What this game needs is NOT more dungeons

Let me say right off the bat this isn’t whining about lack of content. This is a thread by a player that legitimately loves ARR, and legitimately wants ARR to improve and prosper. So i want to offer some constructive criticism.

On to the topic at hand. Like title says, what this game needs is not more dungeons. It’s more diversity and innovation. What I mean by this, is that by the time you reach end game, you only have three gameplay choices: dungeons, primals, or pvp. (I’m counting coil as a dungeon) So let’s break that down. Primals are definitely great. Short battles, but extreme difficulty. Gotta love them. Dungeons, well they are part of any MMO. It’s nice to have them, but nearly impossible to make them the flagship of an MMO. And lastly there’s pvp. PVP is amazing because it is always a fresh challenge since you are facing against other people. But seriously, there is only one map and one game mode.

Anyways, diversity and innovation. This game needs something of its own. Other than the fact that it allows you to play all classes with one character, I can’t think of a single other thing that this game has that no other mmo does. SO SO many clones out there. How do we justify that ARR is not a clone of other mmos? It needs something that makes it unique.

As for diversity, add different gameplay options to the game. Don’t just keep adding more dungeons. There are so many great ideas for different gameplay out there, it’s unbelievable that ARR is limited to dungeons, one pvp map and mode, and primals. Here are some suggestions:

How about an arena or coliseum? A place where the waves of monsters are endless and you compete to set a record of how far you can go. And make it so that every week there is a different challenge, like no armor or poison always on. Imagine the possibilities.

How about adding more maps and game modes to pvp? Maybe modes like castle siege, or owning territory. I know capture the flag is being worked on.

Maybe some persistent events. Even if they are instanced, how about making events that last hours and players come and go and progress happens. Have some kick ass event where the surrounding environment, nature and buildings, change based on how well you are doing in the event.

What about a game mode where you can use vehicles or weapons (not your class weapon -_-) you crafted? This would have an added bonus of stimulating crafting economy.

Why not do some collaborative gameplay between DoW/DoM and DoH/DoL? It could be something like warriors or mages protect or escort DoH/L. it’d be dope to have to find a safe place and craft in the middle of a fight.

Even if the ideas i presented here are terrible, please at least take out of it the big picture i was trying to present: We need more innovation and diversity.

And if anyone posts their own ideas, ill make sure to add them to the OP for everyone to see.

EDIT:
I loved this idea so much, im posting it in the OP. Props for the idea:

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

A dungeon that FORCES players to alt. Where one fight needs more than 2 tanks, some other cant be tanked at all, some enemy can only be damaged by ranged dps, some reflect magic dmg, some fights requires additional 2 healers etc. Just make it necessary to complete every single fight with same group of players, so that u have to change job, not player.

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I can be partially on board with this. Some decent mentions.

I couldn't care less for more boring hallways myself. Design some long term progression quests or mechanics into the open world. Coming to mind..... trial weapon quests in FF XI for example. Not to say I want a copy/paste of that, just something along those lines. Something that takes some time, in the world instead of instanced hallway, with a worthwhile reward at the end, that we can do with friends without being limited to 8 people. Things along these lines at least for those of us that like open world objectives. This game definitely needs more world involvement.

Dungeons are the main reason I play MMOs. Working together as a group to beat content, playing your role, thats the main draw for me. I've never really understood the boner people have for open world content personally, but I can agree that more options are good.

Also I think frontlines PvP is scheduled for 2.3.

I also have a feeling we won't see any complex or innovative new stuff til they drop PS3 support.

More diverse content and a more complex battle system. Oh and interesting trash mobs that just don't do easy to dodge aoes.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/d212cad2d...3c3o1_1280.jpg

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Originally Posted by BearGrylls

Dungeons are the main reason I play MMOs. Working together as a group to beat content, playing your role, thats the main draw for me. I've never really understood the boner people have for open world content personally, but I can agree that more options are good.

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It's a minority opinion and SE has good reason to believe most players prefer instanced dungeons they can kick back with a few hours a night. Even though it's fashionable to post about the terminal decline the game is in, something that is posted in every MMO forum (especially the ones Blizzard runs, ironically), the overwhelming reception and continued success of ARR provides ample positive reinforcement to SE of their current design decisions.

http://2p.com/5080929_1/Final-Fantas...-flamedust.htm

See this, which flies in the face of every forum doomsayer. The 1.8 number is thrown around a lot, but 500k a day when we are before a major patch is something to be happy about. Note the wording "passed", meaning it's actually on the increase. People as a majority like the dungeon theme park mmo format, it's just that a minority post on forums about it.

Also it's always an unfair question to ask if someone is for more options. No one is against more options, but SE like all companies has finite resources so it's a question that ignores the fact that they have to choose. I would like the world + a unicorn too.

nty, all don't put effort into anything till i get mah gold saucer.

I'm all for more options (like SarcasmMisser said, how can anyone be against options?) but dungeons are some of my favorite parts of MMOs and are what I'm most excited about in 2.2. ShinigamiB06's suggestions are all very cool and I would be interested to see them implemented, but its hard to focus on your good suggestions when I feel the content I like is under attack because of your title :P

Personally, I love doing quests. I would like more quests, not dailies perse, just more quests that weren't gated behind parts of the story.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

the overwhelming reception and continued success of ARR provides ample positive reinforcement to SE of their current design decisions.

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No offense really, but..... there has been no proven "overwhelming reception and continued success" just yet. They posted one quarterly report stating that ARR sold well, as I would expect with most newly launched games. The initial launch window is "typically" the highest in sales, which was why XIV 1.xx was a clearly evident dose of failure right out of the gate. Will have to wait and see what their numbers look like at their next report. The concerning thing being the fact they haven't announced surpassing 1.9 million people in.... how many months now? 500k daily users isn't terrible, but it's hardly an "overwhelming reception". Especially considering that a portion of those numbers are just RMT.

What I would be more curious to see, is peak concurrent users as of say.... Thursday or Friday after most people have finished their "weekly" checklist. It has to be obvious that SE will use the absolute best numbers they can in their statements. Their wording is used to paint the 'best' scenario they can to give the image of success and popularity. Sad thing is, that the best they have painted so far, isn't terribly impressive. Seeing the game's price slashed after such a short period isn't exactly reassuring either. Low price = Low demand. Seeing Sony raising the price of their PS4 in Canada in response to it's high demand. Or retailers having raised the price of WoW shortly after it's launch to slow the sales.

In any case, SE really needs to cater to more than just the "hardcore" or just the "casual". No mmo since 2003 has matched WoW's design approach success. Actually.... no mmo since 2003 has even been successful using WoW's theme park design. Successful being, able to maintain their subscription design intact. F2P, or outright shutdown has been the end result of them all.

As for Blizzard's forums being polluted with negativity as well? Well.... their numbers are virtually cut in half from it's peak success. I'd say the backlash on the forums should have, and should currently, be taken seriously.

I like the endless wave of mobs idea. Promotes role improvement for regular play too. Gives to thoughts like: Grab aggro quickly. Pull as much DPS as you can before the next wave. This fight doesn't ever end. I have to use my MP sparingly. I think we need this mode in addition to more turns of Coil per update. I do like the new currency that is coming though. It will provide many with stuff to do way past 2.3.

ok here goes:

1. change the market board to an auction house... knowing every listed price when you list an item is seriously hurting the economy too because it drives prices to the floor. I would also implement a tax for listing items initially.
2. get rid of gear drops from dungeons and leves... there is no need for a market if there is no demand for anything crafted or farmed.
3. bring back NM's and drops from them.. they were fun to farm and camp against other people especially hnms
4. give more incentive to do dungeons.. by the time people are end game from fate grinding they have 0 clue how to play the job/class to end game standards.
5. open world real xp for parties and open world exploration would be awesome. there is really like 1 reason to even look at anything you guys made... the hunting log..
6. make craftable gear just as powerful as myth gear etc.
7. make weapons/gear that take months or even years to build...

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It's a minority opinion and SE has good reason to believe most players prefer instanced dungeons they can kick back with a few hours a night. Even though it's fashionable to post about the terminal decline the game is in, something that is posted in every MMO forum (especially the ones Blizzard runs, ironically), the overwhelming reception and continued success of ARR provides ample positive reinforcement to SE of their current design decisions.

http://2p.com/5080929_1/Final-Fantas...-flamedust.htm

See this, which flies in the face of every forum doomsayer. The 1.8 number is thrown around a lot, but 500k a day when we are before a major patch is something to be happy about. Note the wording "passed", meaning it's actually on the increase. People as a majority like the dungeon theme park mmo format, it's just that a minority post on forums about it.

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SE has been saying "1.X million players!" for several months. Considering that last September, the game was at about 1.5 million registered users and 600k subscribers (source: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ne...14q2slides.pdf), it's likely that the "1.8 million players" is the total number of box/licenses sold.

My guess is that SE isn't going to be talking about the total number of people paying a subscription fee outside of their financial reports, because saying "1.8 million players!" sounds a lot nicer and people often confuse it for the total number of paying subscribers.

Just conveniently ignore the 500k daily average quoted there, which being an average means it's distributed across all days and being they just reached it is on the increase. What doesn't it tell us? A lot, but way more than forum posts that say nothing people haven't said for years about every mmo ever, including ones that are still around and proving a solid investment.

1. give us walking primals.
2. stop gear skipping and make people have to use current tier to get the next tier.
3. give us a magical gate( for ilevel 75+).. so we can venture to the past and fight in that endless battle at the end of 1.0 but make it a epic open world raid with all the garlean forces/bosses & all the trims in it. (give us the chance to try and defend our land).
4. need more mobs.. ALL level 15+ need to arrgo thus making the world more engaging.
5. slow down the leveling system a tad so gear can be appreciated more.
* more ideas i thought about:
6. give us the bizarre system so we can sell stuff on the market as well as ourselves.
7. give us NM's to drop interesting gear that caters to the glamour system.
8. give us a same world option when using the duty finder so we can play/get to know people that is on our own server.
9. do not lift the myth cap but rather make it so its raised to 900/week so people can grab a any piece or multiple pieces per week. (this is to keep that gate somewhat in tact to pace the game).
10. give a 30 minute penalty to those who pop in and out of the progression. (people who try to skip to the end for the tomes.. that is not a good enough reason to hinder others that's trying to get in and enjoy said content).

I could go on but this should do lol.. this just some things that would help in my opinion. and i know i wont see these things but one can hope right.

edit: if you like any part of this please say so and why ^^.. thank you in advance.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Just conveniently ignore the 500k daily average quoted there, which being an average means it's distributed across all days and being they just reached it is on the increase. What doesn't it tell us? A lot, but way more than forum posts that say nothing people haven't said for years about every mmo ever, including ones that are still around and proving a solid investment.

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I didn't comment on that part of the article because for one thing, I wasn't sure of the context it was being used it (is it the average this week? this month? all time?) but more importantly because the thing I'd be most interested in seeing is the number of people actively paying to play this game, because that is generally the mark of a long term successful MMO. Someone could have brought out a bunch of quotes for SWTOR citing its massive success and argued the success of the theme park model shortly after its release, but now it's not exactly what people would consider the shining example of success. I'm not saying the same will certainly happen to this game, but that we can only wait and see what happens. The theme park design is not fool proof, and it's not unheard of for a game with good or even great success to fizzle out as soon as people get bored or the next big thing comes out.

Check out my thread here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Up-To-Explore.

I talk about Dungeons opening up to explore and there being more things for crafter's to do. Lot's of other people posted there ideas in that thread to check it out.

Camping hnms for claim is a BIG FAT NO. Stockholm syndrome sufferrers, plz do not taint this game with that.

One char - multiple jobs could be made the major selling point of this game. But SE is doing their best to crush this possibility by strictly enforcing 2 tank 2 healer 2 dps composition and job stacking reducing lb. And the top lvl gear lockouts.

What should they do instead? A dungeon that FORCES players to alt. Where one fight needs more than 2 tanks, some other cant be tanked at all, some enemy can only be damaged by ranged dps, some reflect magic dmg, some fights requires additional 2 healers etc. Just make it necessary to complete every single fight with same group of players, so that u have to change job, not player.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

Maybe some persistent events. Even if they are instanced, how about making events that last hours and players come and go and progress happens. Have some kick ass event where the surrounding environment, nature and buildings, change based on how well you are doing in the event.

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http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Seventh_Umbral_Era

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

Why not do some collaborative gameplay between DoW/DoM and DoH/DoL? It could be something like warriors or mages protect or escort DoH/L. it’d be dope to have to find a safe place and craft in the middle of a fight.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...mletdef01.html

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

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First OP, you need to head to this page: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-%28General%29 and post your ideas in the form of a question like "Do you have any plans to add new end game content like ____________?"

Second if Yoshi-P is still following the 2.0 road map and I believe he is, new open end game content will come out in 2.3 and 2.4. They are progress in pace with the story and things are about to get interesting in the land of Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by omfgwtf

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I think you're playing the wrong game. All your suggestions sound a lot like XI. Sure XI had its time, now its time to move on or go back to playing XI, sounds like that's what you really want.

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

A dungeon that FORCES players to alt. Where one fight needs more than 2 tanks, some other cant be tanked at all, some enemy can only be damaged by ranged dps, some reflect magic dmg, some fights requires additional 2 healers etc. Just make it necessary to complete every single fight with same group of players, so that u have to change job, not player.

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THIS. I would live inside this.

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Originally Posted by Woggers

I think you're playing the wrong game. All your suggestions sound a lot like XI. Sure XI had its time, now its time to move on or go back to playing XI, sounds like that's what you really want.

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FFXI isn't the game it was at 75 cap anymore, it's gone through casualization as well. There's nothing to go back to.

FF XIV does need new dungeons, just not ones that require item level 55 as the minimum entry point.

I'm not saying it doesn't need other improvements, but it's possible to burn through the game right now in a month and run out of stuff to do on your main Job.

I appreciate the thoughts behind this thread, but remember, we ushered in the way for ARR to exist by not voting with enough dollars supporting 1.23. The MMO genre is in a weird state of "gimme" right now because they are no longer treated as "another world", they are treated as games. Games you can maybe play with other people. That ambiguity has taken away much of what we "old school" players loved about old mmos.

I mean take a look at any new game that comes out in the MMO genre.

1) people will say it HAS to have endgame (this is a complete shift from our old ways of thinking and playing)

2) people will say it HAS to be innovative and new (this is hard on developers because how can they just come up with 100% new feel for a genre that is steeped in a typical foundation of quest > level > gear > etc.; if they change it too much then it's no longer an MMO)

3) people say it HAS to have what they consider standards in today's mmos: Mounts, Housing, (developer made) Content, Dungeon Finder system (you wouldnt believe the amount of people who view this a standard now). etc.

ARR could implement more of a "another world" feel to the game, but it won't be anytime soon. SE needs to see stabilization of their game first before experimentation.

*when i say "another world" I mean a game where things take time comparable to the world we live in.

I have a rather straight forward and simple solution, just copy and paste several features that WORKED from XI. I know, I know, why don't you just play XI? I may, when I am done typing this.

An auction house was mentioned, exp parties (If you are learning your job and die in an exp pt, no biggie; if you die in a dungeon...lol) past battles (Campaign comes to mind), stop gear skipping (A less painful ToM perhaps), siege (Besieged), open endgame content, NM drops being significant to the game (Crafting in in XI's current relic/af armor upgrade system). Imo, not only should they keep this content updated, but make it an integral part of the game.

Imo, this game is not that far off from greatness. However, it is in dire need of some depth/content.

I don't get why don't they put in better quests?

There has been almost no new questlines added to normal NPCs ever since launch. Give us challenging open world questlines in addition to all these dungeons so that the gameworld has some purpose to exist!

When was the last time you even needed to leave town in this game?

I'm pretty sure every patch until the first expansion is going to follow the same formula:

Even numbered patches:
ilevel cap lifted
New Coil turns

Odd numbered patches
New crystal tower

All patches:
New dungeon
2x hard mode dungeons
New primal
New trial that isn't a primal.
New main scenario quests.

The only surprise is which dungeons we're getting and which primal.

I do like your idea of a coliseum but it needs to be added alongside other content like dungeons and raids too.

I actually felt jealous watching my GF doing the story quests that I had actually done before. How actually wrong is this. Actually.

FF has already fallen into the downward gear spiral theme park mmo to sit alongside all the others. New dungeons! new gears! -repeat-.

Slightly offtopic buuuuut: If the majority of the game were to be spent inside a dungeon, you would think all dungeons would each get their own sound track, not just 5 seconds at the start followed by that crappy tune that gets annoying after 5 mins. EVEN BETTER. Put a jukebox in the dungeon UI which holds all previous uematsu pieces!

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

Why not do some collaborative gameplay between DoW/DoM and DoH/DoL? It could be something like warriors or mages protect or escort DoH/L. it’d be dope to have to find a safe place and craft in the middle of a fight.

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This sounds sick lol. Could be done so easily, in the form of a group leve? omg group leve! lets go!

We had that in 1.0. It was called Hamlet Defense and it was awful.

The biggest issue is that they have to get away from the idea of extending gameplay with super hard boss encounters because the target audience for these games has to make use of matchmaking tools far more than they once did to get things done in a reasonable amount of time. Fights like "The Naval (Extreme)" and Twintania are designed to force individual players to wipe repeatedly in order to learn the fight and thus demands that all members of the party be on the same footing if they ever hope to win. The combination of hard boss fights plus duty finder/party finder creates a situation where the chances of success on those encounters are absolutely abysmal in a random group. So the replayability and reward of the game need to originate from someplace very different.