testing has proven that accuracy caps are positional and that the 472 number is a misnomer, correct?
From what I have seen recently I thought the consensus was:
435 Rear
455 Flank
480+ Front

Mages aim for 435 because all their attacks are "omnidirectional", so they always count as rear.
For any physical damage class though (including Bard), as long as you pay attention and keep yourself away from attacking from the front then you can drop all the way down to 455 Accuracy and be fine throughout coil, even turn 5.

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Would bard AoEs such as wide volley and rain of death be considered omnidirectional? Quick nock (likely no given it's cone shaping)?

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Originally Posted by Darwyn_Ulondarr

Would bard AoEs such as wide volley and rain of death be considered omnidirectional? Quick nock (likely no given it's cone shaping)?

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Probably quite the opposite. I know enemy AOE assumes you're facing the mob, so I'm guessing it also assumes they're facing us.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Probably quite the opposite. I know enemy AOE assumes you're facing the mob, so I'm guessing it also assumes they're facing us.

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Good to know. Thank you.

I've done T5 with Elfin Bow, putting me at around a mere 440 accuracy, and it didn't significantly cost me dps. In fact it's usually slightly increased it, but at the potential and just slightly fearsome cost of missing against Conflags [moving to the north side can fix that] and Deathknights [usually flank]. If you have to sacrifice upper level (no-accuracy) accessories to equip though, save yourself the bother and use the Zenith. You can often get one more ability off under Raging Strikes / BFB benefit with Zenith's skill speed increase that would be impossible with Elfin, depending on your accessories.

It's definitely a dps increase to switch for T1 and T4 where you can better benefit from multiple target's worth of DoTs and subsequent Bloodletter resets (both snakes, both knights, both rooks, and so forth). Since there's no such benefit on Turn 2 and you have the possibility of missing a silence, it's best to stay capped for that.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It's definitely a dps increase to switch for T1 and T4 where you can better benefit from multiple target's worth of DoTs and subsequent Bloodletter resets (both snakes, both knights, both rooks, and so forth). Since there's no such benefit on Turn 2 and you have the possibility of missing a silence, it's best to stay capped for that.

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Makes good sense. Thank you.