Ok so I just did this quest ( still waiting to kill him though) and it stated that king mmo ogle was there with the twelve from the start or something of the sort. So even if they where subservient of the twelve, he is non-the less a god. Is this correct?
Moogle mog predates history?
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03-19-2014, 07:21 PMSolusekRoMoogle mog predates history?
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03-19-2014, 09:32 PMLinadae
Not exactly. I think Moggle Mog and the rest of the Moogles are more like angels, not true deities but servants somewhere between humans and the Twelve when it comes to godliness.
Moggle was just the leader of the Moogles at the time. He wasn't worshiped by the Moogles until he sacrificed himself to lower his people to Hydaelyn. -
03-19-2014, 10:52 PMUlricCraftGood King Moggle Mog XII in FFXIV:ARR
Good King Moggle Mog is not a God.
Moogles were the servants of the Gods in a time long ago.
War broke out between the Gods, and the Moogles decided to leave.
The distance between the heavens and Eorzea was too great for any one Moogle to survive without assistance.
Good King Moggle Mog XII had a rope made, the longest rope created ever.
He sacrificed himself by holding onto one end of the rope as the Moogles descended.
The reason he is summoned in the Twelveswood is due to fear. Fear that the dangers threatening the area could not be contained by the might of the Mooglesmen alone.
Just imagine... If Moogles age (do they?) GKMM was only put into the throne by whatever Mooglerealm monarchy system they had, if as much time has passed as suggested, GKMM is long since dead.
So think, what are they summoning?
Do not mistake GKMM for a 'primal' or 'God' because he is summonable. The way crystals and summoning works is very similar to the way Terry Pratchet's Discworld works in terms of belief.
"If enough people believe it, then it can happen."
Enough crystal and they summoned a manifestation of the king.
Like we should all wish as hard as we can so SE will give us more content. :)
tl;dr: I'm not sure what you're asking, but Good King Moggle Mog XII is NOT a God. He is a revered KING.
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03-20-2014, 12:04 AMYoohre_WildRiver
as far as i know GKMM is a moogle folk story. the GKMM summoned is a manifestation of the aether. moogle in fear needed a hero to defend them and like UlricCraft said, "If enough people believe it, then it can happen." so they collected crystal and summoned their idea of a hero based on folk stories.
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03-20-2014, 02:51 AMAnonymoose
In addition to the above, it's tough to draw lines between aetherial entities. Is there a true difference between summoning an aetherial entity by focusing on belief in a mathematical construct (Carbuncle), focusing on belief in a folk tale (Good King Moggle Mog XIV), and focusing on belief in a god (primals)? We're told the primals have essences that are drawn from the aether, where the others seem to lack these, but what are these essences? Were they created by something or someone once upon a time - perhaps by true gods? Or were they simply generated in the Lifestream by the accumulation of generations of zealous beliefs and memories from which we can draw illusions of gods - false icons (or, eikons)? How far does it go?
In the Praetorium battle, Gaius implies that this practice could even extend to summoning our concept of the Twelve and all that would appear before us are false gods who will do our bidding so long as we feast them on aether. Is that all the Twelve ever were? Folk stories of misunderstood history, perhaps that of great Allagan figures? When Louisoix summoned them, did he simply tap into recent flood of prayers poured into locations with a strong aetherial presence - prayers he requested people offer to those locations - and use it to make it look like the Twelve themselves had something to do with it?
We might never know how to separate them. For all I know, the Elemental Spirits of Gridania are just sprites modified by belief.
We've got a lot of digging to do before we can conclusively say what's what - including Moggle.
For now, though, we're told he's myth made manifest - a folk story. -
03-20-2014, 03:00 AMJonah_Greymont
While I've read these things and pondered them for months, for some reason Moose's post made me really excited about what's going on in Hydaelyn right now.
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03-20-2014, 05:56 AMLucke
What I don't get is why do we have to kill him? Moogles are not war-like, so what do we have to fear if the Moogles summon their king?
The way I understand it is the moogles didn't really do anything to protect themselves from all the disasters. They were lucky that the adventurers were there to save the world. The Moogles summon thier king so they can actively protect themselves instead of relying on adventurers.
This doesn't seem to concern us. I read that as moogles are allies with us. Gridania seems to be allies with moogles so why to they want the king killed?
*Is it because the moogles use crystals like the other beastmen which will in tern hurt the planet?
*Is it because the King remained with the 12 and that their constant fighting corrupted the king to be more war-like?
