Transportation - Everything is Instant

I've looked at the threads in this lore subforum and couldn't find it being addressed; Where does the in-game time go when an in-game character travels with a ferry or an airship?
or phrased another way
How can a post-calamity ferry or airship travel from point A to point B instantly?

Before in 1.0, a character actually rode a ferry, which had to take time to travel from Limsa to Vesper Bay. But now that travel is instantaneous, along with all other ferries and airships. This means the time a boat would take to sail from any docks, regardless of the distance traveled, is always less than an Eorzea minute...

How is this possible? At first I thought perhaps they rode on the aether as well. However, they can't possibly be teleporting ships across the aetheryte network, since most of the docks don't even have an aetheryte node next to them.

And if any airship or ferry transportation is instant, why would the denizens of Eorzea even bother using aetherytes any longer? Why wouldn't they expand their airship network rather than relying on pre-placed aetheryte nodes around the world?

It doesn't matter. SE want's it that way now. Nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by lackofwords

Where does the in-game time go when an in-game character travels with a ferry or an airship?

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Lore-wise? For "you," nowhere. The time "existed," you just skipped over it. The same thing happens when you travel between zones (as it did in FFXI); there's actually a good deal of distance between the blackouts (you can see the paths we skip over on the map). Where does the time go for "you relative to others?" The same place it goes when a new player meets Hydaelyn for the first time and Gaius van Baelsar still lives, yet you met her and defeated him in 2013. All MMO time exists in a "Simpsons Bubble," it's not much to dwell on. SE has decided (and I'm inclined to agree) that psychologically feeling like you moved isn't worth a time sink to get from one area to another. People would just teleport and eat the "Didn't Take the Ferry" tax because it's only cheaper if you concede that your time isn't worth anything.

That said, if there was an optional "Scenic Route" that had unique opportunities for content, we could choose to take it for that opportunity. Maybe there'd be a unique FATE that pops on occasion that has reward tokens we could trade in. Maybe there'd be a safe zone to just watch the scenery and take screenshots if you wanted to. Maybe there'd be fishing/skyfishing targets that don't exist anywhere else, or opportunities to kill mobs for crafting mats you can't get anywhere else.

Forcing it to be done, though, just wouldn't do anyone any favors, I think, so we just explain away the fade-to-black as a skipped commute.

Do I sense hostility? Or am I just imagining it.

I'm not suggesting that they should 'force' people to experience the time elapsed naturally, but that is one way of experiencing a passage of time.
If it were a single player game, they could have actually adjusted the game time to match the time actually consumed during the travel, but that can't be done here.
I wonder if there is a better way to address it with lore, rather than just chalking it up as a "Simpsons Bubble".

As Anonymoose pointed out, there's two experiences occurring side by side. The one you're having with other players, and the one you're experiencing alone.
However, since it is a shared persistent world, you can't possibility have everyone in their own time bubbles when there is an actual shared persistent game clock ticking.

When the passage of time doesn't seem to match up with what is occurring in the game according to the mechanics of its universe, it might become a bit jarring. Which is why teleportation is a fantastic way of explaining that gaping hole, and why I was wondering if there was some lore to change the way ferries and airships worked.

It's really a problem that comes mainly when the game world has an actual clock to go by. While games without defined passage of time, would have the player fill in the gaps with their own imagination.

The main story experiences is slightly different matter though, since it's more of shifting the story interpretation as the player is always the hero of the story, while other players are the hero's companions. The point of view only needs to shift. For assisting players that are re-encountering main story fights, it could be retold as reliving the experiencing again. As you can't skip ahead in the story, but can always go back to previous accomplished ones.
Though, I don't know how the game handle new players who didn't experience the calamity.

I just thought it was something interesting to think about, rather than just dismiss as player usability.

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Originally Posted by lackofwords

Do I sense hostility? Or am I just imagining it.

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Mostly just a matter of text not conveying tone very well combined with words like "force," I think, lol. Definitely no hostility implied, just stating a mixture of things previously stated by devs ("Simpsons Time Bubble," development focus on not sinking time on things that aren't actually content) and my own interpretations (which are always open to doubt).

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Originally Posted by lackofwords

I wonder if there is a better way to address it with lore, rather than just chalking it up as a "Simpsons Bubble".

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That part I have no ideas for. I mean, we do know it's a bubble - the game clock implies years pass, but it's always 5 Seventh Umbral Era. I just take it for granted that the cutscenes showing you getting on and off a ship separated by a blackout are an addressing of "what was I doing?" I wonder if it would settle questions like these if there was a middle cutscene during traveling (able to be disabled as the other two are), fading in, showing you sitting on the airship/ferry and /dozing off, and fading out, lol.

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Originally Posted by lackofwords

However, since it is a shared persistent world, you can't possibility have everyone in their own time bubbles when there is an actual shared persistent game clock ticking. When the passage of time doesn't seem to match up with what is occurring in the game according to the mechanics of its universe, it might become a bit jarring.

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I do understand that while another player is spending five minutes running on chocoback across a single zone, in the middle of their travel, you manage to cover all of Eorzea in ten seconds by airship - and that that can be kinda weird. It's just one of those things that always has the same thought progression for me. "That's weird. What else could they do? Is it really that big of a deal? I guess just letting it go is the only logical answer. Why am I still thinking about this?" And then I chalk it up to the Simpsons Bubble that keeps it Year 5 of the Seventh Umbral Era at all times.

Let's say you have a really bad Crystal Tower run and it takes 70 Earth Minutes. In Eorzea, that's 24 hours. How in the world did the party engage in such a demanding physical confrontation for twenty four hours without stopping for food or drink or dying of exhaustion?

Again, I'm not saying this in a condescending or hostile manner; I'm laughing as I say it: if you've got a game mechanic idea that creates a synchronous passage of time for all characters without simultaneously removing aspects of the game that make it more convenient for them as players or your developers as storytellers, thus eliminating the need to diffuse the responsibility of explanation to the suspension of disbelief, MMO developers the world over are stoked to hear it.

This just sounds like an attempt to conflate game mechanics and the in-game reality of the passing of time. There is no such thing as instant travel via airships and ferries -- it's just not physically possible with the level of technology at play, and will never have an explanation in the lore. I'm glad they have those methods of travel at all, since they have stated several times in the game text why people don't just move about via teleportation all the time.

This is probably far less strange than adventures occasionally staying awake for weeks at a time and fighting/running around all the while, or NPCs that never move or sleep and always say the same thing. I don't think he was being hostile, there's some things you just can't really explain in game that happen simply because you're playing a videogame. (Well, you could. But your game would wind up with an incredibly bizarre world and would likely feel like a parody.)

I wanna know the lore behind every archer owning a magical quiver that never runs out of arrows, protects them from harm, etc.

This is so silly to think about since there is no "possible" answer, but now I kinda want someone to make one up.

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Originally Posted by wannabesuperman

I wanna know the lore behind every archer owning a magical quiver that never runs out of arrows, protects them from harm, etc.

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Made using the same Hammerspace technology utilized in machine gun magazines possessed by characters played by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Remember how it was said that the in-game ride would return and you could skip it if you wanted too, along with being able to summon the primals in a Free Company?

I think another item that discourages the whole trip mechanic like in XI... It's a bloody bugger to sync everything. For YEARS, the Bastok Airship and drawbridge were in sync. Then ToAU came out and buggered it up, and after 5 attempts to fix it, they just gave up at trying to sync it. Which was funny the first few times the ship flew through the bridge, but then it just was silly. Also, there's nothing players hate more than missing a transport or ferry only to have to wait 5-7 minutes for the next one.

I like the idea of the trip, but I think if they want to do the whole experience, they'd end up putting it on a schedule which is a time sink. Another thing is that they actually did consider having a trip where you ride the airship, but the resources required to make an aerial Eorzea were considered to be too much. There was also a problem with the 1.0 ferries where it too a long time to fix the water in them.

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Originally Posted by wannabesuperman

I wanna know the lore behind every archer owning a magical quiver that never runs out of arrows, protects them from harm, etc.

This is so silly to think about since there is no "possible" answer, but now I kinda want someone to make one up.

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When your bow breaks, you actually just ran out of arrows and had to buy more from the vendor... er... mender.

If you repaired it yourself, you really just made yourself more arrows. Why the hell did you think you were repairing a bow by sawing it, huh? Your actually fletching arrows with that saw.

Devs should hire you guys to write this stuff down. It's gold.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

If you've got a game mechanic idea that creates a synchronous passage of time for all characters without simultaneously removing aspects of the game that make it more convenient for them as players or your developers as storytellers, thus eliminating the need to diffuse the responsibility of explanation to the suspension of disbelief, MMO developers the world over are stoked to hear it.

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Exactly, it's why I start this thread.
The solution could be either game mechanics or lore. Though, I'm leaning more towards lore.

First, let's look at time itself.
When there's a persistent or passage of a game time, it could be tied into time management task.
Meaning, there's only so much you could do in the day before the day is over. Though, I haven't playing any mmorpg that made me truly feel that I had to management my game time.

As for the passage of time, you could perceived it in two ways, unless if it can be extrapolated from the lore in reference to Earth time.
Time could either be literally moving at the same pace to the perspective of the player, or at a different pace.
This means, if you were able to throw an Earth watch into Eorzea's realm, it could either tick at the same pace, or a different pace.
If it is the same pace as time on Earth then it'll be easier to accept how adventurers aren't getting fatigued from long battles, because the passage of time is the same.

The day night cycle on the other hand deals with something else, or at least as we assume it is still planetary rotation and not something else entirely different.
Day night cycle inherently is used to measure time, but in no sense is it time itself.
All we know is that they measure time by looking at the sun and moon with the book of the Five Ages.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but the passage from Astral Era to Umbral Era does not seem like it's based on any fixed amount of time like a century or millennia would, but instead is an era that is distinguished by an event.
One of those event being what occurs during the main story line.

As I've mentioned before, to keep passage of time consistent in single player games, the game can adjust the time to appear correctly to the time progressed.
If this was applied to mmorpgs, which it isn't, there could be a multitude of other issues to deal with.
-game events scheduled to the game time
-players perceiving the world in different lens
-time consistency throughout the world

Obviously, the other game mechanic being more natural means of transportation is not player friendly. Since no one wants to wait idly while something mundane occurs.
While those idle moments can be filled in with other activities in between, it doesn't have the same appeal as instant/faster transportation.

With each addition of faster transportation, it should make the world feel smaller. Lore could play a role in explaining new means of transportation technology.
Weren't Biggs and Wedge also trying to build better airships as well? Couldn't they somehow weave it in anywhere without it being too convoluted?

It's easy to laugh it off as just another small blemish, but would be more impressive if they've acknowledged it.

This message from Fernehalwes may offer you some insight.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

This message from Fernehalwes may offer you some insight.

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I know this is off topic, but is there a compilation thread somewhere of all these lore posts from the developers? I'd love to be able to read through all the information that has been posted since before 1.0 came out.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

I know this is off topic, but is there a compilation thread somewhere of all these lore posts from the developers? I'd love to be able to read through all the information that has been posted since before 1.0 came out.

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Sort of. By running searches for posts by specific forum users, you can pull up all of Ferne's posts.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

This message from Fernehalwes may offer you some insight.

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I'm assuming you're referring to this;

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Before I move onto question two, allow me to veer off onto a little tangent: there have been several threads about Hydaelyn’s timeline not matching up with Earth’s. If it has been two years since the release of the game, why is it still 1572 in Eorzea at the time of patch 1.23? This is a dilemma faced by a lot of MMOs. To allow everyone that joins the game, regardless of when they do, to experience the full story, there simply has to be a stoppage of time. Okay, not really a stoppage, but more of a time bubble in which a span of about a year is contained. This is why that for the duration of 1.0, Eorzea was in a perpetual 1572. Think of it as the same thing that’s happening in the Simpsons. 23 seasons gone and Lisa’s still 8, Maggie’s still a baby, and the gummy Venus still tastes oh, so sacrelicious. Pushing time along would also mean changing 1000s of lines of NPC dialogue, updating quests, webpages, etc. with every patch. Meaning it would take more than double the time to release updates, and I’m sure most people wouldn’t want to wait. In a book, movie, offline game, a strict timeline can be set without too many complications. In an online title, there are just too many variables, so we ask that you bear with our bending of space-time. It’s for the greater good!

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You could apply the time bubble anywhere, but when it is on a smaller scale, it becomes rather noticeable.

The time bubble mentioned is covering a large span of time, in fact most people probably wouldn't have thought about any inconsistency until they've dropped numbers and figures down.
In the same way, when watching Simpsons you don't really think about how much time has really past over the entire seasons of the every episode. But instead, you innately give into the story they are telling.
That I don't really have much trouble with. It's when the time bubble begins to apply to smaller scales. It becomes a bit more intrusive.

I've just realized there could be another way to apply an illusion of traveling long distances, by fixing different time zones between Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah, by shifting them by about 3~ hours apart (it was 10 minute ferry ride I think).
Although, it still doesn't fix the issue with the game time not changing. Also, causes an issue when teleporting to Limsa, since it is already established that Eorzea is within one time zone.

But, the fantastic thing about writing an explanation into it, is that they don't even have to make really work into any existing notation of Eorzea's universe. It could be anything they desire it to be. Be it comical or not.
And it's a one time script. Like how they've explained away the anima cost of teleport is replaced with gil, even though in essences you're still using anima but not as a game mechanic.