Basically, why are we fighting moogles? I thought they were our friends =( -
03-20-2014, 07:00 AMAnonymooseMainly because he's not literally Good King Moggle Mog, the benevolent Moogle King from the folk tales. He may not be a full-on primal, but he's still an aetherial coalescent summon that will drain the land of it's aether and react violently to anything that threatens his supply of it, regardless of how he acts otherwise. He even isolates and "tempers" the Mooglesguard - though his "tempering" is seemingly quite different than that of Ifrit. Usually we'd have to put down anyone tempered, but the Moogles were able to get by with a firm thrashing and a sincere apology. Is that just a matter of King Moggle Mog not having the belief of hundreds if not thousands of worshippers? Or does he lack that essence we hear about in reference to "true" primals? Who knows. But by slaying him we freed the Mooglesguard of his control, restored the aether to the land, and prevented him from building an army that would surely have become aggressive and expansionist within the Twelveswood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucke
That they were our friends is probably why we assented to the request that we not just outright kill the Seven Jesters. -
03-20-2014, 08:09 AMSkies
To note, btw
We are not there to stop the King himself to begin with- We're there to stop the Mogglesguard, you can see them as war veterans that have really gone berserk, more or less. -
03-20-2014, 08:14 AMlackofwords
I don't recall reading that he associated with the Twelves, not even in-game... perhaps I've missed something?
Source material on the old lodestone;
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...233e750c07c9f8
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num04.htmlQuote:
Good King Moggle Mog XII Cometh! (12/12/2011)
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Grand Companies of Eorzea Page Updated! (02/02/2012)
Return of the Good King
The latest edition of The Raven, Gridania’s leading tabloid, has just gone to print, featuring as its centerpiece a special report examining fantastical claims that a moogle myth has come to life.
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03-20-2014, 08:23 AMAnonymooseI don't remember it being referenced directly in the game, either. It is in that second resource, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by lackofwords
Quote:
The legend holds that, in a time long forgotten, the moogles dwelled in the heavens alongside the Twelve. However, a great war broke out among the gods, and the celestial realm was laid to waste. Upon seeing this, the reigning moogle monarch, Good King Moggle Mog XII, lowered his subjects down a rope—the longest ever woven—to the realm of mortals, that mooglekind might again know peace.
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03-23-2014, 04:33 AMEmpressia
I have a suspicion that Primals are basically living manifestation of negative emotion born from the cumulation of negative emotion form certain race and thus take form in an image which is the closest to the imagination of the host race.
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03-23-2014, 08:09 AMLucke
Let's play a game of FACT or FICTION! Mostly because I'm still slightly confused.
FACT or FICTION:
Moggle Mog "exists". Not as an aetheric being, but exists as much as the moogles exist.
FACT or FICTION:
King was a benevolent and very kind ruler.
FACT or FICTION:
The moogles being lowered in this picture are the actual Mooglesguard we fight:
FACT or FICTION:Quote:
Originally Posted by UlricCraft
From the lore standpoint, the King is just chillin' up in the heavens looking for a way down. His moogles summon him. The King we fight is their actual King, not some apparation. When we kill him, he simply travels back to his Home Point up in the heavens.
I guess the bottom line is, is the whole Lore behind the KIng, just some fairy tale for Young moogles and children alike? Or, does the King actually, truly exist? -
03-23-2014, 08:44 AMAnonymooseWhat we fought was an aetherial coalescent being similar to a primal that was created by a summoning magick similar to that which summons primals. Does that mean their entire faith is false, though? Not necessarily. However, even the moogles believe that Moggle's sacrifice cost him his life; one even says, "may his mighty soul rest in peace," when speaking of him. After all, if moogles don't die even in the heavens, what happened to the first eleven kings who chose the regnal name Moggle Mog? I think the Moogles assumed that they were summoning the spirit of one of the greatest, most powerful moogles in their history books back to the corporeal realm, and what they got was a pseudo-primal that was most probably not the actual figure from the stories. We don't know if those stories have any basis in fact; we don't know if there are really heavens or what really dwells there or if the Twelve are even truly gods. It's all faith and folk tales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucke
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03-29-2014, 01:22 AMdubstephalflifeI just ran the intro quest for this last night (I haven't finished the trial yet). The conversation between Kuplo Kopp and the mooglesgard seem to imply that the false GKMM wants to commit mass genocide, purging the Shroud of his enemies. I don't recall them saying who his enemies are (elementals, hyur, elezen, jumping djiggas), but it's probably not a good idea to let him go purging enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucke